Or pushing your namesake down the roster for record breaking signings RVN and Wayne Rooney, then signing Saha as back up.
Utd now just another big club | All "United losing identity" stuff here
- Thread starter birdy2121
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Or pushing your namesake down the roster for record breaking signings RVN and Wayne Rooney, then signing Saha as back up.
I understand with him being a local lad but the levels of sadness people reaching are insane. I'm not a massive fan of this 'identity' thing as people tend to use it whenever it suits them best.
Not too long ago everyone's was quite happy to pay for a taxi for Morrison if it meant he would leave Old Trafford quicker .The reasoning be hide this is because he didn't live up to his potential but no one's been saying United have lost their' Identitly' over that or another one when Zeki Fryers wanted more game time I don't remember anyone asking why aren't United giving kids from Manchester more game time or why United aren't doing their best to keep players from Manchester at United
Actual I remember something different I remember people(mostly on here)happily telling him to feck off when he asked for bigger contact. But maybe Zeki was just like one of us maybe he was just trying to keep the 'Identitly' of Manchester United alive.
This 'Identity' stuff is complete bollocks(At best United's Identity is giving young players from anywhere a chance not just kids Manchester) .
If people are going to toe the line with this 'He's one of us a local lad' then do it for every kid from Manchester who breaks in the academy/first not just the talented ones.
Fans picked and chose all the time and that's fine just don't be upset when LVG does the same.
As much as I love Danny, he wanted to leave. No need to keep a player if he doesn't want to be here. Just because we bought in some world class players this window and sold one of our best youth products in years, which is pretty seldom from our part, does not mean we've lost our identity. These transfers were needed to get back into the top 4.
With that said, you've got to appreciate what SAF managed to squeeze out of some squads that were even worse than his last one.
With that said, you've got to appreciate what SAF managed to squeeze out of some squads that were even worse than his last one.
We have Tyler Blackett anyway. What's he talking about?
Who - interesting fact - has already played more minutes this season than any player born in Manchester did in the whole of the 92-93 title season.
Not sure I buy into this "keeping up with the times" argument. I understand the pragmatism in it, but football isn't just about that; it's also about feelings and belief. Manchester United always stood for something different than City and Chelsea; we were basically a successful Arsenal. To label United as City and Chelsea would be unfair as of yet as United are spending their own earned money, not that of their sugar daddies.
I just feel that with a spending spree like this, United will feel a little less special. I always look forward to watching our players enter the field; now there are less and less of them, it seems. LvG will never be a long term solution, but it could also look as if his solutions on the pitch are made for immediate impact more than for the future. No players but Shaw brought in are younger than 24, so hardly young and promising anymore.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, however, and see what transfigures next summer. If we revert to looking for youngsters, mainly from our own ranks, then this was surely a result of a one time much needed overhaul. If it becomes a recurring theme, then my interest in United will dwindle as the club would no longer be what I support.
I just feel that with a spending spree like this, United will feel a little less special. I always look forward to watching our players enter the field; now there are less and less of them, it seems. LvG will never be a long term solution, but it could also look as if his solutions on the pitch are made for immediate impact more than for the future. No players but Shaw brought in are younger than 24, so hardly young and promising anymore.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, however, and see what transfigures next summer. If we revert to looking for youngsters, mainly from our own ranks, then this was surely a result of a one time much needed overhaul. If it becomes a recurring theme, then my interest in United will dwindle as the club would no longer be what I support.
Rooney was Gonskis last summer under SAF tbf.
Rossi wasn't ready by the time those signings were made to even debut for the first team IIRC.
It was preferring Tevez over him that resulted in him leaving which is a fair point. (Though Rossi wasn't a Manc and from us from 8 or something.)
Anyway, need to find right balance between the 2 things which SAF certainly did for me. Hope LVG does too and it's not Chelski, PSG, City or Madrid type policy here.
So far the start from LVG hasn't been bad though this is a downer from both sides.
United's identity for me personally is as follows..
1) Entertain the fans/Play to win
- Thrilling and exciting football
- Attack, attack, attack
- High tempo, purposeful, highly creative football
- Controlled aggression, plenty of courage
- Cavalier football at its best
2) Freedom afforded to great individuals
- Sustained history of flamboyant individuals - players you'd pay money to watch
3) The team comes first/ruthlessness..
- whenever an individual holds the club to ransom, or his ego is affecting the rest of the team, you get rid. Manchester United comes first!
- if a player is past his past, get rid and go for youth.
4) Great promotion of youth players/development of young talent/fantastic scouting
- whether local lads born and bred, or buying of young talent from the British isles.. George best, D. Edwards, Beckham.. not local lads, but brought into Manchester by excellent scouting
- this progressed to buying in top british talent for big money.. Ferdinand, Rooney.. attempt to buy Bale. Bryan Robson?
5) winning not just domestically but in Europe/or competing at the business end for trophies
- The busby babes pretty much assured United and Europe go hand in hand. United without European football is a great loss for both us and the competition itself, we're a glamour team make no bones about it.
6) Great managers who shaped the club from head to toe
- Our best managers shaped the identity of the club and promoted the aforementioned principles I have mentioned.
Most great clubs share alot of these attributes, but the one which distinguished United for me... is the manner in which we played our football. I could always watch a United game and be guaranteed excitement, only team which came close was a Madrid but they never had the vulnerability of a United side and they were a more intelligent and cunning outfit, whereas we literally went for the kill everytime we had the ball. Hard to explain, but the only team in the premiership which comes close now is this current liverpool side.. their tempo is eerily similar to the best United sides of the past.
United's identity has also been forged by promotion of great British talents in alliance with more exotic foreign talents, especially during Fergie's reign. I don't see why this can't continue under LVG. Jones, Shaw??. Anyway my point is I feel under Fergie's latter years and under Moyes, we lost our way.
Principle 1? we became incredibly boring to watch, both away and then at home.
Principle 2? Promotion of players like Valencia, over someone like Nani... complete lack of flair throughout our team. No one willing to take a risk on the ball bar a young Januzaj, it was shameful to watch.
Principle 3? Moyes's arse-licking of Rooney, bumper new contract which lumbered us with him. LVG was impressed in Pre-season but will he continue to impress? if he doesn't quite cut it will LVG drop him, remains to be seen. Fergie in his peak years was a ruthless bastard, he'd get rid of anyone who didn't have United's best interests at heart or if they didn't merit a place in the team. The amount of deadwood we have now is unbelievable and it is attributed to Fergie and Moyes.
Principle 4? youth players played - no complaints here.
Principle 5? out of europe for one year, no biggie.. again no complaints.
Principle 6? Moyes was not in the mould of a great managers. Not a risk taker, a ditherer.. poor choice as manager.
For me the first three principles under Fergie/Moyes, we lost and also the 6th.. this club is built on great men, great managers. Era defining managers. LVG is in that mould.
1) Entertain the fans/Play to win
- Thrilling and exciting football
- Attack, attack, attack
- High tempo, purposeful, highly creative football
- Controlled aggression, plenty of courage
- Cavalier football at its best
2) Freedom afforded to great individuals
- Sustained history of flamboyant individuals - players you'd pay money to watch
3) The team comes first/ruthlessness..
- whenever an individual holds the club to ransom, or his ego is affecting the rest of the team, you get rid. Manchester United comes first!
- if a player is past his past, get rid and go for youth.
4) Great promotion of youth players/development of young talent/fantastic scouting
- whether local lads born and bred, or buying of young talent from the British isles.. George best, D. Edwards, Beckham.. not local lads, but brought into Manchester by excellent scouting
- this progressed to buying in top british talent for big money.. Ferdinand, Rooney.. attempt to buy Bale. Bryan Robson?
5) winning not just domestically but in Europe/or competing at the business end for trophies
- The busby babes pretty much assured United and Europe go hand in hand. United without European football is a great loss for both us and the competition itself, we're a glamour team make no bones about it.
6) Great managers who shaped the club from head to toe
- Our best managers shaped the identity of the club and promoted the aforementioned principles I have mentioned.
Most great clubs share alot of these attributes, but the one which distinguished United for me... is the manner in which we played our football. I could always watch a United game and be guaranteed excitement, only team which came close was a Madrid but they never had the vulnerability of a United side and they were a more intelligent and cunning outfit, whereas we literally went for the kill everytime we had the ball. Hard to explain, but the only team in the premiership which comes close now is this current liverpool side.. their tempo is eerily similar to the best United sides of the past.
United's identity has also been forged by promotion of great British talents in alliance with more exotic foreign talents, especially during Fergie's reign. I don't see why this can't continue under LVG. Jones, Shaw??. Anyway my point is I feel under Fergie's latter years and under Moyes, we lost our way.
Principle 1? we became incredibly boring to watch, both away and then at home.
Principle 2? Promotion of players like Valencia, over someone like Nani... complete lack of flair throughout our team. No one willing to take a risk on the ball bar a young Januzaj, it was shameful to watch.
Principle 3? Moyes's arse-licking of Rooney, bumper new contract which lumbered us with him. LVG was impressed in Pre-season but will he continue to impress? if he doesn't quite cut it will LVG drop him, remains to be seen. Fergie in his peak years was a ruthless bastard, he'd get rid of anyone who didn't have United's best interests at heart or if they didn't merit a place in the team. The amount of deadwood we have now is unbelievable and it is attributed to Fergie and Moyes.
Principle 4? youth players played - no complaints here.
Principle 5? out of europe for one year, no biggie.. again no complaints.
Principle 6? Moyes was not in the mould of a great managers. Not a risk taker, a ditherer.. poor choice as manager.
For me the first three principles under Fergie/Moyes, we lost and also the 6th.. this club is built on great men, great managers. Era defining managers. LVG is in that mould.
Christ, it's like Kent Brockman's chat show out there in PunditLand:
"So, Mike/Rene/David, are United in crisis? Have they lost their identity? *whispers* Please say 'yes' - we've got another 15 minutes to fill."
"So, Mike/Rene/David, are United in crisis? Have they lost their identity? *whispers* Please say 'yes' - we've got another 15 minutes to fill."
It's interesting, we've always been known to give youth a chance and to develop players. Obviously we made big signings before but they were always supplementing the squad we had as opposed to overhauling it, which is what we are doing now. Does it mean we've lost our identity? No not for me. We've not been in this situation in a long time, never while football has been big business. Big signings were needed to get back to where we need to be. It looks worse that we've sold/loaned out a few home-grown players at the same time, but I don't think we've abandoned that. As far as I'm concerned we needed something substantial to help us get out of this slump. The players we had weren't good enough, was it worth sticking to our identity if the players we developed weren't good enough? For me, no.
We're obviously going to continue to put a lot of money into our youth system and our youth scouting as well. That won't change, we will get back to promoting youth and making big signings in positions that are needed. Van Gaal has always blooded youth everywhere he went, they just have to be good enough.
We're obviously going to continue to put a lot of money into our youth system and our youth scouting as well. That won't change, we will get back to promoting youth and making big signings in positions that are needed. Van Gaal has always blooded youth everywhere he went, they just have to be good enough.
It's been one single window of spending like this though, it's not like we've been doing it for years like Chelsea, City and Madrid have. This transfer window had to happen and it sets us up nicely for a few summers of penny pinching ways again for all we know. (not that we aren't loaded.)
All I'm saying is, enjoy it.
Phelan....hmmm
This is the guy who was single handedly responsible for, every defeat, every dropped point, every misplaced pass, yellow card etc during his entire reign (except for when Berbatov was with us, apart from that season he did ok). Why should anyone give a flying £%$% about his judgement?
This is the guy who was single handedly responsible for, every defeat, every dropped point, every misplaced pass, yellow card etc during his entire reign (except for when Berbatov was with us, apart from that season he did ok). Why should anyone give a flying £%$% about his judgement?
Was our identity broken when Fergie went out, a few years into his career with us, and bought several new players in a short space of time? Maybe it was easier to take because most of them were british, but that was a case of quick and expensive (for those days) rebuilding which must have blocked youngsters. Were they good enough? Probably not. Is Cleverley? No. Is Welbeck? Maybe, but to find out we need to put a lot of eggs into that basket. I don't know if we can do that right now.
Circumstances change. It's good that clubs have certain policies and they should try to stick to them. But for certain periods you have to adapt to situations and accept that for a while you'll have to do things differently. Manchester United didn't do the exact same thing all the time for decades and decades.
Circumstances change. It's good that clubs have certain policies and they should try to stick to them. But for certain periods you have to adapt to situations and accept that for a while you'll have to do things differently. Manchester United didn't do the exact same thing all the time for decades and decades.
Phelan has worked alongisde fergie long enough, he should know better that winning comes before everything else. He was with us when we went 2-3 years without a trophy and he understands the process of rebuilding. Every time a big club brings in a new manager he tries to force his own approach/thinking,nothing new in this. In fact, Welbeck should be glad to be getting a chance to play for a rival club, which is something fergie would never have allowed.
Didn't Carlos Tevez come in on loan and that signalled the end for Rossi as well ?
It is an almost like for like parallel, except one of them got over 100 games to prove himself while the other moved abroad and immediately made himself the standout young centre forward in football.
For Queen and country and big business!
It seems so. Looks like I overshot Rossi's development, whilst inadvertently reminding myself just how many hugely expensive outside strikers we've brought in down the years. Even though that's something we don't do.
Wish i knew mate, tbf though the likes of O'shea, Brown, Fletcher, Rafa, Evans, Welbeck and Cleverley have been deemed good enough by Fergie and have amassed a huge number of appearances between them over the years, their not on the scale of the class of 92 ability wise but most played their part in title winning sides and whatnot. Of coarse these were supplemented with buying plenty of players over the years too. It's just a load nonsense being spouted about atm, we'll continue as always to give youth a chance, whether they're good enough in the long term is another matter.
This 100%. Putting up with average players is the reason we are in the position we are. We have to buy world class players to recover, and we've done that.
When Arsenal won the double in 98 and Fergie went on a spending spree which led us to winning the Treble in 99, did you feel bad?
I know, and as I said, if it's only this window then I'm fine with it. If it happens next season as well, then I'm concerned. Also, last season we spent big on Fellaini and Mata also, so all in all, United has spent too much money lately, imo.
As for playing United youngsters or picking them young, I'm not that bothered - I like a mix of both really, but I do think that the local lads contribute with passion unlike some hired guns (especially looking at teams like City)
Danny wanted to leave because he wasn't going to be a starter, should LvG have just made him a starter so he'd stay even if he didn't think he was good enough to start? We wanted Danny to go on loan and give it some more time but he wanted the permanent move and we not only gave it to him but we sanctioned a move to a top club who we are competing with. I don't see how any of this is United losing their identity, especially with Wilson, Blackett, Januzaj, James and Lingard all set to be involved this season.
People need to wait and see how we integrate the top class signings with the youth before being so dramatic, especially when the sale that is ruffling so many feathers was the choice of the player not the club.
People need to wait and see how we integrate the top class signings with the youth before being so dramatic, especially when the sale that is ruffling so many feathers was the choice of the player not the club.
Some people would rather we identified as a first division club. You should always look to improve your team. We've done that. Welbeck wanted to go and he went but at the end of the day, the reason we didn't play him as our main striker were valid. People can bring up stats but it's no ones fault. Just how it is. United will still bring through youth. It's up to the kids to be good enough to challenge.
Welbeck has great attributes but the idea our identity is broken is over dramatic nonsense. If the club bring in top quality players...then we should be happy about that. There are areas of the pitch that need strengthening. Looking at the ages of our strikers, I don't think we have to fear about any young striker coming through.
We've talented young midfielders at the club but they're young too. Kids will still get a chance, and it's up to them to embrace it. We have a young defense but now you have to say Blackett is an option. There's there now and it's up to him to keep progressing. It will happen for others.
Welbeck has great attributes but the idea our identity is broken is over dramatic nonsense. If the club bring in top quality players...then we should be happy about that. There are areas of the pitch that need strengthening. Looking at the ages of our strikers, I don't think we have to fear about any young striker coming through.
We've talented young midfielders at the club but they're young too. Kids will still get a chance, and it's up to them to embrace it. We have a young defense but now you have to say Blackett is an option. There's there now and it's up to him to keep progressing. It will happen for others.
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Did you read my post? I said if it was a one time incident of much needed repair, I'm not too bothered, but if it becomes a recurring theme then I am concerned. Reading helps. (Also, we spent a lot of money last season as well) None of the players we have bought are particularly up and coming either - but as I was saying, maybe LvG sees that as necessary this window.
We need to improve our academy. Wilson and Januzaj (sort of one of ours) should be given real chances here and Pereira looks promising, but with Evans off the boil we haven't produced a quality defender in a frightening amount of time, and the same is obviously true at CM.
Flimsy enough concept, ain't it? I have an idea about what United should be like, sure. And we're further from that idea than we were some years ago. But it's just an idea. And it looks more and more sentimental the older I get. The club as such, the business, doesn't have an "identity" worth clinging to. It's just a business, its purpose being transparent enough. The last remnant of anything tangible you could connect to an "identity" was Fergie.
We've sold academy products before. It's no big deal in itself. I question the wisdom in letting Welbeck go (to Arsenal), though. He clearly offers something our other strikers don't. Unless RVP is actually surgery bound I don't understand the Falcao deal. That's technical, though - nothing do do with "identity", what little may be left of it.
We've sold academy products before. It's no big deal in itself. I question the wisdom in letting Welbeck go (to Arsenal), though. He clearly offers something our other strikers don't. Unless RVP is actually surgery bound I don't understand the Falcao deal. That's technical, though - nothing do do with "identity", what little may be left of it.
Poor show if you ask me, but as long as the spine of the team remains British I'm not too fussed yet. If we do the same next summer, then I will start complaining.
Yes, but you could argue that this summers spending should have happened last summer and Mata was bought because we were 6th in the table or around that at the time. When we get some stability back, I expect our spending to slow down again unless we really need a top player. For instance, RVP is getting on and Rooney isn't getting any younger either.
These summer signings will set us up for a long time though. We'll have a core to build around.
I wasn't being sarcastic, it was a genuine question.
I think we all have a tendency to get nostalgic when things aren't right. We compare everything that's happening now to how it used to be, and everything that isn't how it used to be reminds of how far away those glory days seem.
My point is this your nostalgia is playing tricks, this is how it used to be. Fergie used to regularly break the transfer record. As did Man Utd. Bryan Robson was a British record transfer long before Fergie started filling the side with record buys like Keane. Look at our 94 double winners. Euro 92 winning Danish keeper, Russian speedster on the wing, expensive Londoner in midfield, French genius up front. It was a team assembled, barring Giggs (and we had to buy Hughes back), with a lot of money: Big Pete, Parker, Brucey, Pallister, Ince, Keane, Kanchelskis, Giggs, Hughes, Cantona...all bar one were bought, and bought at prices really only Blackburn (at the time), maybe Liverpool, could contest. Then you look to the bench and the likes of Choccy, Robbo on the way out etc. Loads of money spent on them too.
As you know, before the class of 92, Man Utd bought big. Even after the class of 92 matured we still bought big. I can remember Fergie grinning at questions over how much he'd spent on Yorke. Fergie laughing off questions whether he was worried about how much he'd spent on Ruud after he'd had such a bad knee injury. Spending loads of money is something United always did until Glazer came in and started messing with our finances.
Maybe you are right, and that I simply trusted Ferguson more and that I'm concerned with the long term prospects considering LvG's age.
I know Fergie used to break the bank at times to buy players, but he also bought young promising players at the same time, and it hardly appeared like panic buys, which I somewhat get the feeling that this summer has resembled.
During the years between 2000-2010 we spent less than the other top clubs, but the last three years we have spent more money than City and Chelsea - that is a bit of a concern.
All that said, if this is done to create a new core then I'm fine with it, but if it becomes a recurring theme then I am concerned, and I support the club for what it is, not for the name.
Dennis Law was a record transfer back in 1962. Gordon McQueen too (British record at the time).
Interestingly (and this arguably says something about our historical "identity"), Danny is our third biggest outgoing transfer ever. If Cleverley had been sold for 8.5 mill (the figure mentioned) he would have made the top ten easily.
Interestingly (and this arguably says something about our historical "identity"), Danny is our third biggest outgoing transfer ever. If Cleverley had been sold for 8.5 mill (the figure mentioned) he would have made the top ten easily.
Some of the signings should have happened last summer, no doubt. It's important to refresh the squad regularly to keep the players sharp, but it's the way things have been done with huge sums and few exciting young players bar Shaw, who was expensive as hell.
Time will tell, but I do have my concerns if this is to continue - hopefully I will be proven 100% wrong and I will figuratively eat my hat. (I'm very picky when it comes to food)
Well the lack of courage thing has onl;y cropped up since Moyes took charge and, if you haven't noticed, doesn't yet seem to have been resolved by trying to buy our way out of it.
We weren't great in terms of style the year or two before that, but we've had years under Fergie where we've been dull or a bit rubbish. I think Fergie took his eye off the ball at some point after the second CL final with Barcelona. He suddenly started neglecting the idea of building a new team in order to cling on to the old one. That's part of what's set us along to where we are now, no doubt, but it's still pretty hard to argue it isn't a change of plan/identity.
Chelsea have been around as they are since 2003 and City what, 2009 was it? When Mourinho was first at Chelsea while they were buying everyone in sight, we had a poor team and were relying on people like Djemba Djemba. We didn't get out of that by going on a lunatic revolving door spending spree. We bought young players like Rio, Rooney, Ronaldo, Vidic, Evra, etc. and built ourselves a team that ended up being the best in Europe.
People act like buying instant success is now the only way. It isn't. In fact, all the very best teams down the years, up untiil the Barcelona side of just a couple of years ago, are generally made up of players who've at least in significant part, developed together as a team.
The issue with Welbeck is he's not some untalented cast out, or among the worst players on our books. He's actually a very good player who's just been tossed aside to facilitate some attempt at instant reward. People are saying he wanted out, but anything semi reliable suggests that he left because he was told he wasn't wanted at the club.
This isn't something that would have happened a few years ago and it's not really a massive surprise that it doesn't sit comfortably with some people. It doesn't sit comfortably with me. Not least because I look at our team/manager now and I'm less confident in it than I was about a month ago.
I'll take their opinions seriously as long as they're not talking about themselves...and in this case Phelan just seems to be offering an opinion. Unfortunately most of what either has had to say previously has been based around slagging off Moyes in order to try and award themselves some kind of credit for United's success.
Shaw and Herrera were both signings lined up before Van Gaal came in. Herrera I reckon there's a good chance was on United's list before Moyes even came in. Rojo I'm not sure about. Blind has just been bought in because Van Gaal likes him. If Van Gaal left in the summer I reckon there's a fair chance Blind would follow which isn't what I constitute as long term planning.
Well, Pogba I never understood but technically we didn't sell him, he decided to leave against the club's wishes,. Morrison is a derranged nutter who likes beating up his girlfriend. You'd like to think the club expects better standards than that, whatever its identity might be.
The first part you might have a point on, but I don't think it necessarily has aside from the attitude of people who run clubs changing...and even if it has, this is exactly what a change in identity would refer to so not sure where the argument of it not being, or claiming it is being somehow idiotic, comes from.
It's not a different situation at all. City's money is theirs, as is Chelsea's. We generate our own revenue, but the digs aimed at Chelsea and City (which mostly came from United fans, for the record), were aimed mainly at their spending and attempts to buy a team (i.e. "sould their soul"), which actually, is exactly what United are trying to do.
Some teams have more money than others. Life isn't fair...but trying to argue that what United have done this summer isn't different to what they try to do traditionally is a bit like painting your house bright pink and then claiming it always looked like that.
Completely agree with welbeck, hate the idea he's gone as ive rated him highly. but all im going to say is, about the bolded statement. The team we had at the very start of the window, was never going to grow and be successful it was one of the worst squads we've ever had, and we played the shittest football in the premier league to boot years on end. the ENTIRE reason we were able to "do the united way" bollocks was because we got a once in a lifetime goldmine of youth team products in 92 and we built the entire club around them with ferguson at the helm, with the best british talent (rio, rooney etc) mixed in. we were lucky and we made the absolute best out of it. the only other team who have been able to do it in a similar fashion are barca with their la masa graduate side xavi, pique, fabregas,iniesta,puyol,pedro,messi etc.
if you dont get one of these magical generations, unfortunately you do need to buy the right players to be successful, and the scraps and stopgap side we had strung together post 2008 culminated in our poorest side because we failed to replace that generation. blah blah blah we've all discussed this to death sorry
I don't disagree that much tbh. Particularly with the quality of the squad. It wasn't up to scratch in a lot of areas and that's part of what's invited the current turn of events on. Though I would say that doesn't mean you have to turf out the likes of Welbeck and in doing so turn a blind eye to development. Welbeck certainly wasn't one of the reasons why our team has turned shite...he's a player who would have offered something to anyone looking to buold a succesful long term team. There's plenty still at United who don't fit that bill...the difference is purely that we wouldn't have been able to flog them for £16m.
This is the part that I'm not at all comfortable with. As big a reason as any being that it gives me little confidence that the club actually has a clue what it's doing, rather than it constituting a change in identity.
Also worth pointing out that we did build a very succesful team between 2007/2012, the backbone of which was based around players like Vidic, Rio, Ronaldo, Carrick, Rooney, etc. Not the class of 92.
Blackett I suspect will disappear again as soon as Rojo can play, while apart from Januzaj the others haven't really been promoted at all, and of those only Wilson I reckon has a chance of being...and he wont play much with Falcao, Rooney, RVP, Mata all wanting games.
Don't get me wrong you can argue the reason for this is that the quality of the others might not end up being up to scratch, and I wouldn't disagree, but for the sake of accuracy.
Either way, someone would still see the flaw in it, like "Rooney has been here since 18, he deserves better". Thing is our club was driven under one man's vision for 26 years, Fergie was our indentity and tbh he kind of lost his touch in his latter years of his regime. Signed quick term fixes, didn't address our core problems, pissed of Pogba and Rooney, pardon me but how could those define the club's indentity? We've lost ourselves at the moment Fergie decided to retire, plus last year disaster really derailed us off the track, it wasn't just a hiccup.
Yes, selling Welbeck isn't "Manchester United Way" but some people have to acknowledge that the day Glazers took over United, we've turned into a proper business (and Fergie approved that mind), this is how business gets done. Sometimes you just need to go backward before you can move forward and I'm sure LvG has the long term plan for us to get back on track, the "united way" track or whatever (Feck it. This term sounds cheesy). In the meantime, unless you have better idea, just deal with it.
We had to buy our way back in (and hopefully we have/will), but Van Gaal's past record of youth promotion gives me encouragement for the future.
Where are people getting this information from?
He was told he can leave, and obviously he took up that option. Of course he probably had the option to stick around, but he's not going to work day in day out with a manager who's told him to leave because he doesn't want him.
I bet I can find an article of Pheelan saying we need a new top class center back. And there is currently no top class center back in England that isnt playing for Chelsea. So these same guy lamenting the sell of Welbeck want us to bring in a Hummels who will take Smalling/Jones place in the team...
Rossi was bought in the same window as Rooney, a year after Saha and three years after RvN. He wasn't "pushed down the roster by record signings" - he just didn't make the roster because they were already there.
I am sure we signed veron and RVN in 2001? And Ferdinand in 2002
Phelans mentality is one of the reasons why we missed out on so many players and e was part of the clubs regression, between 2009 to 2013
Phelans mentality is one of the reasons why we missed out on so many players and e was part of the clubs regression, between 2009 to 2013
I see the cynics are creeping out there's a surprise. Has Mike Phelan actually had a good thing to say about the club since he left? I know he was sacked but that was Moyes doing.