VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion

Withnail said:
There's making a mistake and there's gross incompetence. Forgetting to draw the lines means you're not fit for the job. How would that even happen?
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Exactly. He didn't draw the wrong line like the other dude,.he didn't bloody bother. He deserves to go.
 
He had to go. Not fulfilling the most fundamental part of your job is just the height of incompetence. I'm still really not sure how he can "forget" to draw the line. Was he drunk??
 
GoonerGirly said:
He had to go. Not fulfilling the most fundamental part of your job is just the height of incompetence. I'm still really not sure how he can "forget" to draw the line. Was he drunk??
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There’s simply too much pressure on the refs, they have to get every decision correct (and hopefully getting the decision most pundits and fans agree with because not everyone always agrees re fouls and pens) while doing it at break neck speed, football is just not cut out for it. It’s a fast paced game without the natural breaks and pauses in play.

I’m not excusing him it was a really bad mistake but I doubt he’s just kicking back smoking a cigar while doing it.
 
arnie_ni said:
Then I take no issue.
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Exactly, huge difference between this and refs making a decision but getting it wrong. Anyone saying different just have an agenda. Tbh even without him forgetting to draw the lines in the Arsenal v Brentford game he should've been let go a long time ago, is genuinely terrible at his job.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
There’s simply too much pressure on the refs, they have to get every decision correct (and hopefully getting the decision most pundits and fans agree with because not everyone always agrees re fouls and pens) while doing it at break neck speed, football is just not cut out for it. It’s a fast paced game without the natural breaks and pauses in play.

I’m not excusing him it was a really bad mistake but I doubt he’s just kicking back smoking a cigar while doing it.
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It wasnt a mistake, for it to be a mistake he would have needed to actually do his job, which he didn't.
 
Withnail said:
There's making a mistake and there's gross incompetence. Forgetting to draw the lines means you're not fit for the job. How would that even happen?
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I don’t know. The Brentford goal was confused by checking the previous offside so there were at least other facets to it. Drawing it to the wrong player like in the Brighton game when it’s blatantly clear from the still image used that he wasn’t the last defender seems worse to me.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
There’s simply too much pressure on the refs, they have to get every decision correct (and hopefully getting the decision most pundits and fans agree with because not everyone always agrees re fouls and pens) while doing it at break neck speed, football is just not cut out for it. It’s a fast paced game without the natural breaks and pauses in play.

I’m not excusing him it was a really bad mistake but I doubt he’s just kicking back smoking a cigar while doing it.
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Maybe you're right that video tech is just not made for football. The whole point of introducing VAR was to reduce errors and get decisions right, often to the detriment of the natural flow of the game.
But when they're still getting it so wrong then what's the point?

When you don't perform the most basic function of your role, it's just gross incompetence. It's actually negligence ie you have abandoned your responsibility. Drawing those lines should be like muscle memory to him. I'm a nurse and if I "forget" to properly check a medication and make a medication error that harms my patient, that is grounds for dismissal and losing my registration. It is just so basic and that's why there really was no other outcome for Mason here.
 
It's right he went. But sad how quickly we've become use to long waits and delayed celebrations simply because we need to make absolutely 100% sure that someone's nose isn't in an offside position.


Unless it's an absolute 30-yard screamer that's unquestionably going to stand, as soon as I'm celebrating a goal my mind immediately turns to "Okay.... now var" and sorry but it's a little bit shit.
 
This 'not bothering to do his job' line is OTT.

The guy was doing his job, which was to look for any potential offsides / fouls in the lead up to the goal - but he spent too long on one incident which meant, due to complaints if VAR checks take too long, that he made the mistake by overlooking any other possibles. That's a mistake, or doing the job badly - not 'not bothering to do your job' at all.

That's like saying the VAR guy from the United - Palace game should be sacked for not bothering to do his job by only picking out Casemiro and 'not bothering' about the Ayew incident with Fred. Or the Coady incident v Liverpool going without action...

In packed boxes, or melees, then incidents will be missed by officials - even VAR ones. But if they're now going to lose their job over that then be prepared for some very lengthy VAR checks while they check and double check everything - aware they could lose their job if they miss something. And if that happens, the same people will start moaning to 'get on with it, there's no need to check everything FFS!'
 
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Zlatan 7 said:
There’s simply too much pressure on the refs, they have to get every decision correct (and hopefully getting the decision most pundits and fans agree with because not everyone always agrees re fouls and pens) while doing it at break neck speed, football is just not cut out for it. It’s a fast paced game without the natural breaks and pauses in play.

I’m not excusing him it was a really bad mistake but I doubt he’s just kicking back smoking a cigar while doing it.
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Pressure doesn't mean you forget to do the one thing you have to do when it's offside. He has literally one job, draw the lines and see how it shakes out.

It would honestly not surprise me if some sort of spot/match fixing was involved with this. How can you forget to draw the line? There is no reasoning to it that I can find.
 
acnumber9 said:
I don’t know. The Brentford goal was confused by checking the previous offside so there were at least other facets to it. Drawing it to the wrong player like in the Brighton game when it’s blatantly clear from the still image used that he wasn’t the last defender seems worse to me.
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They aren't even comparable imo. He has no excuse for not drawing the line.
 
arnie_ni said:
Pressure doesn't mean you forget to do the one thing you have to do when it's offside. He has literally one job, draw the lines and see how it shakes out.

It would honestly not surprise me if some sort of spot/match fixing was involved with this. How can you forget to draw the line? There is no reasoning to it that I can find.
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He didn’t forget to do it, he did it on another defender so it’s not like he wasn’t looking, but then while rushing because football shouldn’t even have to be slowed down like this in the first place he missed doing it on another defender.

I know what he’s done is a massive error but he’s not forgot to do his job or forgot to draw a line, he’s missed it while looking at something else.
 
stw2022 said:
It's right he went. But sad how quickly we've become use to long waits and delayed celebrations simply because we need to make absolutely 100% sure that someone's nose isn't in an offside position.


Unless it's an absolute 30-yard screamer that's unquestionably going to stand, as soon as I'm celebrating a goal my mind immediately turns to "Okay.... now var" and sorry but it's a little bit shit.
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Exactly this. It’s sad what it’s doing to football.
 
arnie_ni said:
They aren't even comparable imo. He has no excuse for not drawing the line.
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He got too caught up on the first offside. Looking at an image and picking a defender when there’s one behind him right on the screen as you do it is much worse for me.
 
If you’re going to play to VAR, you’ve got to pull it back when the attacking team wins a free kick and a yellow card.

Almiron should never have been in that position.
 
Pexbo said:
If you’re going to play to VAR, you’ve got to pull it back when the attacking team wins a free kick and a yellow card.

Almiron should never have been in that position.
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It’s ridiculous. Almiron would’ve been better off letting Salah run through and score.
 
I'm not convinced convinced by the red card for Pope. I'm not sure its deliberate. And I'm convinced if that was an outfield player the worst they would get is a yellow card if that.
 
Longshanks said:
I'm not convinced convinced by the red card for Pope. I'm not sure its deliberate. And I'm convinced if that was an outfield player the worst they would get is a yellow card if that.
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Clear as a day it was a red card. He goes to head the ball and realizes that it’s gonna go to salah and he uses his hands to prevent it. Its not like it hit his hands while he was falling down or he was supporting his body with it.
 
Longshanks said:
I'm not convinced convinced by the red card for Pope. I'm not sure its deliberate. And I'm convinced if that was an outfield player the worst they would get is a yellow card if that.
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Eh ? That’s a red card 10000000 times out of 10000000. He’s the goalkeeper.
 
bludsucker said:
Clear as a day it was a red card. He goes to head the ball and realizes that it’s gonna go to salah and he uses his hands to prevent it. Its not like it hit his hands while he was falling down or he was supporting his body with it.
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Jeppers7 said:
Eh ? That’s a red card 10000000 times out of 10000000. He’s the goalkeeper.
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Yes I'm fairness your both right. I had only had a quick look at it before posting and thought he had just sort of fell on the ball and it had hit his hands. But on second viewing definite movement of hand towards ball, knew exactly what he was doing.

I retract my earlier misguided post.
 
Longshanks said:
I'm not convinced convinced by the red card for Pope. I'm not sure its deliberate. And I'm convinced if that was an outfield player the worst they would get is a yellow card if that.
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When did he actually handle it?
Was he not past Salah, meaning it wasn't the actual handling part that took it away from Salah?

They'd already lost today's game in fairness, so at least we don't face a keeper who can utterly frustrate teams next week.
 
Longshanks said:
I'm not convinced convinced by the red card for Pope. I'm not sure its deliberate. And I'm convinced if that was an outfield player the worst they would get is a yellow card if that.
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I know you've already retracted your initial statement about the deliberate nature of the handball, but just to touch on the last bit about it being an outfielder getting a yellow card in the same situation: That may very well be right, the empty net is what makes it an obvious goalscoring opportunity despite being very far out.
 
Longshanks said:
I'm not convinced convinced by the red card for Pope. I'm not sure its deliberate. And I'm convinced if that was an outfield player the worst they would get is a yellow card if that.
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Probably the most clear red card all season.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Reckon that'd be Azpilicueta getting kicked square in the face when he's literally jumping to head the ball
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I’m came in here last week to say my biggest concern from the blowback of people hating on us for the money spend was not the weird lack of goals, or draws, or disallowed calls, or bad calls … it was the fact that I’ve felt for 4 games now that a bad injury was coming.

From the Forrest game on they have basically said “do whatever you want to Chelsea”

That’s the message the refs have sent, and now a very good man came close having his entire life changed by a flying a sideways karate kick.

I had a discussion on this topic with an oppo fan of Arsenal today who was like “good. I hope all of Chelsea effing dies”

What is wrong with people? It’s a sport. That’s it.

The flying leg scissors that nearly ended Mudryks career early last week? Continuation …. No card, so not even a called foul.

It is out of hand and has culminated in todays near disaster.

If you want to take pleasure in the voodoo hex someone put around opposing goals and our sorrows. Great, part of the game.

This stuff though …. No.
 
Proper dramatic, on so many levels.

Refs have said do what you want to Chelsea?
Sideways karate kick? Or attempted overhead?
Multiple careers nearly ended?

Give it a rest.
 
Bluelion7 said:
I’m came in here last week to say my biggest concern from the blowback of people hating on us for the money spend was not the weird lack of goals, or draws, or disallowed calls, or bad calls … it was the fact that I’ve felt for 4 games now that a bad injury was coming.

From the Forrest game on they have basically said “do whatever you want to Chelsea”

That’s the message the refs have sent, and now a very good man came close having his entire life changed by a flying a sideways karate kick.

I had a discussion on this topic with an oppo fan of Arsenal today who was like “good. I hope all of Chelsea effing dies”

What is wrong with people? It’s a sport. That’s it.

The flying leg scissors that nearly ended Mudryks career early last week? Continuation …. No card, so not even a called foul.

It is out of hand and has culminated in todays near disaster.

If you want to take pleasure in the voodoo hex someone put around opposing goals and our sorrows. Great, part of the game.

This stuff though …. No.
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What challenge are you even referring to re: Mudryk?
 
If attempting an overhead kick in a crowded penalty box, that ends up smashing a guy in the head, doesn't fulfill the criteria for "endangering the safety of an opponent", then I'll never see a tackle in my life that ticks that box.

"A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play." (red card)

Sure, it's not a tackle, but surely the point is not whether it's a tackle or not, but if a player's safety is endangered?
 
Anustart89 said:
If attempting an overhead kick in a crowded penalty box, that ends up smashing a guy in the head, doesn't fulfill the criteria for "endangering the safety of an opponent", then I'll never see a tackle in my life that ticks that box.

"A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play." (red card)

Sure, it's not a tackle, but surely the point is not whether it's a tackle or not, but if a player's safety is endangered?
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Yeah there's literally no law in the book that would allow it to be a bookable offense. It's as stonewall a red as I've ever seen personally - especially as Azpilicueta was doing the opposite of stooping by jumping to head the ball.
 
Just watching match of the day. An Everton player got pushed over the advertising boards in front of the ref. Yellow card for both players. Surely that's more violent conduct than casemiro?
 
Anustart89 said:
If attempting an overhead kick in a crowded penalty box, that ends up smashing a guy in the head, doesn't fulfill the criteria for "endangering the safety of an opponent", then I'll never see a tackle in my life that ticks that box.

"A tackle that endangers the safety of an opponent must be sanctioned as serious foul play." (red card)

Sure, it's not a tackle, but surely the point is not whether it's a tackle or not, but if a player's safety is endangered?
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Yeah I agree with this, another thing I hate is why you can arrive late for a aerial challenge and barely ever get a yellow or red, it's even more dangerous than being late for a challenge on the ground.
 
Bangor_Red said:
Just watching match of the day. An Everton player got pushed over the advertising boards in front of the ref. Yellow card for both players. Surely that's more violent conduct than casemiro?
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Wasn't he pushed into the hoarding by the force of the melee rather than by one person maliciously shoving him into it?
 
Bubz27 said:
Proper dramatic, on so many levels.

Refs have said do what you want to Chelsea?
Sideways karate kick? Or attempted overhead?
Multiple careers nearly ended?

Give it a rest.
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No. Chelsea fans should be upset.

Any of you who have watched our games know what I’m talking about whether you want to admit it or not.

Chelsea fans certainly do.

Have you seen the scissors kick at both knees delivered to Mudryk in the West Ham game? Not a foul even. And yeah, stuff like that can derail careers.

Same game, in the first 5 mins, Reece James was first to the ball then his foot came down on the edge of the toes off the guy sticking his boot in late. Immediate yellow card.

The announcers see it and are confused as well.

It wasn’t an overhead kick. Azpi was standing nearly 3 feet to the kicking players left. The guy spun around to kick sideways at head level without regard to whether someone was there.

Then Southampton had the gall to play act head injuries twice to time waste after what just happened ? Classless on a different level. (Yeah, I’m looking at you Theo Walcott).

In the Nottingham Forrest game it took a player jumping on a Chelsea mans back and grabbing him around the throat before they pulled out the first (and only?) yellow.

If you allow players to do things without punishment, consciously, then yes, you are green lighting the treatment they receive. I posted about this IN this thread last week.

I told all of you it was getting worse and only a matter of time someone was hurt badly, and here we are. Someone was hurt badly.
 
The VAR refs are not the only ones to blame. In my opinion in both the Brighton and Arsenal game that offside flag should have gone up as well. What good are assistants these days?
 
Bluelion7 said:
No. Chelsea fans should be upset.

Any of you who have watched our games know what I’m talking about whether you want to admit it or not.

Chelsea fans certainly do.

Have you seen the scissors kick at both knees delivered to Mudryk in the West Ham game? Not a foul even. And yeah, stuff like that can derail careers.

Same game, in the first 5 mins, Reece James was first to the ball then his foot came down on the edge of the toes off the guy sticking his boot in late. Immediate yellow card.

The announcers see it and are confused as well.

It wasn’t an overhead kick. Azpi was standing nearly 3 feet to the kicking players left. The guy spun around to kick sideways at head level without regard to whether someone was there.

Then Southampton had the gall to play act head injuries twice to time waste after what just happened ? Classless on a different level. (Yeah, I’m looking at you Theo Walcott).

In the Nottingham Forrest game it took a player jumping on a Chelsea mans back and grabbing him around the throat before they pulled out the first (and only?) yellow.

If you allow players to do things without punishment, consciously, then yes, you are green lighting the treatment they receive. I posted about this IN this thread last week.

I told all of you it was getting worse and only a matter of time someone was hurt badly, and here we are. Someone was hurt badly.
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I was watching the game. It was an unfortunate incident. There's an argument for a yellow for dangerous play but there was clearly no intent to endanger an opponent. Do we want to take overhead kicks out of the game?
 
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