Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here

We sold Beckham, Butt and Phil Neville in the past. We've given plenty of time to youth players this season - and James Wilson has a terrific opportunity now to develop among 3 of the best strikers in the world. This sentimentality stuff is part of the reason why we're suffering at the minute and was the cause of appointing David Moyes. You just don't continue with players despite their inability, because they're from the youth team or they're English.

The game is changing rapidly from SAF's era, and we'll see more traditions broken. We'll be left behind trying to win leagues with the likes of Tom Cleverley in our team.

People seem to be bizarrely ignoring the fact that Welbeck wanted to go.
 
This is getting so boring.

Sign good players and get rid of deadwood = United's identity is broken.

Don't sign anyone = United need to sign players and get rid of underperforming players.

I never realized Welbeck was so critical to the survival of ManUtd.
 
ravi2 said:
Sounds like you and the Nevilles, SAF and Bobby C can get together and reminisce about the times of old when things were good.

Its nice to have romantic notions such as yours but those days are over.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The identity of "bringing young players through who make up 30-50% of the first team is gone".

It might not be a bad thing, but its happened
 
Getsme said:
EVERYONE - United need 5 or 6 top signings to compete again, they are just not good enough.
MUFC Sign top class players - United have lost their identity.
Click to expand...

This.

So annoying to keep getting rammed with 'You can't buy the big players' to 'You have ruined the club's identity'.

Welbeck and Cleverley have gone now, look it would be great if they had made it but they haven't done well enough to be playing week in, week out. Lets see how Jesse and Blackett get on.

We still have an English core, but again these are players that are heavily criticised by the outside, yet if we replaced them with 'better' foreign players - we would be in for the same shit.

Fergie and Phelan had a great nack of overrating our youth players, probably to try and mask the fact we were throwing money away on shite. Remember Fergie once described Cleverley as the most complete English midfielder / Phil Jones as the new Duncan Edwards and I'll be honest I used to take it all in.

Regardless of identity, our squad was bang average and has been given some much needed body work, that I hope will continue in January.
 
Rubbish. The reality is most youth products simply aren't good, in Danny case he was/is still good enough to warrant a place around the first team squad, he simply made the best choice for his own career to leave United and get game time elsewhere. How that equates to our "identity" being broken i don't know.
 
rcoobc said:
I get it you know, I'm not saying I don't. And yeah I agree it is different for strikers. I said, somewhere on this forum, that Welbeck could end up having as many clubs as Anelka.

Welbeck is a bit of an awkward player, as horrid as it so to say. He's fast but lanky. He's strong but not necessarily tough (compared to the likes of a Drogba or a RVN). He's a forward, but not a prolific goal scorer. He suits Arsenal, but not us.

But he was ours. United through and through. Born a red, grew up a red. He should have played in champions league finals for us. He should have terrorised Arsenal.

Its sad.
Click to expand...

Yeah fair enough, I didn't want him to leave either for what its worth but I'm just trying to fight the wave of overreaction it seems to have caused.
 
Its like its not just the media, EVERYONE is a against us since SAF left, even ex players and staff.
They just can't wait to stick the boot in whenever they can. I bet most of them hate the fact that a dutch man is managing us as its against the 'Utd Way' or some bullshit like that.
They all need to crawl back into the woodwork and feck ff imo.
 
I'm half expecting Scholes to come out with something similar after telling us to sign a host of world class players.
 
rcoobc said:
Also, keeping with the times IS losing our identity. Of course it is. As is cashing in on a player who wanted to leave. As is letting a player go who is "not George best" (or falcao).
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but thinking like this is what would have kept us from winning the Premier League and Champions League for years and years to come. Times have changed and to win and compete at the top now you need world class players in your team. We have had very few of those in the past 3/4 years and over those years it has shown.

We still have our identity. We are not Real Madrid. Our academy is still one of the best in the world and we will continue to promote youth here. LVG like Sir Alex is a big advocate of that. Our identity just needs to change slightly. That's all. You need that balance in 2014 of home grown talent and world class outside talent to succeed.
 
Perhaps we should just stand idly by and watch City stroll from title to title via their unearned money, and mimic the idiotic press & pundits who routinely say: "Wellllll, they may have spent some money but...aren't City chuffin' great?" Barely an original thought between the lot of them, and that includes ex-United staff - there's a reason why our national teams and club sides traditionally do poorly in major tournaments: plain stupidity; regressive, stuck-in-their-ways thinking; no-frills football and no-idea philosophies issuing from the usual jobs-for-the-boys suspects.
 
If you look at it, our youth system hasn't produced anyone of great note since the '92 lads. Pogba and Adnan are the best in the intervening 20 years. Welbeck was good, but if you stand him up against the players of the past that have come through, he hardly even registers.
 
We lost our identity when we stopped winning and started accepting players like Cleverley, Young and Anderson as good enough to start for our first team. We're actually regaining it right now.
 
At the end of the day Welbeck wasn't quite good enough to start for us. It seems he didn't want to settle for less, which is his good right, and that meant there was no other option than to sell him. At the same time we've already seen plenty academy lads make their competitive debuts for us. So I don't see the problem.

The previous "batch", with Welbeck and Cleverley as brightest prospects, just didn't make it. Cleverley clearly hasn't developed into a good enough player for us. Welbeck, I think he would have made it given a more sustained run up front. If anyone's to "blame" for that, it's probably Fergie and his decision to buy Van Persie. But now was probably not the opportune time to give him that run. So it's an understandable move.

Not every generation of youth players will produce first teamers. You have to accept that and move on to the next one. It would be a mistake to let the quality of the first team go down just so you could fit in academy players.
 
Man Utd will continue to produce it's own talent (hopefully better talent than what we have produced in the last few years) in the future. LVG is a manager who trusts young players but he will want to implement his philosophy throughout all stages of our youth development process. We might start to see more come through after this.

Besides this is just one season where we have had to bite the bullet and plan for the short term as we have had more immediate issues to deal with like getting back into the champions league.
 
I'm sorry but this is all nonsense. Times have changed and to win and compete at the top now you need world class players in your team. We have had very few of those in the past 3/4 years and over those years it has shown.

We still have our identity. We are not Real Madrid. Our academy is still one of the best in the world and we will continue to promote youth here. LVG like Sir Alex is a big advocate of that. Our identity just needs to change slightly. That's all. You need that balance in 2014 of home grown talent and world class outside talent to succeed.
 
No our identity was broken when you, your boss and mr meulensteen decided to let the team die by not investing. Ending up in this shit and forcing the new managers to drastically invest to bring it back to normal levels.
 
Where did our 'identity' bring us last season? Seventh place, that's what.

Is this kind of inquest happening at Barcelona? They're losing their 'identity' too, are they not?!
 
Typical childish reaction on here.

United's "identity" (or whatever you want to call it) has been to buy and develop players and build teams around a succesful core. Whether it's the class of 92 or signing people like Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio etc. Signings are more often than not long term investments.

It is part of what made the club unique/special and I don't get where the argument is in that. People on here used to accuse City or Chelsea of selling their soul for doing exactly what we've done this summer. Yet now United do it the tune suddenly changes

United have never attempted to go out and literally buy a ready made team before. The odd big signing here and there, or occasionally paying buig money for a young player that was deemed worth the risk, but Fergie always prefered to develop and build teams rather than just buy them.

Selling Danny Welbeck is one thing, but the reason he's been sold is to make way for some kind of attempt at mimicking City/Real etc. That's nothing like what United have done before so it's very definitely a change of identity. Disgarding young players to chase instant short term success.

I don't like it at all personally as I think there's a romance in seeing a team grow to be succesful, but as Phelan's kind of insinuated, if it works there'll be enough people who couldn't care less.
 
There comes a time with everyone where it's best to decide if they're good enough to make it, or not. Simple as. Welbeck didn't have enough to break into the first team, but its better this then just having him wasting his career away on the bench. People are overreacting about this whole thing. We fell down and our squad had too many average players and we needed a big change. Bringing in the quality of players that we did will give us that and hopefully bring us back to the top. It's not like we'll be spending this much every summer, it's more of a 1 time thing to get us back to the top. We'll still spend big on a few players every now and then as we always have, but I doubt next summer we'll get close to what we spent this summer. Maybe Strootman in January or next summer, and a center back, but the rest will probably just be promising players or replacing those who leave.
 
noodlehair said:
Typical childish reaction on here.

United's "identity" (or whatever you want to call it) has been to buy and develop players and build teams around a succesful core. Whether it's the class of 92 or signing people like Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio etc. Signings are more often than not long term investments.

It is part of what made the club unique/special and I don't get where the argument is in that. People on here used to accuse City or Chelsea of selling their soul for doing exactly what we've done this summer. Yet now United do it the tune suddenly changes

United have never attempted to go out and literally buy a ready made team before. The odd big signing here and there, or occasionally paying buig money for a young player that was deemed worth the risk, but Fergie always prefered to develop and build teams rather than just buy them.

Selling Danny Welbeck is one thing, but the reason he's been sold is to make way for some kind of attempt at mimicking City/Real etc. That's nothing like what United have done before so it's very definitely a change of identity. Disgarding young players to chase instant short term success.

I don't like it at all personally as I think there's a romance in seeing a team grow to be succesful, but as Phelan's kind of insinuated, if it works there'll be enough people who couldn't care less.
Click to expand...

the way we have been playing these past few years... was that in line with United's identity? shit on a stick football, incredibly dour and players who have zero courage and still being played week in week out??
 
Too much is being made of this, if our players were good enough as it was, this wouldn't have happened. We have massively fallen in one season, it was about time we realized this and have taken some bold decisions with the pure intention of bringing the club back to where it belongs.
 
Dylan94 said:
I'm sorry but thinking like this is what would have kept us from winning the Premier League and Champions League for years and years to come. Times have changed and to win and compete at the top now you need world class players in your team. We have had very few of those in the past 3/4 years and over those years it has shown.

We still have our identity. We are not Real Madrid. Our academy is still one of the best in the world and we will continue to promote youth here. LVG like Sir Alex is a big advocate of that. Our identity just needs to change slightly. That's all. You need that balance in 2014 of home grown talent and world class outside talent to succeed.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting prediction to have made. We did alright prior to last year, despite our 'old fashionedness'

United were within 3 points of winning.. 7 premier league title in a row? Is that right? 7?! 07-09 (x3), 2 points off in '10, 2011 winners, 1 point off in '12, 2013 winners. Christ that's ridiculous.

The most English titles ever won in a row is 3, a feat only achieved by us on recent times. And we were 3 points off winning 7 titles in a row.

Now, I'm not saying we didn't/dont need to chop and change to get back from 7th. But, we have lost a bit of what we were. A little bit.
 
noodlehair said:
Typical childish reaction on here.

United's "identity" (or whatever you want to call it) has been to buy and develop players and build teams around a succesful core. Whether it's the class of 92 or signing people like Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio etc. Signings are more often than not long term investments.

It is part of what made the club unique/special and I don't get where the argument is in that. People on here used to accuse City or Chelsea of selling their soul for doing exactly what we've done this summer. Yet now United do it the tune suddenly changes

United have never attempted to go out and literally buy a ready made team before. The odd big signing here and there, or occasionally paying buig money for a young player that was deemed worth the risk, but Fergie always prefered to develop and build teams rather than just buy them.

Selling Danny Welbeck is one thing, but the reason he's been sold is to make way for some kind of attempt at mimicking City/Real etc. That's nothing like what United have done before so it's very definitely a change of identity. Disgarding young players to chase instant short term success.

I don't like it at all personally as I think there's a romance in seeing a team grow to be succesful, but as Phelan's kind of insinuated, if it works there'll be enough people who couldn't care less.
Click to expand...
We would have fallen to greater depths if we continued playing these type of players. By the time we develop a proper youngster, Chelsea and City will buy 5 ready made players that will shit on those you produce. What good will that do if you're not the one lifting the trophy at the end of the season?

In 3 years both Chelsea and Manchester City surpassed us on the pitch because of our identity.
 
15 players out and there's still more needed - that says it all. The free ride for most is over.

Doing things "as they had always been done" was the Moyes approach and that was a colossal disaster. We've fully embraced change and THAT is being done in the spirit of United - playing attractive attacking football with a focus on results. This should also expand into opportunity next season and beyond for the new young talent that will come through. What our academy has produced since 92 simply hasn't been good enough. Decent but nothing exceptional. That looks (looked?) to be changing and this spree will give us time over the next few seasons to bed in new youngsters while still being competitive at the top level.
 
I'd take Phelan & co's opinions more seriously if they were as publicly outspoken whilst still working for the club. Would they still be so publicly outspoken then? No; just like Danny, they'd be looking out for themselves.
 
noodlehair said:
Typical childish reaction on here.

United's "identity" (or whatever you want to call it) has been to buy and develop players and build teams around a succesful core. Whether it's the class of 92 or signing people like Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio etc. Signings are more often than not long term investments.

It is part of what made the club unique/special and I don't get where the argument is in that. People on here used to accuse City or Chelsea of selling their soul for doing exactly what we've done this summer. Yet now United do it the tune suddenly changes

United have never attempted to go out and literally buy a ready made team before. The odd big signing here and there, or occasionally paying buig money for a young player that was deemed worth the risk, but Fergie always prefered to develop and build teams rather than just buy them.

Selling Danny Welbeck is one thing, but the reason he's been sold is to make way for some kind of attempt at mimicking City/Real etc. That's nothing like what United have done before so it's very definitely a change of identity. Disgarding young players to chase instant short term success.

I don't like it at all personally as I think there's a romance in seeing a team grow to be succesful, but as Phelan's kind of insinuated, if it works there'll be enough people who couldn't care less.
Click to expand...

Shaw, Herrera, Blind, Rojo, aren't all finished articles are they. We're buying them in the hope they will develop the same as Fergie did, the latter 3 are roughly the same age as Evra, Vidic and Carrick were when we got them, the other is a teenager. Di Maria and Falcao are two ready made top class players and I think we bloody need them to get back to the top sharpish don't you? Fergie allowed himself the same from time to time buying ready made players like Van Nistelrooy, Veron, Stam, Van Persie etc.
 
Where was all this talk when we sold Pogba or Morrison? So much hysteria it's laughable
 
noodlehair said:
Typical childish reaction on here.

United's "identity" (or whatever you want to call it) has been to buy and develop players and build teams around a succesful core. Whether it's the class of 92 or signing people like Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio etc. Signings are more often than not long term investments.

It is part of what made the club unique/special and I don't get where the argument is in that. People on here used to accuse City or Chelsea of selling their soul for doing exactly what we've done this summer. Yet now United do it the tune suddenly changes

United have never attempted to go out and literally buy a ready made team before. The odd big signing here and there, or occasionally paying buig money for a young player that was deemed worth the risk, but Fergie always prefered to develop and build teams rather than just buy them.

Selling Danny Welbeck is one thing, but the reason he's been sold is to make way for some kind of attempt at mimicking City/Real etc. That's nothing like what United have done before so it's very definitely a change of identity. Disgarding young players to chase instant short term success.

I don't like it at all personally as I think there's a romance in seeing a team grow to be succesful, but as Phelan's kind of insinuated, if it works there'll be enough people who couldn't care less.
Click to expand...
Football has moved on, its a business now, its about money now. Gone are the days you could take a few years out to build a team, its all about instant success now because of the money involved. Look at how important the 'Top 4' has become over the last 10 years, there was even talk about implementing some kind of Top 4 cup not long ago.

Deal with it or move onto another sport.

Oh and comparing us to Chelsea and City, its completely different situation. Its OUR money for a start and its one transfer window where we have spent big compared to numerous windows where they have, City have spent a Billion since the sheiks took over!.
Its also their fault for inflating the transfer fees, we wouldn't of had to spend so much otherwise.
 
rcoobc said:
That's an interesting prediction to have made. We did alright prior to last year, despite our 'old fashionedness'

United were within 3 points of winning.. 7 premier league title in a row? Is that right? 7?! 07-09 (x3), 2 points off in '10, 2011 winners, 1 point off in '12, 2013 winners. Christ that's ridiculous.

The most English titles ever won in a row is 3, a feat only achieved by us on recent times. And we were 3 points off winning 7 titles in a row.

Now, I'm not saying we didn't/dont need to chop and change to get back from 7th. But, we have lost a bit of what we were. A little bit.
Click to expand...
The continued title success was down mainly to Sir Alex than the quality of our squads in his final years and I'm talking more about the Champions League. Since we won it in 08 our lack of top quality players has shown. Particularly in the 2009 and 2011 finals against Barcelona.

I agree that we have lost a little bit of what we were but we've had to now that Sir Alex is retired and times have moved on. We've had to. Van Gaal is no miracle worker despite his genius and he doesn't have the knowledge of the English game and the Premier League and the teams in it like Sir Alex did. And even today there's no one who knows it better than him.
 
Godfather said:
Where was all this talk when we sold Porta or Morrison? So much hysteria it's laughable
Click to expand...

Reasons for selling Morrison were quite sensible. Don't see the comparison.

Pogba the other? Yeah, too bad, but he really really wanted to go, and was out of contract.
 
noodlehair said:
Typical childish reaction on here.

United's "identity" (or whatever you want to call it) has been to buy and develop players and build teams around a succesful core. Whether it's the class of 92 or signing people like Ronaldo, Rooney, Rio etc. Signings are more often than not long term investments.

It is part of what made the club unique/special and I don't get where the argument is in that. People on here used to accuse City or Chelsea of selling their soul for doing exactly what we've done this summer. Yet now United do it the tune suddenly changes

United have never attempted to go out and literally buy a ready made team before. The odd big signing here and there, or occasionally paying buig money for a young player that was deemed worth the risk, but Fergie always prefered to develop and build teams rather than just buy them.

Selling Danny Welbeck is one thing, but the reason he's been sold is to make way for some kind of attempt at mimicking City/Real etc. That's nothing like what United have done before so it's very definitely a change of identity. Disgarding young players to chase instant short term success.

I don't like it at all personally as I think there's a romance in seeing a team grow to be succesful, but as Phelan's kind of insinuated, if it works there'll be enough people who couldn't care less.
Click to expand...
I agree with every word of this


The muppets have won
 
Godfather said:
Where was all this talk when we sold Pogba or Morrison? So much hysteria it's laughable
Click to expand...
Fergie still gets constant stick for Pogba off many on Red Cafe.

Morrison - everyone I think now sees it was a very good idea to offload him
 
RetroStu said:
Football has moved on, its a business now, its about money now. Gone are the days you could take a few years out to build a team, its all about instant success now because of the money involved. Look at how important the 'Top 4' has become over the last 10 years, there was even talk about implementing some kind of Top 4 cup not long ago.

Deal with it or move onto another sport.

Oh and comparing us to Chelsea and City, its completely different situation. Its OUR money for a start and its one transfer window where we have spent big compared to numerous windows where they have, City have spent a Billion since the sheiks took over!.
Its also their fault for inflating the transfer fees, we wouldn't of had to spend so much otherwise.
Click to expand...
This.
 
BEST No7 said:
Rubbish. The reality is most youth products simply aren't good, in Danny case he was/is still good enough to warrant a place around the first team squad, he simply made the best choice for his own career to leave United and get game time elsewhere. How that equates to our "identity" being broken i don't know.
Click to expand...
That is a discussion for another day, why aren't we producing talent up to the United standard. You would think we have always had a team full of youth products. The only ones I know are the Busby Babes and Class of 92. We have always bought players.
 
100 said:
I'm half expecting Scholes to come out with something similar after telling us to sign a host of world class players.
Click to expand...
:lol::lol::lol:

too fecking right. its definitely going to happen. He's said we need 5 world class players, and within a week he's gunna say we need to bring the youth through etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.