You’ve swallowed the kool aid hardUS Politics
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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You’ve swallowed the kool aid hardLack of good politicians is a symptom of what I described.
It’s one side. Each country has it’s own story but there are some that are rich (in minerals, etc) that don’t do a thing for their people.
I grew up listening to how the Brits we’re responsible for the woes in Ireland. But they left in the 1920s.
At some point you have to start looking in the mirror.
“At some point”... what point is that exactly? And who gets to decide?
Huge swaths of Africa was subjected to 400 years of subjugation by Europe. They’re supposed to just be over it in 60?
Very similar to the argument made here in the States about how African Americans should “look in the mirror more” rather than face the fact that 350 years of slavery and segregation might still have an effect on their culture today.
The asshole cop thing blows my mind. I read an article a little while ago on how most states have
EDIT - Never got around to finishing this post.... I’ll Leave you in suspense and pick it up again tomorrow.
It’s a good idea in principle but I can imagine there must be a number of deaths each year from old people or low wealth people who fear going to A&E in case it’s nothing.
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Cheers, for me it makes some sense to pay a nominal amount up front to deter people from abusing the A&E system. Not so sure about the nightly "hotel" fee though as that could really add up unless there's some sort of limit?
The African American experience in the US is very different. They’re still subject to racism today so the struggle continues.
As for former colonies in Africa and elsewhere, I’d still argue that it’s up to them to forge their future. Do you think they should wait a bit?
Yeah, I was thinking that. You could make it refundable for those who needed the care. That might still deter people who are undecided though.
Obviously not what I was saying, at all.
I think you are being a bit impatient. It takes more than 60 years Post-colonial rule to overcome everything that happened to you during the 400 years of it.
And sure, the African American experience is different. It’s your argument that I’m saying is similar.
Because private healthcare is insanely priced.
Those TOP universities are only for the mega rich. They have better funding (from donations from the mega rich) better teachers (funded by the mega rich) and better facilities
I'm not sure but I think there is a limit to the nightly fee or else you can definitely 'apply' to have it reduced. Now I don't want to paint a perfect picture because we do have healthcare problems in Ireland (in fact some serious ones but they are because of government issues instead of systematic ones), in fact some very worrying ones (a thread for Irish problems) but we certainly won't bankrupt someone for care and we have private hospitals for those that choose or can afford to pay. I don't agree with the private but it's not as bad as needing insurance. It ain't a paradise at all but we definitely have opportunities for education and at least most healthcare. I write this by the way while not having 'liked' the Irish government for almost my entire lifetime (hence the sometimes forgetting how good we have it in certain things).
Sound mate. I'm honestly worried for the first time in ages. I know we are living in one of the most peaceful times in history but the inequality is growing and their seems to be an honest divide that I either have been ignorant to or haven't seen before. It's almost feeling like the bubble of capitalism is in it's take over or burst phase. The internet should have armed us with information like never before but it's just made propaganda easier to transmit. I remember hearing an American politician refer to Norway as a 'failed socialist' country while it's generally admired in Europe and realised that we can still be World's apart.
If you had (could afford) top education and top healthcare and dentalhere what do you reckon it would cost?
Look up the Gilded Age. I’m convinced we are living through a 2nd cycle of it.
Any particular good sources for it or is a general internet search good enough?
@Billy Blaggs if you read your original message to me my reply is there! I messed up the reply somewhere along the way!
So we do a Leaving Cert (like a high school thing) and you can get upto 600 points depending on your results in usually 7 subjects (100 points max for every subject and they take your best 6 from 7). We have Universities (considered the 'best' but not always the best for many qualifications) and Institutes of Technologies (not as prestigious but sometimes their courses are better). It depends on what you want to do that determines the best place to go. An IT will generally offer a qualification at lower points. So you can do Engineering in a University for 550 points but you can do it in an IT for 450 points and so on. If you don't get enough 'points' you can do a PLC course for a year or two depending on what you want to get into the course you want.
So Education wise there are definitely private secondary schools (high schools in USA), I have no idea how much they are but they are very rare. I 'think' there is one is my county but I'm not sure. Colleges are generally gotten into on a points system. So basically every secondary student does a Leaving Cert and the college you get into is dependant on your results. The points change year on year depending on demand, so Law might be 600 points one year but 580 the next, however there are usually lower point options in other colleges for the same qualification (law in one college might 580 points but 500 in another). So Trinity College is our most prestigious but it does hold courses that are less points than other colleges for the same qualification (so a course in Trinity might be 400 while the same course in another might be 480 despite Trinity being the more 'prestigious' college). The demand for a certain course in a certain college determines how may 'points' it is. However if you take an Accounting degree it maybe 500 points in a University but 400 points in an Institute of Technology (IT) and the IT may give you a better educational experience. So basically any kid of any background can attend any course in any college if they perform well enough, but even then someone who performs worse can still do the same degree in a different place. Subjects like Medicine will always have a big point threshold but if you don't get enough points you can take classes after secondary school (high school) to get into these courses.
Funnily enough 'private colleges' in Ireland are more for people who didn't perform well enough in secondary school (high school) who don't want to spend a year or two taking classes and get into normal college. For example I've a friend who didn't try in school (because youth!) but his parents paid for him to go to private college and he's now a barrister. Basically he paid for a course he didn't enough points for and didn't want to spend a year or 2 more to get into. Because it's so based on your points it would be better for a 'rich' kid to just do well than have to pay for private college. I think my friends private college was 5000 euro a year or thereabouts so roughly 20000 euro for the entire degree.
So I have a friend who done medicine in Trinity (our Harvard) who was dirt poor and didn't need any scholarship to get there, she's just an incredibly intelligent girl. Also she didn't graduate while thousands in debt after getting her degree. Shout out to her because medicine is incredibly difficult and we barely seen her for 7 years. I've never met a more driven person!!
As for health insurance I tired to do a quick quote but couldn't get a price so unfortunately I have no idea.
Hope my post isn't gibberish, it was actually kind of hard to contextualise our education system!!!!
Actually here is it! @Billy Blaggs
So Education wise there are definitely private secondary schools (high schools in USA), I have no idea how much they are but they are very rare. I 'think' there is one is my county but I'm not sure. Colleges are generally gotten into on a points system. So basically every secondary student does a Leaving Cert and the college you get into is dependant on your results. The points change year on year depending on demand, so Law might be 600 points one year but 580 the next, however there are usually lower point options in other colleges for the same qualification (law in one college might 580 points but 500 in another). So Trinity College is our most prestigious but it does hold courses that are less points than other colleges for the same qualification (so a course in Trinity might be 400 while the same course in another might be 480 despite Trinity being the more 'prestigious' college). The demand for a certain course in a certain college determines how may 'points' it is. However if you take an Accounting degree it maybe 500 points in a University but 400 points in an Institute of Technology (IT) and the IT may give you a better educational experience. So basically any kid of any background can attend any course in any college if they perform well enough, but even then someone who performs worse can still do the same degree in a different place. Subjects like Medicine will always have a big point threshold but if you don't get enough points you can take classes after secondary school (high school) to get into these courses.
Funnily enough 'private colleges' in Ireland are more for people who didn't perform well enough in secondary school (high school) who don't want to spend a year or two taking classes and get into normal college. For example I've a friend who didn't try in school (because youth!) but his parents paid for him to go to private college and he's now a barrister. Basically he paid for a course he didn't enough points for and didn't want to spend a year or 2 more to get into. Because it's so based on your points it would be better for a 'rich' kid to just do well than have to pay for private college. I think my friends private college was 5000 euro a year or thereabouts so roughly 20000 euro for the entire degree.
So I have a friend who done medicine in Trinity (our Harvard) who was dirt poor and didn't need any scholarship to get there, she's just an incredibly intelligent girl. Also she didn't graduate while thousands in debt after getting her degree. Shout out to her because medicine is incredibly difficult and we barely seen her for 7 years. I've never met a more driven person!!
As for health insurance I tired to do a quick quote but couldn't get a price so unfortunately I have no idea.
Hope my post isn't gibberish, it was actually kind of hard to contextualise our education system!!!!
Actually here is it! @Billy Blaggs
@Billy Blaggs so to answer the health insurance question I found a site that gave me a quote of 49.46 euro a month. So basically 593.52 euro a year. I've no idea if this is bad or good as my new job offers insurance to me.
General internet search will get you the gist of it.
The PBS series The Gilded Age is a good watch. Also, the book Rebirth of a Nation by Jackson Lears is fantastic.
Sound, I'll look into it.
What hoops did I jump through?You've jumped through some amount of hoops in this exchange.
Perhaps all those who voted to Leave the European Union, because of immigration, were just following in the footsteps of William Wilberforce?
Immigration by definition is just the act of moving from one place to another to live in, the reason behind that doesn’t matter, a drought, a forest fire, a small Ice Age, a tyrant, slaver’s whip behind your back. Human history is one long act of immigration. Just because you have a very narrow view of what constitutes an immigrant doesn’t invalidate it’s actual broader meaning. Just like your ignorance of Chinese history btw. Imagine thinking that no one ever wanted to explore and live in the longest standing continuous civilization in human history.
Also thanks @Carolina Red for saving me the troubles of answering @shamans. Alas, you can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink it.
Stating that slaves are immigrants. One isn't a synonym for the other.
^ Fixed. You forgot to add the movement from a mother's womb though.
My view of what constitutes an immigrant is narrow because it doesn't include slaves?
I just highlighted your ignorance of the difference between China and the US. And China has a long history of emigration btw, not immigration. You should read up on it.
Didn't say that....mate.
Hmm...
Saying the Chinese have a long history of emigration is like saying the (immigrated)Americans have a long history of emigration because they expanded from the original 13 colonies.
But I guess anything is long when you are a country barely out of infancy.
But I guess anything is long when you are a country barely out of infancy.
I’m pretty sure he’s Irish anyway
Did you not get what I was hinting at? i.e where are the descendants of this multitude of people in present day China?
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Err...not really.
In any case I can see you're hanging your hat on internal migration.
Are you describing your own country (or place of residence) there?
I am indeed.
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You really don’t know shit about China, do you?
It’s an incredibly ignorant argument, there’s nothing ‘internal’ about the multitude of Eurasian steppes tribes/ethnics who have settled in Chinese mainland over the centuries, nor the Middle Asia ethnic Muslims who even now have a sizeable presence in Shanxii province ( old Chang’an)
They are different for me. OZ as a former British penance colony indeed fits the description. Vietnam is old going by any standard.
I thought there was a reason this exchange looked funny...
Before this discussion fulfils the Chinese version of Godwin's Law with mention of Chairman Mao and the Great Leap Forward, let's just go back a bit. You originally asked why it is you don't see anyone talking about the Chinese Dream. The United States is a country that was built on migration, and indeed has (or had...before Trump) it as an ideal; this notion that you can go there and become part of the American Dream. It's foundational to the country in other words and that's why you do see people talking about the American Dream. That's not, to the best of my knowledge, the case with China.
Ha.
Just for the record though - I didn't claim that America was a City on the Hill, or indeed a rotting wasteland.
The United States is a country built on conquest and exploitation like many others in the course of human history, and the American Dream is a shiny layer of paint on top to cover up that rotten reality.
If you missed my repeated inference to ‘myths’ and ‘legend’ and ‘con’ when referring to it in this thread, then sure I can see where the confusion with Chinese Dream sarcasm stemmed from.
If you missed my repeated inference to ‘myths’ and ‘legend’ and ‘con’ when referring to it in this thread, then sure I can see where the confusion with Chinese Dream sarcasm stemmed from.
That's your interpretation, and not surprising given your heritage.
As unpalatable as it may seem though, of all countries in the world the United States has the largest immigrant population (at just over 46 million). There's a reason for that.
I probably did - my apologies. I don't venture into the RedCafe politics threads that much as they're not really a place for serious debate.
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For the mega rich? I had to take student loans worth 20k to go. I paid them off in first 3 years of employment. I had another friend who grew up in a household with 45k income. He had 30k loans and is almost done with them.
Once again it's not that black and white. There are problems but plenty of people in the U.S also get financial aid (like myself) and are able to afford college. In fact, a vast majority of people can get into university, leave with around 15-20k debt and pay that off in a few years. It's not perfect at all. Tuition fees have gotten out of hand and it needs to be dealt with but the media will have you believe all the schools are reserved for the rich here.
Once again, there's definitely a problem but you have to look at both sides. The whole "tuition is free in Norway and should be in the U.S" is an apples to oranges comparison. I can't go into it here because 1) too long of a topic 2) you probably still wouldn't accept it and that's fine since there are experts/highly qualified people who stand on the other side of the issue as well so that's something we would have to disagree on.
Good for you that you enjoy Irish government but you don't see me bashing Ireland so not sure what you're trying to prove to me. Ireland and the United States cannot be compared they hold different positions in the world and a country like America faces completely different problems than Ireland.
If it makes you happy to say I'm "brainwashed" by the rich then good for you but that's definitely not the case. I am studying the bigger picture and I don't like to take a black and white stance. Besides, the first step in resolving anything is to be honest about issues and not sensationalize it.
america is a rotting wasteland though
At least read the articles you google search. The household income one is click bait. Incomes had been rising steeply and that rise has slowed down.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education
U.S is ranked number 2 on this site. Also, google top universities in the world.
This is the sort of research that makes you an anti capitalist!
I'm sorry but if someone (not just going to point you out) truly believes central and south American immigration is primarily due to United States destabilizing these countries they're deluded.