But still equally tight.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
But still equally tight.
Yes exactly what I’m telling to. You’re moving the problem not solving it.
It’s not about the ‘margins’ though. I’m referring to the actual position of the players relative to one another. In this scenario, the forward would have to be more ‘offside’ for VAR to overturn a goal.
I don’t think you’re understanding my point.
I know you can’t be offside with your arm, so does the reverse count then? You can’t play someone onside with an arm?
As @Pexbo says, if you arse around trying to introduce "margins of error" into offside calls you won't suddenly get fewer tight calls being given/not given, you'll just change the point where the lines are drawn for those tight calls. Also, you give referees yet more licence to let their biases influence decision making.
It's a tight call but I've no problem with it. It isn't as though we're being treated differently here, nor is it that the rules are being applied incorrectly. Just accept it's a bit unfortunate that Mainoo didn't pass a fraction earlier or Amad make the run a fraction later and move on.
It's a tight call but I've no problem with it. It isn't as though we're being treated differently here, nor is it that the rules are being applied incorrectly. Just accept it's a bit unfortunate that Mainoo didn't pass a fraction earlier or Amad make the run a fraction later and move on.
I don't think you have a point.
Yeah, body parts you can't score with are ignored entirely in the offside evaluation, both from attacker and defender
But when the technology is not accurate, it makes sense to favour the attacker. It’s a better solution than the current approach, on the basis that we are currently guessing as to when the ball leaves the assisting players foot.
Okay, thanks!
If it comes down to an arm of either attacker or defender they count it from the armpit.
Ah okay then, maybe it’s the right decision then.
Every single thing you said would still happen, just at another position
You’re not understanding the basic physics here. It’s two lines, regardless of how thick or thin they each are there is one singular infinitesimally thin point at which offside/onside exists. You can do all you like making them thicker or thinner or giving the attacker extra space but it all comes down to the same impossibly narrow margin every single time.
Take another look bud, I can't find a good quality image or I'd post it here. His hand is directly below his shoulder.
Yes. But take the lines away for a moment. What am suggesting would lead to far less goals that were not clearly offside to the eye.
No matter where you place your arbitrary line, you will still continue to have situations like this with extremely fine margins. Oh he's allowed to be 0,5m offside, then why should 0,51 be a problem, or 0,52m for that sake, there's nothing to be gained. Yada yada yada
It all boils down to margins, and no matter how you redefine offside you'll always have margins.
Just like you have margins with the ball over the line or not.
But what if we allow the ball to be over the line by an inch?
Again, maybe I’m not explaining my point, but you don’t seem to be understanding it.
I fully realise there had to be ‘a’ point, and there will always be ‘tight’ calls, but giving a thicker line to the defender would mean less goals are ruled out that look incredibly marginal to the naked eye; to begin with.
Take them away permanently please. Hey presto, football is instantly improved. Why can’t everyone see this?!?
I wish
You can ridicule my opinion, but you do realise what I’m suggesting has already been implemented?
Ignore what the bloke is saying and just look at the image. The red line for amad is well in front of his shoulder. How are you denying this?!
I'd love it
If you follow Amad's line down it will be the inner edge of the red line. It's just visuals, it's not that the outer edge of the red line represents where Amad's arm is. That inner line is on the wrong side of the line they've drawn up for the Fulham player, aka offside.
If you look at the Fulham player there is a second line which goes from the pitch up to the point the line is drawn against.
Amad will have exactly the same line drawn and that’s obscured in that image.
You make the lines much thicker, I believe the lines are currently 5cm thick and if they touch the goal is given. Meaning currently we accept the margin of error being 10cm, which is hilarious IMO so many moving parts, so many variables. Should be at least 30cm, and even that in some cases probably isn't enough.
The simple question is, are we certain Amad was offside? Absolutely no chance, but we're still quite happy to rule the goal out? How stupid is that.
Why don't we get the cool offside 'wall' tech that we often see in other leagues/comps?
This whole line drawing stuff and trying to get the line in the correct place just looks and sounds shite. To top it all, I still can't tell what's going on even with the image in front of me.
This whole line drawing stuff and trying to get the line in the correct place just looks and sounds shite. To top it all, I still can't tell what's going on even with the image in front of me.
The lines are only a visualisation of the decision, right? We don't get to see the actual evaluation as far as I know
I absolutely know every single fecking podcast and game will mention the
Martinez challenge which is nowhere near a red card.
Martinez challenge which is nowhere near a red card.
It looks that way because of the camera angle, if the camera was directly in line with the offside line it would look different. If you look at the blue line it appears to be well ahead of the defender's shoulder as well.
‘The greatest difference, however, will be the changes to VAR’s interpretation of offside. Thicker lines will be introduced and when the two — one for the attacker and one for the defender — intersect, that will now be considered onside. The benefit of doubt, in effect, goes to the attacking team.’
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/27...ferent-for-the-2021-22-premier-league-season/
Well exactly. The lads making the point about they're always being a line are kind of missing the point, not that they're technically wrong.
Of course you can put the line anywhere and have any margin of error but it's about what should and shouldn't be considered offside and for me what's actually giving an unfair advantage to the attacker. If two players would be level as far as the naked eye is concerned, I don't think we should be judging down to the level of millimetres to see if the attacker was marginally closer to the goal line.
Some of the ones in Europe that have been ruled out with the automated system seem ridiculously tight. I'm hoping more sense is applied in the PL version.
This should help explain it. Fulham player has the second blue line parallel to the yellow line.
EDIT - that’s just my quick mock up, you can see the yellow line should be even further forward.
It’s just offside, it’s that simple.
Thanks for helping explain.
This should help explain it. Fulham player has the second blue line parallel to the yellow line.
So fecking mental that that is enough evidence to rule out a goal. Why are we taking this shit lying down?
It should have been in since October or November but it's been delayed for more testing (it's been active in Italy and Spain for 1 or 2 years). Maybe they haven't found a way to make it less reliable yet.Why don't we get the cool offside 'wall' tech that we often see in other leagues/comps?
This whole line drawing stuff and trying to get the line in the correct place just looks and sounds shite. To top it all, I still can't tell what's going on even with the image in front of me.
Jesus.
I'm not missing the point.
Look, i completely agree that a lot of offsides in modern football is complete stupidity because those inches doesn't equate to anything in that specific situation, but there's no way of actually solving that since you'll be introducing variables in regards to what is an unfair advantage and what isn't, which would be pointless.
You're either offside or you're not, it's that simple and it generally works.
Oliver surely dreading a loss of influence