feck me, 20 years without trophy and we'll be worse than RAWK, heck make it 5
Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here
- Thread starter birdy2121
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It's a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't, all this outrage for spending your money!!!! I've had enough of this bullshit.
Why is everyone jumping on this selling our soul bullshit? We're are the EPL and these new clubs Cheslea and City have came in and completely changed the game, football has become ALL about money and the fact that we lasted so long without switching our game plan to compete is amazing. I was always gonna happen, but the thing is we're one of the biggest clubs in the world, we should be going for the best players when available.
Exactly, we lost our identity when we stopped smashing transfer records and spending loads of cash on players.
Its great to be back.
What an original thread. Haven't had one quite like this for some time.
Does he also think that Hull City are soulless now because they have spent all they had to spend, and broke their transfer record, on one player? I doubt it.
It's all about perspective. Just because we have more to spend, doesn't mean we are wrong for spending it.
It's all about perspective. Just because we have more to spend, doesn't mean we are wrong for spending it.
Are non-United fans creating these threads or what, trying to create some negativity over a positive summer.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ayers-Arsenal-Chelsea-Liverpool-Man-City.html
More homegrown players than City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal (12/25).
More homegrown players than City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal (12/25).
Moyes mark11 to this debate is going to be. On one side is the progressives and on the other the traditionalists(being kind with that term). Now in my eyes the traditionalists are reacting way over the top here. The squad was in need of an overhaul here guys, what with age and players not up to scratch. What would be your solution?
Their solution would have been to give Moyes more time to shape the side or the like.
We came in 7th last year and are currently out of Europe, feck the traditionalists....its about time someone dragged the club into 2014 transferwise.
Yeah, I think that's fair.
Don't like the way people who seem instantly at ease with this upheaval are being so sneery towards those who don't. As you explain above, there's an obvious reason behind it.
Just one thing, has any other football in the world support their team more when they lose than when they win? Van Gaal has played in the biggest club in the world and our fanssurprised him. Do you think City and Chelsea will do that? NOO!
Not yet another thread spouting the same rubbish, out of here
Bollocks. Take a look down all the English leagues, you'll be surprised how many players are ex-united players. We give chances to young players, they don't have to be from our academy.. Expecting a club to produce 6 or more world beaters every decade is unrealistic. As much as I think everyone should discuss what they want, this particular subject is getting out of hand.. People throwing about 'facts' without even knowing the actual FACTS, topic should be closed.
Indeed. The team badly needed rejuvenating. Van Gaal has done that with some pretty spectacular transfers. Enjoy the ride and feck the moaners.
Van Gaal has given more opportunities to youth in 1 month than what Sir Alex did in his last 10 years.
Truth is our youth haven't been good enough, since the class of 92 - Keeping and playing the likes of Darren Fletcher/Tom Cleverley/Wes Brown/John O'Shea/Jonny Evans, academy players who are (wasn't) clearly good enough will make us lose our soul. If being soulless is ridding ourself of the deadwood, we will lose our soul when the Manchester United we know loses its big club status on the world stage due to playing averages, i'd argue we lost part of our soul last season losing Champions League football, i'd argue we lost part of our soul when Sir Alex choose to start Ji Sung Park/Fabio in our injury hit midfield during a game over Paul Pogba and selling players like Pique/Rossi and Pogba because they didn't get a chance at a club who apparently is all about 'giving youth a chance'.
All i see this summer, is United waking up and finally seeing reality for what it is, there need to be a balance in promoting youth and signing the best players in the world, Barcelona do it right that way and that's what i see Manchester United doing now, as said Van Gaal for me as took an interest in our youth more so than Sir Alex did in his last 10 years and he's also signed some of the best players in the world, that's how it should be, balance is the key word here.
Truth is our youth haven't been good enough, since the class of 92 - Keeping and playing the likes of Darren Fletcher/Tom Cleverley/Wes Brown/John O'Shea/Jonny Evans, academy players who are (wasn't) clearly good enough will make us lose our soul. If being soulless is ridding ourself of the deadwood, we will lose our soul when the Manchester United we know loses its big club status on the world stage due to playing averages, i'd argue we lost part of our soul last season losing Champions League football, i'd argue we lost part of our soul when Sir Alex choose to start Ji Sung Park/Fabio in our injury hit midfield during a game over Paul Pogba and selling players like Pique/Rossi and Pogba because they didn't get a chance at a club who apparently is all about 'giving youth a chance'.
All i see this summer, is United waking up and finally seeing reality for what it is, there need to be a balance in promoting youth and signing the best players in the world, Barcelona do it right that way and that's what i see Manchester United doing now, as said Van Gaal for me as took an interest in our youth more so than Sir Alex did in his last 10 years and he's also signed some of the best players in the world, that's how it should be, balance is the key word here.
I'm usually on the side of "tradition" but I think here the "traditionalists" are confused.
It's sad to lose so many players so quickly, but it's not about becoming like City, is about how we were way overdue to replace many players.
Some United fans are scared to be great. Probably the same ones asking for investment over the years, but they don't know how to mentally/emotionally process the reality of us actually going out and doing it.
We needed good footballers, that much was unanimously agreed. I just think some people would have been more comfortable if the players we brought in were simply less good. Now there is some wierd sense of guilt. Probably been slagging Woodward for years, thinking that it doesn't matter as he would never do it anyway - and now he's bought some world class additons they have stopped in their tracks like 'oh shit'.
Many people thought we needed a winger for example, a very good one at that - but deep down, the United they support would have felt more familiar if they went and bought Mirallas for £18m instead of Di Maria for £60m. Of course, it is likely Mirallas would not have helped us to close the gap enough on City, who would have just bought Di Maria, and then the same people would complain about us not buying the likes of Di Maria, while slagging off Mirallas in the Mirallas thread.
It comes back down to my theory that while everyone says we are the 'biggest club' etc, in their heart maybe they don't really believe it. We belong scrapping for second-best in the transfer market, that is the United they know. The sight of United showing their true might scares them, as is often the case with unfamiliarity. Now they want things back the way they were, because at least they knew and understood it better then.
Anyway, feck em all. Woody for president I say.
We needed good footballers, that much was unanimously agreed. I just think some people would have been more comfortable if the players we brought in were simply less good. Now there is some wierd sense of guilt. Probably been slagging Woodward for years, thinking that it doesn't matter as he would never do it anyway - and now he's bought some world class additons they have stopped in their tracks like 'oh shit'.
Many people thought we needed a winger for example, a very good one at that - but deep down, the United they support would have felt more familiar if they went and bought Mirallas for £18m instead of Di Maria for £60m. Of course, it is likely Mirallas would not have helped us to close the gap enough on City, who would have just bought Di Maria, and then the same people would complain about us not buying the likes of Di Maria, while slagging off Mirallas in the Mirallas thread.
It comes back down to my theory that while everyone says we are the 'biggest club' etc, in their heart maybe they don't really believe it. We belong scrapping for second-best in the transfer market, that is the United they know. The sight of United showing their true might scares them, as is often the case with unfamiliarity. Now they want things back the way they were, because at least they knew and understood it better then.
Anyway, feck em all. Woody for president I say.
Personally I think hes talkign utter bullshit. We are a club that built itself up from the ground and then got bombed and built itself back up again and then lost practically an entire squad of players to a tragis air crash only to then once again rise from the ashes.
Look at our fans against Swansea, Sunderland and Burnley already this year. The soul is still well and truly there in this club. Look at how our fans stood by all of last year and continued to be supportive irrespective of u7s being flushed down the shitter by Moyes.
The red flag is still flying high and anyone who thinks we are now plastic may aswel feck off and support a proper plastic club like chelsea, city and psg etc.
That point gets forgotten. We invested heavily in british youth in recent years and we still have the core of them at the club. As you say this was long overdue. This has all come about because of the welbeck sale. Hernandez has done more for the club than him and would never have gotten this reaction on here. Complete over reaction.
The daily mail published an article saying that 12 of United's 25 man Premeir legaue squad is homegrown and a good number of them are British. Chelsea have 2 or 3 City not much better.
This is my exact point. We've had the media, opposition fans and every man and his dog bang in about how we need a big overhaul of our squad and how we are in desperate need of investment. So we do that, and now they're all having a go at us for it!
I have a mate who has said the same old shit over and over again to me for about three years ; that we can't attract world class players and that the squad desperately needs signings. Now he's changed his tune to pretty much the thread title. It embarrassing but they need something to have a pop at us about.
At the end of the day, when last season was over it was bloody obvious that we needed to sign a left back, a midfielder, a centre back and a winger. We've done that, with our own money that has come from years of not spending and commercial and on- field success. We have promoted Blackett, Lingaard and Wilson to the first team this season and the likes of Januzaj should continue to get a chance.
And for some reason it seems to be ok for Liverpool to spend not too dissimilar sorts of money on more players than us (not having a pop at the scouse there, just pointing out that no one seems to be in their case). And Spurs last season weren't far off either...
We may have spent an exorbitant amount of money and excessive fees on a few players, but unlike those clubs we have generated our own money and we should have actually taken advantage of it sooner than we have. In contrast to Chelsea and City who have spent high figures on players near enough year year for the past five years.
The only degree of sense that statement makes, is that we've slightly deviated from our youth policy in signing a ready-made star in Falcao which in turn put Welbeck's place at the club in jeopardy, but for all we know, he might have left whether we signed the Colombian or not.
The only degree of sense that statement makes, is that we've slightly deviated from our youth policy in signing a ready-made star in Falcao which in turn put Welbeck's place at the club in jeopardy, but for all we know, he might have left whether we signed the Colombian or not.
One summer in which we overspent to counter years of poor underspending and we're soulless. 
I've had enough of what other fans think. We came 7th last season which other fans can't probably remember happening and thought it's the end of UTD. We proved them all wrong by getting world class players without champions league and then we are soulless!
I've got messages from Arsenal fans trying to convince me that Welbeck was the best striker at UTD and is a better all round player then Falcao!
I've had enough of this shit, were man UTD, we do what we want, you don't like it? Good feck off then!
I've got messages from Arsenal fans trying to convince me that Welbeck was the best striker at UTD and is a better all round player then Falcao!
I've had enough of this shit, were man UTD, we do what we want, you don't like it? Good feck off then!
The irony of people discussing this is what gets me to be honest.
United have been a relentless corporate machine for years - pretty much since the PL started. Since I was young there was a new shirt every year, merchandise of every type, expanding OT to get more bodies in and every trick to get more money out of you when you were at the ground.
United led the way in making football a multi-million pound business in the UK. With that money they built a massive stadium and broke transfer records at will year after year.
The commercial side has been as it is for years, with tens of commercial "partners" worldwide, tours to far flung places and its own TV station.
Spending a few quid on a few big name players hasn't ripped out the clubs "soul" - because quite simply we've been what we are now for years - and most fans on here will have known nothing else.
Anyone bemoaning this as a watershed moment wants to make this comment to a fan of other clubs up and down the country and watch them laugh their heads off.
United have been a relentless corporate machine for years - pretty much since the PL started. Since I was young there was a new shirt every year, merchandise of every type, expanding OT to get more bodies in and every trick to get more money out of you when you were at the ground.
United led the way in making football a multi-million pound business in the UK. With that money they built a massive stadium and broke transfer records at will year after year.
The commercial side has been as it is for years, with tens of commercial "partners" worldwide, tours to far flung places and its own TV station.
Spending a few quid on a few big name players hasn't ripped out the clubs "soul" - because quite simply we've been what we are now for years - and most fans on here will have known nothing else.
Anyone bemoaning this as a watershed moment wants to make this comment to a fan of other clubs up and down the country and watch them laugh their heads off.
That should be placed in the start of every thread that is started complaining about utd losing its soul.
Regardless, I don't see how 20 minutes vs several hundred can even be comparable in the slightest. Of course you always have the argument that he wanted to leave which in that case made it all different.
Oh cry me a river, like opposition fans really care if we're going to lose our soul. They just want to see our downfall and have a good laugh.
We sold Welbeck, that was a one bad mistake but so what? Anyone see his statue outside of Old Trafford? he was far from an United symbol ffs. Welbeck had his chance he didn't make it, we still have more HG players than any top clubs in the country. Move on
We sold Welbeck, that was a one bad mistake but so what? Anyone see his statue outside of Old Trafford? he was far from an United symbol ffs. Welbeck had his chance he didn't make it, we still have more HG players than any top clubs in the country. Move on
No, but you did depend on two Englishmen. That is if what I read before is correct of course.
I think there has been a sentiment since our last appearance in a Champions League final that the club has fallen away from the very elite teams out there.
consequently many of our fans took a view of things that we were simply too high minded and loyal to our youth players to stoop to the sort of purchases that made teams like Real so good.
now we are going back to the sort of purchases we were used to seeing during Sir Alex's earlier years at United, and this is robbing some people of their high horse.
consequently many of our fans took a view of things that we were simply too high minded and loyal to our youth players to stoop to the sort of purchases that made teams like Real so good.
now we are going back to the sort of purchases we were used to seeing during Sir Alex's earlier years at United, and this is robbing some people of their high horse.
It does help kagwa and welbeck had value, so united could make some money back off those 2, and bringing down the wage bill.
You have seen how hard it has been shifting some of the players that the club did not want, hernandez nani and cleverley had to be loaned out as there were very few takers in terms of the wages of guys like cleverley, fellani conveniently picks up an injury, I do not anyone wants anderson. Only criticism of the club, is keeping hold of fletcher valencia and young but again injurys and squad rebuilding is going to take 2 or 3 years, where the latter 2 both did a houdini, but next summer I feel VG will finish off the squad trimming.
I do see VG getting rid of young and fellaini next summer, while nani hernandez cleverley transfers will be made official. Out of all the deadwood and experienced players that have left of ferdinand vidic evra butner cleverley fletcher anderson fellaini valencia nani young kagwa welbeck and hernandez, fletcher and valencia I think will be the only survivors of this overhaul
Not saying it is my decision, but i would feel a bit bad if/when they all leave. I know it was not space for Chicha and Wellbz, like both and think they are great personalities and good players, but I understand that good players like that wants more time on the pitch, and Danny still has great potential to become a truly fine attacker for any team.
I would also imagine that Valencia will stay. He is more or less a veteran and I don't want all of the "good ol' gang" to leave. I feel that he MIGHT contribute in some way and he has been here for quite some time.
Also some mixed feelings towards Nani, but in the end it was the best for all parts, and he seemed quite happy with it himself. If only he could be more stable in his performace I'd have him in the team all day long.
The only one out of the lot that had a possible future if we put more faith in him, is welbeck, the rest are all replaceable.
I think the united attack will be in need of rebuilding next summer, has one reason why falcao was brought in. RVP is 31 and he is picking up injury's and his movement has been less than impressive, much like RVN in 2006 he looks stale, same with rooney at times. It is debatable if falcao will be made permanently, so decisions for the united attack will be brought up in the summer, especially rooney is 29 in october. If Falcao is the same player has before, he will breath new energy and life into the united forward line that has become laboured. That is what makes falcao and di maria so exciting, they are huge assets for when we want to counter attack teams, mata rooney and RVP just lack that urgency and atletic power when we want hit sides with pace
Yes we spent a lot this summer, but let's be honest us being active in the transfer market and being willing to spend big is not a new thing during the Premier League era.
Also, let me repeat what I said in another thread, if Welbeck and Cleverly were the soul of our club then that just proves how much trouble we were in.
The reaction to our summer spending is the weirdest most pretentious bullshit I've read in the caf.One summer in which we overspent to counter years of poor underspending and we're soulless.
If you replace all the parts of a broom one by one are you still left with the same broom at the end? 
So just because we threw some money around means we're soulless? Why is that?