Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here

If someone could actually tell me what is this supposed identity we are losing at least it would be the start of some kind of discussion, rather than just a baseless assertion.

The only thing different in this window is the number of players coming and going. We've broken transfer records in the past.

We'll be slagged off for anything and everything because of our success, hence why it has gone from "you need a feckload of players" to "look how many mercenary players you just bought, you've lost your identity".
 
quackattack said:
Exactly. The issue is, i believe that there was so many players new in the squad that it feels a bit "FM-ish". We don't need quantity (even if they are quality). Quality alone will do just fine. When that is said, we needed quite a few since so many departed. However, I did expect us to have more players stepping up (those who has been in United for a while).


Guess we will just "become Liverpool"...
(Decline in performance and tradition becomes just another word in the vocabulary).


Don't see how Falcao, Rooney and RVP will be beched by any of the United youngsters tbh. And Mata of course is ALWAYS on the pitch.

You speak about Falcao giving RVP and Rooney a "kick", but I don't see Mata being challanged for the 10-er. Kagawa was sold without given the promised chance by LVG, he played 20 minuted compared to Matas several hundred. That is just unfair to him. And don't come with the big speach about how much better Mata is or worse/crap Kagawa is, this isn't about that at all. When not given a chance to show your worth you are already assumed crap. I feel that LVG has not been sincere towards the players he chose to pick and leave out. He promised a chance for all to show their worth, yet some were just sent out and some just were immovable.
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Because VG thought some were not good enough, and in his eyes welbeck kagwa Hernandez were not part of his plans. He's given everyone enough time, but time does not stop for everyone

Perhaps di Maria is going to be challenging mata for that position, has I see di Maria playing allot more central
 
zvezdar said:
If someone could actually tell me what is this supposed identity we are losing at least it would be the start of some kind of discussion, rather than just a baseless assertion.

The only thing different in this window is the number of players coming and going. We've broken transfer records in the past.

We'll be slagged off for anything and everything because of our success, hence why it has gone from "you need a feckload of players" to "look how many mercenary players you just bought, you've lost your identity".
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As I said,

English media.

Now Welbeck has left United and gone to Arsenal, he has now gone from "Welshite" and "a donkey" and "someone who needs to step up" to, "The new Henry" "England's shining light" etc etc

And because of who we are, we're getting it in the neck. The same journos, who said we needed to buy world class players and spend money and get rid of the likes of Cleverley and Welbeck, are now saying we are losing our identity as it's yet another thing they can try and batter us with.

And such is the nature of a human being, there are some who will lap this shit up.

The English media are the worst of the worst!

We have not lost our identity! Our identity is still there! It's going to take a lot more then Danny bloody Welbeck to make us lose our identity.

WE SOLD DAVID BECKHAM AND STILL DIDN'T LOSE ANY OF THIS IDENTITY CRAIC!!!!!
THE GLAZERS BOUGHT US AND WE STILL DIDN'T LOSE IT!!!!!
 
He has no fecking point. There is always the possibility to criticize something, it's just a matter of doing it intelligently and stupidly. Losing our soul is about the dumbest I've ever heard tbh.
 
We were a unique club prior to SAF's departure which managed to compete at the highest level without signing the best players.

Now we are an ordinary club which spends what they can afford to do as good as possible. City/Chelsea/PSG spend what their sugar daddy can afford to pay them.

I have nothing against owners like that, but of course there is a difference between a club which earns its own money through a great fan base and success - and one that just gets it from the owner.
 
Annahnomoss said:
We were a unique club prior to SAF's departure which managed to compete at the highest level without signing the best players.

Now we are an ordinary club which spends what they can afford to do as good as possible. City/Chelsea/PSG spend what their sugar daddy can afford to pay them.

I have nothing against owners like that, but of course there is a difference between a club which earns its own money through a great fan base and success - and one that just gets it from the owner.
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One single transfer window does not change 136 years of history.......
 
.Rossi said:
As I said,

English media.

Now Welbeck has left United and gone to Arsenal, he has now gone from "Welshite" and "a donkey" and "someone who needs to step up" to, "The new Henry" "England's shining light" etc etc

And because of who we are, we're getting it in the neck. The same journos, who said we needed to buy world class players and spend money and get rid of the likes of Cleverley and Welbeck, are now saying we are losing our identity as it's yet another thing they can try and batter us with.

And such is the nature of a human being, there are some who will lap this shit up.

The English media are the worst of the worst!

We have not lost our identity! Our identity is still there! It's going to take a lot more then Danny bloody Welbeck to make us lose our identity.

WE SOLD DAVID BECKHAM AND STILL DIDN'T LOSE ANY OF THIS IDENTITY CRAIC!!!!!
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Don't think anyone cares that Cleverley will be gone on a free next Summer as he isn't much use but Welbeck is certainly a big loss as he's way ahead of our other strikers in some facets of the game.

Personally I'd always be happier to see a very talented player that actually wants to play for us than a potentially better player that has a history of joining clubs for monetary reasons and who was desperately trying to sign for Real Madrid just a few days ago.
 
Manucho the boss said:
Don't think anyone cares that Cleverley will be gone on a free next Summer as he isn't much use but Welbeck is certainly a big loss as he's way ahead of our other strikers in some facets of the game.

Personally I'd always be happier to see a very talented player that actually wants to play for us than a potentially better player that has a history of joining clubs for monetary reasons and who was desperately trying to sign for Real Madrid just a few days ago.
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Welbeck didn't want to play for us if he was pushing through for a transfer
 
Who gives a shit...
We spent a truck load of cash on some of the worlds best players.. Good for us bad for others.. Lets go out and watch our Falcao and Di Maria this just wont get old, Falcao and Di Maria.. Put that in your pipe and smoke it..
 
Meh, if it was up to the traditionalists we'd still exclusively play games against other railway stations. Whenever theres a chance to moan they moan.
 
Annahnomoss said:
We were a unique club prior to SAF's departure which managed to compete at the highest level without signing the best players.
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Eric Cantona
Ruud Van Nistelroy
Van der Saar
Andy Cole
Rio Ferdinand
Vidic
Roy Keane
Wayne Rooney
and so on and so on.

We have always bought players.
 
Rafael/Jones/Evans/Smalling/Shaw/Carrick/Fletcher/Rooney/Januzaj/Wilson/James.

At least 5 of them are starters.
 
I don't really understand some of the opposition fans and journalist logic really.

At the start of the season they go 'This is one of United's worst squad in the past 2 decades or so. They badly need 3-4 world class players to compete. Who's going to join them with no CL? Where is Woodward and his space??'

After we buy 2 world class players and 2 very good prospects addressing our CB and CM concerns, they go 'United no identity, just another soulless club buying their way into success etc'

:wenger:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Best not pay them any attention.
 
Can someone tell me what was different to this transfer window, than the one in 2001. United lacked vision hey

Shaw 18 years old
Rojo 24 years old
Herrera 24 years old
Di Maria 26 years old
Blind 24 years old
Falcao 28 years old

All these players are either young or coming to their best years. These guys could give us 4 to 5 years at the top, or in shaws case even longer. They solve allot of our problems, falcao just gives us more depth with RVP's current age, what were the club supposed to do? Just keep relying on ageing players and average players
 
.Rossi said:
Welbeck didn't want to play for us if he was pushing through for a transfer
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I don't believe any of that dreaming of playing for Arsenal s*it. More than likely we were desperate to drop more cash, Mendes knew this and happened to have a client available after Madrid rejected him. Danny gets squeezed out and now some fans want to blame him.

I'm happy with Di Maria though, great player and already burned his bridges with Real, and unlikely he'll be going anywhere else over the next few years due to ffp.
 
Manucho the boss said:
I don't believe any of that dreaming of playing for Arsenal s*it. More than likely we were desperate to drop more cash, Mendes knew this and happened to have a client available after Madrid rejected him. Danny gets squeezed out and now some fans want to blame him.

I'm happy with Di Maria though, great player and already burned his bridges with Real, and unlikely he'll be going anywhere else over the next few years due to ffp.
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Nope. Welbeck pushed that transfer through himself. Welbeck was edging for a move last season. Even Moyes didn't deny it when he was asked about it.

I'm not blaming him. Ducker has reported that he was told he'd gradually be pushed down the pecking order by Wilson if he stayed. But we didn't push anyone out. He wanted to go.
 
Manucho the boss said:
I don't believe any of that dreaming of playing for Arsenal s*it. More than likely we were desperate to drop more cash, Mendes knew this and happened to have a client available after Madrid rejected him. Danny gets squeezed out and now some fans want to blame him.

I'm happy with Di Maria though, great player and already burned his bridges with Real, and unlikely he'll be going anywhere else over the next few years due to ffp.
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He left because he was told he would be below even Wilson in terms of striker choice.
 
.Rossi said:
Nope. Welbeck pushed that transfer through himself. Welbeck was edging for a move last season. Even Moyes didn't deny it when he was asked about it.

I'm not blaming him. Ducker has reported that he was told he'd gradually be pushed down the pecking order by Wilson if he stayed. But we didn't push anyone out. He wanted to go.
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Nope indeed. There's a few people on here who have heard from very credible sources (even more credible than your beloved UWS) that the club informed Danny he was surplus to requirements, not the other way round. Last season was a different kettle of fish entirely. He didn't want to play as a left winger in a 442, which wouldn't be an issue under Van Gaal.

“It depends what formation we are playing. On the left of a four-man midfield there are a lot more defensive duties so you can’t find the time to keep attacking. But if you’re on the left of a 4-3-3, I find that position really good. I can play in any formation but, if I play on the left, I’d rather play there if there are three in midfield.

I wouldn’t say I play better for England but my goals-per-game ratio is definitely better,” he continued. “Formation-wise, I’m much freer up front because, when I play on the left for England, with three in midfield and three up front, there is more defensive cover rather than me being that defensive cover. For United I’m more likely to be left-wing in a four-man midfield, with only two central midfielders, so it’s a bit more difficult for me to make runs and score goals when I’ve got to think about my defensive duties. Maybe I’m let off the leash a bit more for England than United.”
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Pogue Mahone said:
Nope indeed. There's a few people on here who have heard from very credible sources (even more credible than your beloved UWS) that the club informed Danny he was surplus to requirements, not the other way round. Last season was a different kettle of fish entirely. He didn't want to play as a left winger in a 442, which wouldn't be an issue under Van Gaal.
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Quick question, why are you always so patronising?!

My beloved UWS?! Sorry for actually giving information from it to posters on here, who can't get their hands on it.

Like really, is there a need for that?!
 
Manucho the boss said:
Don't think anyone cares that Cleverley will be gone on a free next Summer as he isn't much use but Welbeck is certainly a big loss as he's way ahead of our other strikers in some facets of the game.

Personally I'd always be happier to see a very talented player that actually wants to play for us than a potentially better player that has a history of joining clubs for monetary reasons and who was desperately trying to sign for Real Madrid just a few days ago.
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Barcelona also bring players through their academy, with all these morals that club shoves down people's throats even FCB spend big when they see a player available, suarez was available they payed the big bucks. The transfers this summer is an example that players were available, the club acted on it. If real wanted falcao so badly, they would have signed falcao. He is on a loan deal, united did not pay 50 million, so its a smart move from the club. Maybe falcao wanted to join madrid, united came calling he also did not mind joining us, so clearly he saw united has a big catch even without CL football
 
Joga Bonito said:
I don't really understand some of the opposition fans and journalist logic really.

At the start of the season they go 'This is one of United's worst squad in the past 2 decades or so. They badly need 3-4 world class players to compete. Who's going to join them with no CL? Where is Woodward and his space??'

After we buy 2 world class players and 2 very good prospects addressing our CB and CM concerns, they go 'United no identity, just another soulless club buying their way into success etc'

:wenger:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Best not pay them any attention.
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This is my issue, everybody knew where we needed to strengthen, the centre of our midfield and centre of our defence.

Everyone said our forward line was our strength and some even said the best in the league. Instead the 2 world class players as you call them, are forwards, while our main weaknesses are being plugged by 2 guys that were nobodies before the World Cup. It feels like we tried to get our top targets in those areas like Vidal and Hummells and when we failed we just threw the cash into attacking players that were available if not really needed. I realise there would have been mass protests if we didn't spend big money but I would have liked to see some semblance of a plan to build the squad rather than give Jorge Mendes a blank cheque and let him fill it out based on who he wants to move on.
 
As a side note, it's very noticeable that the neutrals strongly would like Arsenal followed by Liverpool to win the league this season.
 
Opposition fans have been claiming we are "soulless" for years. They'll use any stick to beat us. Whats he admitting to now? That we were "special" before this transfer window?

Welbeck wanted out and the 4th place spot in the striker pecking order has been occupied by another academy player.

The hysteria continues.
 
It's all bollocks really. Every club is just trying to win. If we were as shit as City or PSG before the money came in and someone came along and offerred us billions would we turn that down? No fecking chance.

With the popularity of the sport it was always going to become massive business sooner or later. And inevitably with that, it was always going to become expensive to get the best players. If you want to spend your time calling different clubs souless because of that, fine, but you're an idiot if you think your club wouldn't do the same if given half the chance.
 
Having rival supporters sprouting shite towards us out of jealousy is part of our history. We're back!!
 
We've lost our identity a little alright but it's nowt to do with losing local players. What we lost was our flair and our quality thanks to too many ordinary players and an ordinary manager. We became ordinary and mediocre. We're about to get our identity back and the likes of Mike Phelan et al have got it wrong.
 
I couldn't give a toss what journalists or other team fans are saying, we sell papers if we are winning everything, being shite, not spending, spending loads. As for the rival fans they are now worried we may get back to the top, the joy they have had in our recent demise is the only reason they are chirping up, they don't give a shite about youth and tradition, just us failing.
Despite our terrible season last year and our very dodgy start this, we are still the biggest club in England, possibly the world so a club like ours needs some of the best players in the world in it. We have spent huge because the team needed an overhaul, we are not finished yet either as I do expect another top CM and CB signed as priority by this time next year, maybe in January.

The class of 92 like the unfortunate Busby Babes are very few are far between. A lot of youth we have had are simply not good enough, even the likes that did make it in recent years, O'shea, Brown, Fletcher, Cleverley and even Welbeck are not good enough players to command a starting position week in week out. Add a lot of suspect buys over the last 5 years or so and a manager out of his depth has all culminated in the team gradually becoming weaker. To halt the slide further we have invested heavily in top talent (although not quite in the the most needed areas) but we still have home grown youth coming through the academy/reserves with a real chance of becoming permanent fixtures in the squad such as Wislon, Blackett and youth we have bought in like Januzaj.

To say we have sold our soul is fecking balls. We will continue to give youth a chance if good enough, but hopefully we will not keep average players in our squad for years just because they are home grown.
We need to be competing for titles and playing among Europe's elite so a mixture of top class talent along with some promising youth is the way forward and despite the romanticizing about our past like the class of 92 it is simply not feasible to build a team like back then on a regular basis. I hope one day it happens again in my life time but if it does not we need to be as active as our competitors in the transfer market to stay at the top.
 
Manucho the boss said:
This is my issue, everybody knew where we needed to strengthen, the centre of our midfield and centre of our defence. Everyone said our forward line was our strength and some even said the best in the league.
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That's not true, we were dearth in all areas of the pitch, LVG himself even said our main build up play was a particular issue, this has now been addressed.

Manucho the boss said:
Instead the 2 world class players as you call them, are forwards,
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Di Maria is a midfielder/winger.

Manucho the boss said:
while our main weaknesses are being plugged by 2 guys that were nobodies before the World Cup.
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Vidic was a nobody before we signed him, Blind isn't a nobody as he won the player of the year award at Ajax and Dutch footballer of the year last year.

You're just being melodramatic, go for a lie-down dear.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Last season was a different kettle of fish entirely. He didn't want to play as a left winger in a 442, which wouldn't be an issue under Van Gaal.
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Even if we go with this version (and I agree no one knows anything and we're all just going which what suits our preferrable slant) I still don't understand what it changes? He wanted out of Manchester United when we weren't playing well because he wasn't getting his way. Why is that not an issue, but this year - clearly knowing he'd still be behind LVG's international captain, and his newly appointed England captain in his preferred position - it's the club's black heart that is forcing poor Danny out?

Incidentally I don't blame anyone, least of all Danny for this whole thing, but I find the stick that's being used to beat the club a hypocritical one at best. "No, he didn't want out of United actually, that was another time a whole 4 months ago when he wanted out of United, so naa"*

*Thats not you by the way.
 
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Tarrou said:
It's all bollocks really. Every club is just trying to win. If we were as shit as City or PSG before the money came in and someone came along and offerred us billions would we turn that down? No fecking chance.

With the popularity of the sport it was always going to become massive business sooner or later. And inevitably with that, it was always going to become expensive to get the best players. If you want to spend your time calling different clubs souless because of that, fine, but you're an idiot if you think your club wouldn't do the same if given half the chance.
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Every other club doesnt(or didnt) half bang about it like we do(did) for ages.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Eric Cantona
Ruud Van Nistelroy
Van der Saar
Andy Cole
Rio Ferdinand
Vidic
Roy Keane
Wayne Rooney
and so on and so on.

We have always bought players.
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Yup. Even before this transfer window, opposing fans always said we bought the league or some league titles.

Just happens that this time round, LvG felt we had an average squad thst needed a big shakeup, something thst should or usually is done over time rather than in one window.
 
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