US Politics

[Carolina Red]

I was responding to tuition fees not cost of attendance. I went to chapel hill and its 8k. And most people who arent stupid with the loans they take can pay it off in a reasonable amount of time since professional new grad salaries are high.

Oh, I’m sorry, my graduating class left college during the fecking recession and were told to go to grad school because there were no jobs. Guess we shoulda just asked harder for those good paying newgrad jobs.

Oh, and the yearly cost of attendance for UNC Chapel Hill is: $25,600

 

[utdalltheway]

Trickle down economics in a nutshell.

Some great replies there.
Feckin Walmart.
I refuse to go in there, except to get my fishing license once a year and most of that money goes to the state.
Any retailer open on thanksgiving should be boycotted.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Not sure what you're getting at. The vast majority of students in my graduation class could not afford their school but did so with financial aid. Most of this is manageable if you study in state and have an employable major. The problem is accessibility and there are many cases where students just cant go to college but I think the problem starts even before that.

Kids who grow up in projects are at a disadvantage from the get go so even if you provide them financial aid they are more likely to drop out due to the poor schooling they received from the very start. Btw this problem is not unique to the states.
[/QUOTE]

Not sure what you're getting at. The vast majority of students in my graduation class could not afford their school but did so with financial aid. Most of this is manageable if you study in state and have an employable major. The problem is accessibility and there are many cases where students just cant go to college but I think the problem starts even before that.

Kids who grow up in projects are at a disadvantage from the get go so even if you provide them financial aid they are more likely to drop out due to the poor schooling they received from the very start. Btw this problem is not unique to the states.

But it is a thing that's worse here

 

[Billy Blaggs]

$48,000 to get a nursing degree.

 

[Eboue]

nurses are pointless though. they literally dont do anything

 

[Billy Blaggs]

nurses are pointless though. they literally dont do anything

Their title is Eboue. So I agree. Pointless

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Apparently US foreign intervention equals sending street gangs to other counties to destabilize them. Shamans logic, everyone!

He mentioned civil wars, there was an actual international war fought because of American corporations greed. The football war.

Intervention doesn’t mean CIA coups and commandos exclusively, even nowadays they are forced to forfeit soil fertility and drinking water to satiate the demand for avocado from first world countries.

 

[Carolina Red]

He mentioned civil wars, there was an actual international war fought because of American corporations greed. The football war.

Intervention doesn’t mean CIA coups and commandos exclusively, even nowadays they are forced to forfeit soil fertility and drinking water to satiate the demand for avocado from first world countries.

I wonder if he’s ever read any history on the United Fruit Company’s activities in Central America.

 

[NWRed]

 

[Brwned]

I was responding to tuition fees not cost of attendance. I went to chapel hill and its 8k. And most people who arent stupid with the loans they take can pay it off in a reasonable amount of time since professional new grad salaries are high.

You know you can use real facts to inform your opinions? It takes about 2 decades to pay off the average student loan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/cengage-how-long-it-takes-college-grads-to-pay-off-student-debt.html

Thinking the cause of that is people just being stupid with their time, money, career and whatever else, is exactly the reason you find so many people to disagree with here. It's not because they're progressive or activists or anything "extreme", they're just vaguely aware of reality outside their bubble.

The arguments you put forward are consistently just the talking points of an ideology fostered through propaganda and culture that is demonstrably untrue, and you're either unable or unwilling to challenge your assumptions and assess reality. It works because people like you think it's OK to agree with what they like to hear, and worse yet, to recycle those ideas blindly, rather than look at what's really there. And that's sad.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

You know you can use real facts to inform your opinions? It takes about 2 decades to pay off the average student loan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/cengage-how-long-it-takes-college-grads-to-pay-off-student-debt.html

Thinking the cause of that is people just being stupid with their time, money, career and whatever else, is exactly the reason you find so many people to disagree with here. It's not because they're progressive or activists or anything "extreme", they're just vaguely aware of reality outside their bubble.

The arguments you put forward are consistently just the talking points of an ideology fostered through propaganda and culture that is demonstrably untrue, and you're either unable or unwilling to challenge your assumptions and assess reality. It works because people like you think it's OK to agree with what they like to hear, and worse yet, to recycle those ideas blindly, rather than look at what's really there. And that's sad.

You've got my vote for post of the year.

 

[Adisa]

Who is this?

 

[NWRed]

Who is this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Winslow

Don Winslow is an American author[1] most recognized for his crime and mystery novels. Many of his books are set in California. Five of his novels feature private investigator Neal Carey. He has also co-written screenplays for Savages, Satori, and other adaptations of his novels with screenwriter/producer Shane Salerno.

 

[Adisa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Winslow

Thanks.

 

[Florida Man]

You know you can use real facts to inform your opinions? It takes about 2 decades to pay off the average student loan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/cengage-how-long-it-takes-college-grads-to-pay-off-student-debt.html

Thinking the cause of that is people just being stupid with their time, money, career and whatever else, is exactly the reason you find so many people to disagree with here. It's not because they're progressive or activists or anything "extreme", they're just vaguely aware of reality outside their bubble.

The arguments you put forward are consistently just the talking points of an ideology fostered through propaganda and culture that is demonstrably untrue, and you're either unable or unwilling to challenge your assumptions and assess reality. It works because people like you think it's OK to agree with what they like to hear, and worse yet, to recycle those ideas blindly, rather than look at what's really there. And that's sad.

Nicely put. The whole “it worked for me, why can’t you?” argument is an exhausted argument. Ironically that same argument is probably a big factor in so many deciding to go to college in the first place since it’s typically parents (boomer and gen x) pushing the narrative.

 

[shamans]

You know you can use real facts to inform your opinions? It takes about 2 decades to pay off the average student loan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/23/cengage-how-long-it-takes-college-grads-to-pay-off-student-debt.html

Thinking the cause of that is people just being stupid with their time, money, career and whatever else, is exactly the reason you find so many people to disagree with here. It's not because they're progressive or activists or anything "extreme", they're just vaguely aware of reality outside their bubble.

The arguments you put forward are consistently just the talking points of an ideology fostered through propaganda and culture that is demonstrably untrue, and you're either unable or unwilling to challenge your assumptions and assess reality. It works because people like you think it's OK to agree with what they like to hear, and worse yet, to recycle those ideas blindly, rather than look at what's really there. And that's sad.

Even my loan would take 2 decades to pay off if I kept it at the lowest rate and most people do that. It would come to around 120 or something a month. I wanted to get rid of the interest so aggressively put everything I earned into it.

Like I said a 20/25k loan with u.s salaries ain't that big of a deal in a lot of cases. Yes a lot of people suffer but no doubt there are a lot of dumb folks out there as well.

There are students who will go out of state, end up with 100k+ loans and major in bedsheets material. What do they expect? It's really simple. Check your average projected salary for your major. Dont let your loans exceed that. Most people with a college degree can earn around 35k (the average graduating class in the u.s is making 50k). In most cases it's possible to leave with 20-25k of student loans. You can easily pay that off and yes most do it over two decades sort of like a mortgage payment but it's not "crippling" if its 100 dollars a month.

And as I've said before, college needs to become affordable here. Some students are definitely getting priced out but this false narrative of college being reserved for ultra rich and leaving the rest with crippling loans all the time is false.

 

[shamans]

Nicely put. The whole “it worked for me, why can’t you?” argument is an exhausted argument. Ironically that same argument is probably a big factor in so many deciding to go to college in the first place since it’s typically parents (boomer and gen x) pushing the narrative.

Bullshit. It didnt just "work for me" it's a system that has a lot of working parts with a lot of flaws. Now if you want to lie about it and say it's all broken to push your agenda go ahead.

 

[Raoul]

Bullshit. It didnt just "work for me" it's a system that has a lot of working parts with a lot of flaws. Now if you want to lie about it and say it's all broken to push your agenda go ahead.

Worth noting that his sort of thing is also age dependent. People who grew up in the 70s and 80s had far less college debt to deal with, which is how the anecdotal mythology of a person hustling their way through college by working side jobs as waiters, bartenders, cooks etc continues to linger today. The big difference being tuition today is out of control and unlike generations past, most of the kids graduating in the present are looking at decades of debt repayment, irrespective of whether they worked side jobs during college. This is a major flaw in the US system that has to be corrected asap.

 

[Florida Man]

Bullshit. It didnt just "work for me" it's a system that has a lot of working parts with a lot of flaws. Now if you want to lie about it and say it's all broken to push your agenda go ahead.

Add that to the tally of things I never said.

 

[shamans]

Worth noting that his sort of thing is also age dependent. People who grew up in the 70s and 80s had far less college debt to deal with, which is how the anecdotal mythology of a person hustling their way through college by working side jobs as waiters, bartenders, cooks etc continues to linger today. The big difference being that tuition today is out of control and unlike generations past, most of the kids graduating in the present are looking at decades of debt repayment, irrespective of whether they worked side jobs during college. This is a major flaw in the US system that has to be corrected asap.

Of course it's a flaw. College is more expensive but just to remind everyone my whole point here it is not something reserved for the very rich -- someone on here said the top uni's in America are only reserved for those who can afford it. These uni's have a shit ton of lower middle class students. They're not reserved for "just the rich".

 

[Raoul]

Of course it's a flaw. College is more expensive but just to remind everyone my whole point here it is not something reserved for the very rich -- someone on here said the top uni's in America are only reserved for those who can afford it. These uni's have a shit ton of lower middle class students. They're not reserved for "just the rich".

True, although the very best ones are the most expensive, which given already skyrocketing tuition, makes them unaffordable for most ordinary people. This sort of thing only widens the wealth gap since those who can afford it aren't really affected by the debt, while those who can't are saddled with it for decades at the expense of investing in other parts of their futures.

 

[Grinner]

Top schools mostly take low-income students because of massive endowments from wealthy donors. It's not because they are affordable.

 

[Florida Man]

Of course it's a flaw. College is more expensive but just to remind everyone my whole point here it is not something reserved for the very rich -- someone on here said the top uni's in America are only reserved for those who can afford it. These uni's have a shit ton of lower middle class students. They're not reserved for "just the rich".

Another big flaw that doesn’t get mentioned enough is the amount of money tied up in administrative costs. For example, former University of Central Florida president John C Hitt was making up to a million dollars a year and living in a mansion on campus before he retired. But the fact that public, keyword public, universities cost any amount of thousands is absurd. It’s like forcing people to pay thousands for public elementary, middle, and high school. I think that’s the problem all of us are having here.

 

[Carolina Red]

Another big flaw that doesn’t get mentioned enough is the amount of money tied up in administrative costs. For example, former University of Central Florida president John C Hitt was making up to a million dollars a year and living in a mansion on campus before he retired. But the fact that public, keyword public, universities cost any amount of thousands is absurd. It’s like forcing people to pay thousands for public elementary, middle, and high school. I think that’s the problem all of us are having here.

And in the meantime, while Public university costs have almost doubled in SC since 2009, the state of South Carolina has almost cut in half the amount of money it gives to the public universities in the state in the same time period.

Top schools mostly take low-income students because of massive endowments from wealthy donors. It's not because they are affordable.

That’s a fact. I received one. My house cost less than what I’d have had to pay off in debt without the scholarships. And there were people there who weren’t on any scholarships and whose parents just cut a check every semester because they were “legacies”.

“Not for the rich” I was a charity case at that school. My roommate’s Dad is a VP for Wells-Fargo, his mom is an oncologist, and he married the daughter of some Umbro bigshot. They weren’t even the richest folks on our dorm hall.

 

[Brwned]

Even my loan would take 2 decades to pay off if I kept it at the lowest rate and most people do that. It would come to around 120 or something a month. I wanted to get rid of the interest so aggressively put everything I earned into it.

Like I said a 20/25k loan with u.s salaries ain't that big of a deal in a lot of cases. Yes a lot of people suffer but no doubt there are a lot of dumb folks out there as well.

There are students who will go out of state, end up with 100k+ loans and major in bedsheets material. What do they expect? It's really simple. Check your average projected salary for your major. Dont let your loans exceed that. Most people with a college degree can earn around 35k (the average graduating class in the u.s is making 50k). In most cases it's possible to leave with 20-25k of student loans. You can easily pay that off and yes most do it over two decades sort of like a mortgage payment but it's not "crippling" if its 100 dollars a month.

And as I've said before, college needs to become affordable here. Some students are definitely getting priced out but this false narrative of college being reserved for ultra rich and leaving the rest with crippling loans all the time is false.

You're doing exactly what Florida man said immediately after, and Carolina Red pointed out long ago. You're extrapolating your own experience onto the average person and then making a whole host of judgments based on that false anchoring point, with no evidence.

Your experience is conclusively not the average experience. "Most" people do not easily find a good graduate job that pays a decent sum of money. I did. I also paid off a similar amount of student loan debt in a similar amount of time. It's easy to think that I'm an average person so my experience is pretty average, but a quick glance at the statistics tells me that isn't remotely the norm. That isn't because I did things right, or because most other people are idiots. It's partly down to good fortune, partly down to social capital, partly due to other forces I don't understand.

Things like social capital - my parents knowing someone in business who had the influence to create a job opening - are these almost invisible factors that can be the difference between the start of a good career and starting a lifetime of temporary, low paid jobs. And of course they're disproportionately weighted towards families with healthy incomes, good jobs, etc. It all stacks on top of each other, making this very "simple" task significantly more difficult when you don't have access to it.

Your ideology leads you to totally disregard that, and attribute all of the postive outcomes you've had to your own hard work, your own good planning. You can't even contemplate that there are other forces that hold people back, which mean that that "small" amount of money is barely manageable for significant portions of the population, and it's only getting worse, hence people deeming it broken". No one is saying it's unfixable, but you're absolutely living in the clouds if you think it's jurlst a few issues here or there. That's a fecked up system.

Why not finish with a fact.

The average student loan debt for 2016 college graduates who borrowed to get through school was $37,172. If a 2016 graduate took the standard repayment plan for the $37,172 borrowed – 10 years, at 4.29% interest rate – they would be paying $382 a month for the next decade.

How many people in the US do you think find $382 a month is easy to find? How many people do you think can work a normal amount of hours, satisfy their basic needs, and have some disposable income left over for normal stuff like going out for dinner, while paying that amount of student debt? I think you'd be surprised by the real numbers. And that's not even looking at people that went to the ludicrously expensive unis.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

 

[Carolina Red]

You're doing exactly what Florida man said immediately after, and Carolina Red pointed out long ago. You're extrapolating your own experience onto the average person and then making a whole host of judgments based on that false anchoring point, with no evidence.

Your experience is conclusively not the average experience. "Most" people do not easily find a good graduate job that pays a decent sum of money. I did. I also paid off a similar amount of student loan debt in a similar amount of time. It's easy to think that I'm an average person so my experience is pretty average, but a quick glance at the statistics tells me that isn't remotely the norm. That isn't because I did things right, or because most other people are idiots. It's partly down to good fortune, partly down to social capital, partly due to other forces I don't understand.

Things like social capital - my parents knowing someone in business who had the influence to create a job opening - are these almost invisible factors that can be the difference between the start of a good career and starting a lifetime of temporary, low paid jobs. And of course they're disproportionately weighted towards families with healthy incomes, good jobs, etc. It all stacks on top of each other, making this very "simple" task significantly more difficult when you don't have access to it.

Your ideology leads you to totally disregard that, and attribute all of the postive outcomes you've had to your own hard work, your own good planning. You can't even contemplate that there are other forces that hold people back, which mean that that "small" amount of money is barely manageable for significant portions of the population, and it's only getting worse, hence people deeming it broken". No one is saying it's unfixable, but you're absolutely living in the clouds if you think it's jurlst a few issues here or there. That's a fecked up system.

Why not finish with a fact.



How many people in the US do you think find $382 a month is easy to find? How many people do you think can work a normal amount of hours, satisfy their basic needs, and have some disposable income left over for normal stuff like going out for dinner, while paying that amount of student debt? I think you'd be surprised by the real numbers. And that's not even looking at people that went to the ludicrously expensive unis.

Well said.

 

[shamans]

You're doing exactly what Florida man said immediately after, and Carolina Red pointed out long ago. You're extrapolating your own experience onto the average person and then making a whole host of judgments based on that false anchoring point, with no evidence.

Your experience is conclusively not the average experience. "Most" people do not easily find a good graduate job that pays a decent sum of money. I did. I also paid off a similar amount of student loan debt in a similar amount of time. It's easy to think that I'm an average person so my experience is pretty average, but a quick glance at the statistics tells me that isn't remotely the norm. That isn't because I did things right, or because most other people are idiots. It's partly down to good fortune, partly down to social capital, partly due to other forces I don't understand.

Things like social capital - my parents knowing someone in business who had the influence to create a job opening - are these almost invisible factors that can be the difference between the start of a good career and starting a lifetime of temporary, low paid jobs. And of course they're disproportionately weighted towards families with healthy incomes, good jobs, etc. It all stacks on top of each other, making this very "simple" task significantly more difficult when you don't have access to it.

Your ideology leads you to totally disregard that, and attribute all of the postive outcomes you've had to your own hard work, your own good planning. You can't even contemplate that there are other forces that hold people back, which mean that that "small" amount of money is barely manageable for significant portions of the population, and it's only getting worse, hence people deeming it broken". No one is saying it's unfixable, but you're absolutely living in the clouds if you think it's jurlst a few issues here or there. That's a fecked up system.

Why not finish with a fact.



How many people in the US do you think find $382 a month is easy to find? How many people do you think can work a normal amount of hours, satisfy their basic needs, and have some disposable income left over for normal stuff like going out for dinner, while paying that amount of student debt? I think you'd be surprised by the real numbers. And that's not even looking at people that went to the ludicrously expensive unis.

No I am not just using my own personal experience. I was way more fortunate than others in some ways (even the privilege of knowing how improtant it was to get into college from a young age is something I realize) so you're misunderstanding me.

You want stats so I'll explain what I'm saying through your own stats. First of all, averages are not the best number for things like students loans. You and I both know students who choose to go out of state or major in unemployable degrees and accumale 100k+ in student loans. Before someone points out minorities who are genuinely priced out of college, I'm not disregarding that but there are definitely students who go for a more expensive route.

For instance, most students will live in a dorm or private housing even if their family lives in the same town. Why? "College experience". Most students will not even consider going to a community college first (which costs less than half of colleges) and then transfer. Why not take advantage of this facility? "College experience". The American "college experience" costs too much.

For this reason a median value makes more sense than an average. The median student loan is $17000. Anyway suppose we do use the average which you said was thirty something:

According to the same website you used to quote that average, "experts predict you would need a salary of $47,000" to successfully pay of these loans. The average graduate salary in 2018 was $50,000. Now you cant pick and chose between averages. I understand that 50k is skewed due to higher salaries but then so is that 30 something student loan average.

So statistically, on average(literally), student loans are absolutely payable. This is not my experience but actual statiscitc that you used. It is also common sense. Even if you did the 300 dollar payment to average American apartment rent (that most new grads are expected to pay) you are gaining more capital than your average new grad in western Europe. (The average new grad in London makes $36k and it's around $35k for Netherlands I believe). Add to this higher rent costs (in Europe in general) and the average American new grad is coming out way ahead.

And once again I agree college in the U.S needs to become more affordable and accessible. But my opinion is we lose the kids we lose way before they even get a chance to apply to colleges.

Nothing here I used is my own experience (except for higher grocery expenses in europe).

 

[Adisa]

"The party of freedom"

 

[Carolina Red]

For instance, most students will live in a dorm or private housing even if their family lives in the same town. Why? "College experience". Most students will not even consider going to a community college first (which costs less than half of colleges) and then transfer. Why not take advantage of this facility? "College experience". The American "college experience" costs too much.

Okay, here’s how a couple of folks trying to do college “the smart way” still get fecked by this system...

I went to college for free through a combination of a few earned scholarships.

My wife went to a state school and commuted from her parents house because they’re working class. She got accepted into the #2 nursing school in the state, and community college credits don’t transfer into it.

I graduated my undergrad with 0 debt and 0 job opportunity because of the Recession, so I went to grad school. By the time I finished my grad school, schools were hiring teachers again and I was employed. My masters put me $34,000 in debt, because there are no MA scholarships and my family is working class.

Even with commuting, she had to take out loans for everything because her family couldn’t afford it. She graduated from a state school she commuted to with $25,000 in debt.

So out the gate, because we are working class and because financiers wrecked the economy, just to get employed as a teacher and as a nurse, we were a combined $59,000 in debt because of student loans.

My wife is now about 1.5 years away from finishing her nurse practitioners degree. She’s now added another $50,000 in student loan debt to attain the highest degree she can in her profession.

So please, lay off with the “up by the bootstraps” nonsense and listen to what the kids of working class folks are having to do in the real world. The fact that we had to go that far into debt to get our degrees and actually advance in our field, due to who our parents are and what the economy did is absurd. The thought that what is going on to lead to $1.4 trillion in student loan debt is something manageable is equally absurd. The system isn’t flawed, it’s broken and there are better ways to run it staring us in the face, but folks who think along the lines that you’ve shown are part of why the can keeps getting kicked down the road.

 

[Charlie Foley]

Oh damn I didnt read that and thought it was "and" holiday pay.

Once again read things in detail - you wouldn't be this confused if you did!

Same page

 

[Carolina Red]

Same page

Also...

I had to take student loans worth 20k to go. I paid them off in first 3 years of employment. I had another friend who grew up in a household with 45k income. He had 30k loans and is almost done with them.

The vast majority of students in my graduation class could not afford their school but did so with financial aid. Most of this is manageable if you study in state and have an employable major.

I went to chapel hill and its 8k. And most people who arent stupid with the loans they take can pay it off in a reasonable amount of time since professional new grad salaries are high

Even my loan would take 2 decades to pay off if I kept it at the lowest rate and most people do that. It would come to around 120 or something a month

———————————————————————

No I am not just using my own personal experience

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

The mere notion that your choice of higher education is predicated on the expected income is highly troubling. The value of knowledge shouldn’t be quantified by society’s fleeting standards.

 

[shamans]

Okay, here’s how a couple of folks trying to do college “the smart way” still get fecked by this system...

I went to college for free through a combination of a few earned scholarships.

My wife went to a state school and commuted from her parents house because they’re working class. She got accepted into the #2 nursing school in the state, and community college credits don’t transfer into it.

I graduated my undergrad with 0 debt and 0 job opportunity because of the Recession, so I went to grad school. By the time I finished my grad school, schools were hiring teachers again and I was employed. My masters put me $34,000 in debt, because there are no MA scholarships and my family is working class.

Even with commuting, she had to take out loans for everything because her family couldn’t afford it. She graduated from a state school she commuted to with $25,000 in debt.

So out the gate, because we are working class and because financiers wrecked the economy, just to get employed as a teacher and as a nurse, we were a combined $59,000 in debt because of student loans.

My wife is now about 1.5 years away from finishing her nurse practitioners degree. She’s now added another $50,000 in student loan debt to attain the highest degree she can in her profession.

So please, lay off with the “up by the bootstraps” nonsense and listen to what the kids of working class folks are having to do in the real world. The fact that we had to go that far into debt to get our degrees and actually advance in our field, due to who our parents are and what the economy did is absurd. The thought that what is going on to lead to $1.4 trillion in student loan debt is something manageable is equally absurd. The system isn’t flawed, it’s broken and there are better ways to run it staring us in the face, but folks who think along the lines that you’ve shown are part of why the can keeps getting kicked down the road.

I was asked to give statistics of the average American instead of my own personal situation, which I did and now you're bringing up your own person situation. As I said before problems exist especially with regards to affordability but the average student can pay back loans and have a pretty good salary out of college.

BTW if you think there is a world in which you can become a nurse practitioner with no money owed AND make the money they make on average right now you need to stop listening to Warren and Bernie. Economy doesn't work that way.

The mere notion that your choice of higher education is predicated on the expected income is highly troubling. The value of knowledge shouldn’t be quantified by society’s fleeting standards.

This mere notion is how the free market works and why you have a platform to share your absurd views with me on the CAF right now. You're free to study blankets developed in the 13th century but don't expect the value of your knowledge to be less than that of in demand sector jobs.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

This mere notion is how the free market works and why you have a platform to share your absurd views with me on the CAF right now. You're free to study blankets developed in the 13th century but don't expect the value of your knowledge to be less than that of in demand sector jobs.

You are really a brain genius.

The point is precisely that you are not free to study whatever you want because it’s locked behind a paywall. But sure, let’s all learn to code, our corporate masters demand it.

 

[berbatrick]

Border Patrol threw away migrants’ belongings. A janitor saved and photographed them


https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2019-12-02/tom-kiefer-exhibition-el-sueno-americano

 

[Florida Man]

People in Germany can study their undergraduate at virtually no cost. Medical school is €8000 a year. They must not know how the free market works.

The average American can pay off student loan debt. Student loan debt is at record highs of over a trillion dollars. The numbers don't add up but that's just how the free market works.

Teachers are in demand sector jobs. Becoming a teacher costs anywhere from $50,000–100,000+. Average salary starts off in the $30,000-40,000 range. If you think that's bad, then you don't understand the free market.

Also...

The caf: *literally no one talking about studying blankets made in the 13th century*
Shamans: I'm going to indirectly accuse caf members of wanting to study Blankets Made in the 13th Century. What an own. I am very smart.

 

[Eboue]

Shamans getting boiled again

 

[NWRed]

 

[Carolina Red]

I was asked to give statistics of the average American instead of my own personal situation, which I did

Actually, no... you rejected the statistics on the average American because you didn’t like them and instead chose the median American.

now you're bringing up your own person situation

Yeah, I did, to counter the bullshit narrative you keep pushing that people who are carrying a heavy student loan debt burden “just didn’t do College the right way”.

BTW if you think there is a world in which you can become a nurse practitioner with no money owed AND make the money they make on average right now you need to stop listening to Warren and Bernie. Economy doesn't work that way.

Germany doesn’t exist? They have a whole system of college and grad school that doesn’t saddle people with massive debt.

Also, the notion that you just casually presented, that in order to attain a high degree that is lucrative means that you must also become heavily debt ridden, is absolutely ludicrous and goes to show just how down the rabbit hole your ideas truly are.