That sky ref show is pathetic, dermot looks like he doesn't even know the rules. He just rambles on. He will say on one incident that can't be pen,too close bla bla. Next incident is closer but its pen cause he's making himself bigger bla bla. ..var and reffing in England is so poor. Whatever about rameros pen.... west ham had one not checked,Gordon also shud have had one and the one against wolves is best of lot. Ridiculous.
VAR, Refs and Linesmen | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Exactly. Now we actually get to see them zoom in on every detail and still get it wrong.
This was my issue with the onana thing against wolves which seems to have started all this. It’s absolutely a foul, but how often do we see goalkeepers wipe out everything in their path to claim the ball? It would be weird to just give that one when every other keeper already gets away with it.
Yet such a big deal was made about it that the refs saw the need to ‘correct’ it with the Romero handball the very next game.
He can't address the question because he knows he's caught. They just let these guys walk around questions, it's like discussing something with a politician...don't answer the question just have a talk track.
This is why human deserve to be replaced by AI. We can't even get the fecking simple decision like handball right. And these referees are pro with license from very top football authority. I swear I have seen my local pub football game referees doing much better job than these so called professional referees with assistance from VAR. What a bunch of idiots.
Did they ask him to explain that discrepancy?
Never mind, I see his failure to answer that question has been posted above.
I still think the Evans goal is a goal that was ruled on clear and obvious when it simply wasn’t. He jumps the other way so Hojlund had no bearing on his ability to save the header.
They ruled it from a side picture as if it were a normal offside decision when it wasn’t. It should have been looked at from all angles like every clear and obvious decisions seem to be.
For me we need a voting system. 3 VAR refs and if 2 make a decision then that’s what they go with.
Pretty obviously the difference is because it's Arsenal.
The primary determination of any handball offence is if it's deliberate or not. You can use distance, position of body and the rest as guides, it should always go back to common sense and is this deliberate.
The resident scouser "warlock" said Burnley should have had a penalty and the customary mention of the dirtiest player to have ever played in the premier league,
Casemiro.
Casemiro.
Why can't he just admit his mistakes. We are not all fools to believe that it was different.
We need the media people to speak the truth to force the FA/PL to make real improvement to the refereeing standards.
What's the benefits to cover up for these incompetent referees and VAR people? It's ruining the game. It's worse than pre-VAR.
Because contrary to what they'll have you believe, Dermot isn't there to give an objective take on decisions, he's there to protect his mates and cover up any mistakes they've made. Him blabbering and stumbling over his words while trying to explain the difference between this handball and the one not given against us is testament to that. Its a waste of time frankly.
Or, you know, ditch VAR altogether in stead of doubling down on such a fundamentally flawed approach?
You will note that both the VAR decisions you disagreed with this weekend were called correctly in real time, by the onfield officials. So much for VAR improving things.
I said this at the time. The keeper wasn't saving the header regardless of where Højlund was positioned. Was that not taken into account at all?
Any reason for giving them a penalty or just because they are the plucky underdogs with the hordes of Mordor for fans?
Sky will have employed him to give his objective view on incidents. It’s his own inherent desire to protect his mates which leads to him agreeing with 99% of decisions, even if it’s completely contradictory to something he’d said a few weeks beforehand. Sadly, it’s just a reflection of the refs protecting each other, rather than wanting to get to the correct decision and improve the system.
VAR and the refeereing have probably never been worse.
He should be sacked from that role for proving he hasn't a clue but realistically, he'll probably be commended by Sky for the social media engagement his bullshit garnered.
In both cases he just states why they can to the conclusion they did. He doesn't actually analyse either one or say whether they were right to wrong and when pushed to explain the difference between them he just refuses. What's the point of having him on?
I actually think the referees might inadvertently be heading towards a fairly major shake up as more and more clubs fall victim to their inconsistencies, bizarre explanations and attempted cover ups.
It’s only so long that VAR can continue to protect their mate on the pitch before everyone has fallen victim to it and starts to ask serious questions about what the feck is going on.
It’s actually mad, there is such fine margins between clubs and results at this level and clubs are putting everything into getting an additional 1% or 2% because there is literally hundreds of millions of £ at stake. Yet here we have this tiny cabal of arrogant twats who have the destiny of these clubs at their mercy and despite being professionalised are acting in a completely unprofessional manner.
It’s only so long that VAR can continue to protect their mate on the pitch before everyone has fallen victim to it and starts to ask serious questions about what the feck is going on.
It’s actually mad, there is such fine margins between clubs and results at this level and clubs are putting everything into getting an additional 1% or 2% because there is literally hundreds of millions of £ at stake. Yet here we have this tiny cabal of arrogant twats who have the destiny of these clubs at their mercy and despite being professionalised are acting in a completely unprofessional manner.
I want to hear them from the moment they enter stadiums. I'm not interested of some 2 minutes clips that says nothing but show how confused they are.
When someone try to use ManCity as example I always want to ask them how is it going with that PL repport about rules.If anyone claims the media dont treat our players differently, show them this:
There is a reason for that. Everybody should know it by now. I'm just surprised our club haven't take action against this by introducing silenzio stampa for whole season.
They usually take one decision that went "for" us just to somehow forget 20 that went against us.
He answers nothing. Just hides. They don't know what they are doing. Just say as it is. It is ManUtd.
To be honest, I don't think it's United. The refs are shit and go based on vibes. Sometimes it's because it's United. Wolves didn't get the call at Old Trafford, and because it was a huge outrage, so because of that outrage the refs didn't want to give us the call vs Spurs. Sometimes you can just tell if there are negative vibes about any club, refs are less likely to give you the call. They're shite and inconsistent for all and it doesn't always even out over a season (though tends to even out over a few seasons).
Spineless cnut just agrees with whatever decision the Refs/VAR make 99% of the time. Pointless having him and Dean on Sky really.
I dont believe there is an agenda against Man Utd I think the refs are just scared to give them decisions due to the huge backlash they'll recieve from the media and rival fans about it, take the Wolves game for example where the media and rival fans where furious over the Wolves penalty shout (VAR was correct not to give it in my opinion) but not one of them so much as mentioned the 2 handballs by Wolves players in the box or the possible foul on Antony in the box by the Wolves keeper.
With the Calvert-Lewin incident, I seem to remember a lot of people at the time saying that De Gea should have asserted himself more in that situation. Well, there's nothing stopping Trafford from shoving Højlund out of the way either.
These refs know that if they give United a 50/50 decision then every pundit and their dog will call it a scandal. If they don't give us it then all they have are a bunch of angry United fans, because nobody else will notice or give a shit. And thus the "United have the refs in their pocket" train gets to keep steaming along. Choo Choo.
you just described the agenda
I meant no agenda amongst the refs
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Yeah what you described is an agenda amongst the refs. They don't want to face a huge backlash from the media, so they try to protect themselves by not giving controversial decisions in our favor.
also gotta love the no var intervention in the newcastle game where i think it was gordon clearly gets contact from the defender and goes down. Was a pretty clear cut pen that defender was nowhere near getting ball and yet nothing came of it.
The handball law isn’t that subjective. The guidelines are pretty straightforward and there's very little reason two extremely similar situations should be judged completely differently.
Pundits and ex-referees make it out to be this complicated rule, or very complicated as Dermot likes to call it, where no one truly understands what it's all about, but it really isn't. The funny thing is that they can’t even get the rules right either, introducing stuff like distance to goal when they discuss situations.
Is the arm extended making the body bigger? Yes/No. If Yes, is the arm positioning a natural part of the players movement? If Yes, then no penalty. It's not really more or less subjective than this.
- touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
Against Manchester United, Romero goes into the situation stretching his arm out, making himself bigger and he's blocking a shot that is heading towards goal. The movement of his arm isn't a natural part of the movement, it's just clumsy. Essentially, he's gained an advantage by making his body unnaturally bigger.
The situation is ignored and the claim is that it was because of proximity. This is what Dermot said at the time:
“We talked last week about handball. Handball is very difficult. The more you drill down into it to get it right, the more it causes problems.
“One of the problems there is that the arm is out. Is it an expected positon? Is it above the shoulder?
“You can ask all them questions, has the ball come too fast? That’s what they felt, it was too close, and that was the decision they arose at.”
This is his take on Romero vs Arsenal, in which a penalty is awarded:
"Does Romero use his arms to balance for what he's going into? Yes. But his arms are out, it strikes his arm. It blocks the shot going in. He might feel hard done by to concede a penalty, but he's lucky because if Bissouma wasn't behind him, he would have also been sent off as it was heading to the goal with no defender.
"His arm is out, VAR has seen it, it's heading towards the goal. It didn't surprise me when I saw the replay."
The funny thing is that he's calling it a natural movement, which it is, then he goes on to ignore it being a naturally movement, ignores proximity, and essentially says it's a penalty because it's potentially blocking the shot going in.
It's no wonder Dermot thinks it's very complicated, because he's making things up along the way.
I reckon that if they made animations of situations, so that it'd be difficult for the referees to identify teams involved, and tested each referee on it, the vast majority of them would come to the same conclusions regarding penalties for handball.
The problem for me continues to be that the decision on the pitch has too much of an effect on VAR. Also, referees aren't very intelligent and Webb's obsession with VAR not frequently overruling the referee on the pitch has made the stumbling block even bigger than it should be.
The fact that he is even on television being paid money to appear on a segment called "Ref watch" is already ridiculous. Referees shouldn't be prominent in their visibility. I've not tuned in to watch referees. I don't care for what they do as long as they do it. A lot of people call for referees to be giving post match interviews and I disagree. I was one of those who wanted VAR, because I saw how goal line technology improved football but the way they've implemented it is horrid and I'd vote for us to return to the old days 100% of the time. At least with that, we can all hold our hands up and go, "ah unlucky but we've had decisions go our way in the past, it all evens out" regardless of how true that is.
With VAR, I expected them to get everything right, but they still don't so what's the point?
Instead of spending so much time coming up with excuses and defend each other, they should hire analytical professionals and statistical experts to come up with new ideas on how to create that consistency in interpretations from the rulebook. The only way to agree for these refs, is to follow a blueprint and the only way to follow such a thing is to create it. They have the tools with the use of VAR and that type of technology to actually tell the ref what should be the correct decision if such things were agreed upon and formulated beforehand. To not work this through thoroughly is a lack of ambition, and Premier League should have the best refereeing in the world, not the worst.
Lets see how many decisions we are going to get tonight against us? This year we had 4 out of 6 games some strange decisions against us.
Will it keep going? Or will it be that we get one decision for, media starts its agenda, and we don't get anything until Christmas.
Will it keep going? Or will it be that we get one decision for, media starts its agenda, and we don't get anything until Christmas.
It's generally 12-16 weeks after a decision the ABU media jump on; e.g. Bruno derby winner, Onana punch in box. The Klopp crying about us winning penalties has gone on significantly longer though.
Another stonewaller denied for us.
Don't think there is VAR in this match? But it was a stonewall pen yes.
Felt like I was taking crazy pills with no one talking about it. Commentator called it perfectly timed 