Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here

It's complete bollocks. Welbeck wasn't good enough, wanted to go, and we cashed in. Not ideal that he went to Arsenal, but he forced that.

How long should Wilson have to wait his turn by the way? Welbeck's had 5 years to establish himself.
 
birdy2121 said:
Tonight we are selling Danny Welbeck to Arsenal while we spend a huge chunk of that transfer fee on a player who spent much of last season injured and unless we pay another huge chunk of money will not be our player thereafter.

This to me signifies the dawn of a new era of Real Madrid esq dealings at Manchester Utd. I was hoping LVG would have been a superb tactician and man manager who could life our players with a few additions to be a top 4 team again, but after a tough start it seems he too has simultaneously hit the panic button with Ed Woodward and we are now spending Monopoly money in the hope it does not bite us on the bum and we come 5th or worse again.

We were ripped of by Real Madrid on the fee of 60m for a player worth circa 40m.

We sanctioned the purchase of a mop for 27m and a talented Chelsea off cast who could now be a bench warmer here for 37m.

What has happened to the soul of the club Fergie built, not to mention the scouting network. We dont panic buy we invest (as Arsenal have done yet again tonight).

Wenger like him or hate him is from the SAF school of thought, he would not panic buy and has never finished outside the top 4. We do it once and all of a sudden were playing a real life version of the PC game of football manager in the boardroom.

LVG for me (yes even now) was the wrong man for the job, he is too old and clearly with his signings has short term ambitions for his CV and Utd. We sadly in 3-4 years will pay for transfer windows gambles like this especially if were outside the top 4.

How I miss what Fergie could achieve with British players with heart who cared for Man Utd rather than
the types on huge money and if the truth were told would rather be somewhere else
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F*ck off.
 
It's utter horseshite. I think we've already given more youngsters first team games in the Premier League than Phelan and Fergie did the entire time he was assistant manager. Who else was there apart from Welbeck and Cleverley? Since then we've had Januzaj, Blackett, Lingard, Keane and others getting time in the league cup game. It's actually laughably inaccurate in fact.
 
Our identity is success, and that's the one we need to restore. We always bought big names when we needed it.

SAF was everything in the club, so it was inevitable that when he leaves some things will change. It will never be the exactly the same as it was with SAF, but hopefully it will be nearly as successful..

There is only one SAF, and he retired.
 
Danny Welbeck didn't step up, end of. He had many chances and failed. £16m is a good price. Onwards and upwards.
 
EVERYONE - United need 5 or 6 top signings to compete again, they are just not good enough.
MUFC Sign top class players - United have lost their identity.
 
Lets judge the situation at the end of the season. The back four possibly has Jones, Shaw... englishmen, Blackett might still make a name for himself... Fletcher is still there? One player going albeit one who has grown with the club since he was a kid, is rightfully being frowned upon.. but ultimately United will always produce talents, all it needs is one to come through for the identity to be restored again.

I think this is a turning point however in that it'll give the academy kids a kick up the arse... you can't just assume you'll always be United players. Buck up your ideas or you'll be playing at another club. I doubt we'll become a city/chelsea.. where there is no chance of them breaking through, simply won't happen in my opinion. There will be a mixture of the two, with slightly more emphasis on producing top quality players rather than just having homegrown players and persisting with them for the sake of safeguarding an identity.
 
Lay said:
What if the identity is holding the club back?
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Dont be silly sentimentality > progress. I think we may have narrowly avoided what happened to Liverpool and their insistence of sentimental manager choices after Joe Fagan left. Sentimental decisions breed complacency and makes things stagnant its just the way of the world
 
We can't compete with only 'developing young players' or 'players with potential'. Football has moved on and now we have to keep up with the times. Van Gaal knows this and invested in this squad.

Yes, it is god to have young players with potential, but you need a balance. We still got English players in Rooney, Smalling, Jones, Wilson, Shaw.

I think we are doing things right, bring in world class players while incorporating young players into the team. The fact of the matter is, our club's youth system does not allow us to bring up the best players. We brought in players such as Januazj and Pogba who are the best by far out of our academy. I no doubt we are stilling doing that. When we tried to put Welbeck and Cleverley in, our team is not good enough. You can only put 1-2 players in from the academy and that is saying something considering other big teams hardly have a player from the youth team. We have always had one youth player into our club since 1930s, that is one youth player from each game since 1930s!! It does not look like it is stopping with Wilson and Januzaj.
 
Football has changed and its about time we evolve along with it or be left in the dirt. That includes a dinosaur like Phelan as well.
The fact that we have done the 'Utd Way' and all the 'romance' that goes with that is the reason we have people like Fletcher and Cleverley and Evans playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world and the reason why the squad was and still partly is a shambles.

Evolve or die.
 
I think he has a point and it's interesting to hear it coming for a guy who very much knows what 'United's identity' is.
 
This is utter rubbish. Danny Welbeck is not now and never has been Mister Man Utd. If that was any player over the last twenty years it was Giggs and he's still at the club.

WE have always sold players who didn't make the grade. Danny Welbeck is like any number of players who have left this club because they are surplus to requirement. There is nothing new there.

Further we have always broken the transfer record all the way back to Brain Robson and probably before that. This is not the club changing identity or any other such nonsense. It's just a new manager creating the squad he wants.
 
If for every Tom Cleverley and Ashley Young we had in the past we start having a Falcao and a Di Maria I'm fine with that. What identity is Phelan talking about? Losing our place to our rivals? Playing football that has no identity? Signing Ashley Young because we wouldn't pay the agent fees to get Hazard? Get off it. Manchester United's identity is that of a winning club. Our success and brilliant football is our identity and when we started accepting players like an out of form Valencia, Young and Cleverley that was the moment when we truly started losing our identity and not now. van Gaal is restoring the ruthlessness which defined this club in the past, the type of ruthlessness that destroys rivals, that keeps your own players sharp and hungry for success.
 
rcoobc said:
Phil Neville and Nicky Butt got 10 years or more. Its not that Falcao isn't better, but that Welbeck was ours.
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Phil Neville and Nicky Butt were happy to be squad players, Welbeck wasn't. It's harder for strikers coming through at United because that's where our star names tend to be and need to be, hence why we haven't brought anyone through since Mark Hughes who was good enough to be first choice for United. There's a bit more flexiblity for other positions.
 
Sweet Square said:
Sorry but this is insane we've sold DANNY WELBECK not George Best.
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Crono said:
It's complete bollocks. Welbeck wasn't good enough, wanted to go, and we cashed in. Not ideal that he went to Arsenal, but he forced that.

How long should Wilson have to wait his turn by the way? Welbeck's had 5 years to establish himself.
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Dylan94 said:
Utter rubbish. It's called keeping with the times.
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Also, keeping with the times IS losing our identity. Of course it is. As is cashing in on a player who wanted to leave. As is letting a player go who is "not George best" (or falcao).
 
The only way Welbeck was to stay at this club is if we promise him a starting spot up front. How exactly do we do that without massively risking our chances of a top 4 finish?
 
justboy68 said:
It's utter horseshite. I think we've already given more youngsters first team games in the Premier League than Phelan and Fergie did the entire time he was assistant manager. Who else was there apart from Welbeck and Cleverley? Since then we've had Januzaj, Blackett, Lingard, Keane and others getting time in the league cup game. It's actually laughably inaccurate in fact.
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It's telling that they're simply ignoring the facts. I think their issue is really that we're buying expensive foreign players instead of expensive British players.
 
Bollocks, he just wants to keep feeling important by reminding people that he was a part of something important. If just selling Welbeck makes us lose our identity then we didn't have much of an identity to begin with.

We have shot ourselves in the foot trying to continue the setup that SAF had. No more!
 
rcoobc said:
Phil Neville and Nicky Butt got 10 years or more. Its not that Falcao isn't better, but that Welbeck was ours.
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Who were sold eventually, so it's not like we kept them forever. So what's the identity that's being talked about here?
 
I'm glad Welbeck is gone, as he will now have a better chance of playing more regularly - which is good for him. That was obviously not going to happen with the likes of Falcao, RvP, and Rooney in the mix. In terms of strengthening a rival, I don't think he is that influential where he will help them that much.
 
Getsme said:
EVERYONE - United need 5 or 6 top signings to compete again, they are just not good enough.
MUFC Sign top class players - United have lost their identity.
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So true...onward and upwards for the club!
 
United's 'so called' identity/youth and all that other bollocks is a myth anyway, truth is our youth system is shite, living off the reputation of the class of 92 and we have failed to give opportunity to youth for a number of years, Van Gaal has given more opportunities to youth in 1 month than what Sir Alex did in his last 10 years.

Only unique identity United had that is different to other clubs is having a manager for 27 years and playing 40 year old Giggs and 39 year old Scholes and the latter is not a positive, all that does is highlights just how bad our problems have been.

Paying what we have this summer, is getting with times and showing some muscle for once, we claim to be the biggest club in the world, it's about time we proved it by bringing the best players here.
 
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He's got a point, but fortunately it doesn't have to be the permanent loss some people think. As long as we remain comited to brgining through the next crop, it will just be a blip - a temporary reallignment brought about by our dyer situation.

If our first team in 5 years features Wilson, Januzaj, Blackett and one or two others, under the guidance of the vastly experienced Jonny Evans and (very rarely playing) player-coach Darren Fletcher, nobody is going to hark back to "ah, but they hardly had any major youth products back in 2014".
 
Crono said:
It's telling that they're simply ignoring the facts. I think their issue is really that we're buying expensive foreign players instead of expensive British players.
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Seems to be the case. Even then we've still brought Shaw in for more than it would have cost to get a foreign equivalent.
 
The sooner everyone involved in the SAF era moves on the better, i include Giggs in that.
Its all British this, 'blood and guts' football that, wing play is great etc.
SAF was the only one who could make that work and he's not here anymore. Its a new era now and Phelan needs to keep his bitter mouth shut.
 
Jev said:
I think he has a point and it's interesting to hear it coming for a guy who very much knows what 'United's identity' is.
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I bet when we bought Mike Phelan he took a place that one of our youth kids could have had. I can understand Nev and co. saying something as they came through the system. He needs to get himself a job.
 
rcoobc said:
Also, keeping with the times IS losing our identity. Of course it is. As is cashing in on a player who wanted to leave. As is letting a player go who is "not George best" (or falcao).
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What are you on about?

What course of action do you suggest would have kept 'our identity' intact? Forcing an unhappy Welbeck to sit on the bench? What purpose would that serve, and could you explain why such an act would define Manchester United's identity?
 
If you're not good enough then you get sold, homegrown or not.

How many Academy players have we sold over the years?
 
Btw, both Welbeck and Cleverley have decided they want to move on. It's not the other way around.
 
justboy68 said:
Phil Neville and Nicky Butt were happy to be squad players, Welbeck wasn't. It's harder for strikers coming through at United because that's where our star names tend to be and need to be, hence why we haven't brought anyone through since Mark Hughes who was good enough to be first choice for United. There's a bit more flexiblity for other positions.
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I get it you know, I'm not saying I don't. And yeah I agree it is different for strikers. I said, somewhere on this forum, that Welbeck could end up having as many clubs as Anelka.

Welbeck is a bit of an awkward player, as horrid as it so to say. He's fast but lanky. He's strong but not necessarily tough (compared to the likes of a Drogba or a RVN). He's a forward, but not a prolific goal scorer. He suits Arsenal, but not us.

But he was ours. United through and through. Born a red, grew up a red. He should have played in champions league finals for us. He should have terrorised Arsenal.

Its sad.
 
rcoobc said:
Also, keeping with the times IS losing our identity. Of course it is. As is cashing in on a player who wanted to leave. As is letting a player go who is "not George best" (or falcao).
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Sounds like you and the Nevilles, SAF and Bobby C can get together and reminisce about the times of old when things were good.

Its nice to have romantic notions such as yours but those days are over.
 
Getsme said:
EVERYONE - United need 5 or 6 top signings to compete again, they are just not good enough.
MUFC Sign top class players - United have lost their identity.
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Massively over-simplifying the situation...

Firstly, the reason for this sentiment is much more down to Welbeck's departure than any signings. When the one attacking player we've brought through in the last few years who has been good enough to be anear constant in the match-day squad leaves, people are bound to feel they've lost something.

Secondly, "EVERYONE" did not say we need to sign a world class superstar striker. In fact "EVERYONE" specifically poo-pood the idea, openly mocking articles linking us with the likes of Falcao or Cavani, because "EVERYONE" was sure that we urgently needed a world class superstar centre-mid and a world class superstar centre-back.
"EVERYONE" may or may not have been correct in thinking all this - hopefully the latter, and LVG proves himself to have a better plan than the masses, but there is no debate that what we got was not what "EVERYONE" was demanding.

Add togetehr the fact that the two things are undeniably linked (if we hadn't signed Falcao, no way would we have let both Hernandez and Welbeck go), and it's not hard to see why people are asking questions.
 
Crono said:
What are you on about?

What course of action do you suggest would have kept 'our identity' intact? Forcing an unhappy Welbeck to sit on the bench? What purpose would that serve, and could you explain why such an act would define Manchester United's identity?
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We he could have gone out on loan for starters
 
An Irish Red said:
I doubt Cleverley has to be fair. He'd quite happily stay here. Welbeck wanted out though so I don't know what people expected us to do.
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He'll be gone in the summer. He won't start, so he won't stay.
 
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