US Men's National Team Discussion

I doubt any of the first part is likely to happen but if there’s any truth to it, Klopp would suit the US better. Not sure what’s so controversial about the second part. We wouldn’t have been the first country to do this, though we shouldn’t need to. The talent exists here but for structure-related reasons, it’s not being harnessed fully yet.

You might not think it’s controversial, and I respect that. I’m not sure I even think it’s controversial. But I do think it gives a false impression of where the US are in terms of their development, and their ability to produce players. The bulk of the squad, and all the good players, have received a massive part of their football education abroad by moving to Europe when they are 16, 17 or 18. Okay, that’s fairly understandable, but just off the top of my head the US has key players like Musah, Robinson, Balogun and Cardoso, who have never stepped a foot inside the US system at any point of their lives, not at youth level, nor adult. Three Englishmen and a Brazilian. They are complete, 100% products of other countries, and spent their entire lives living in those countries. Three of those are nailed on starters, and amongst the US’s very best players. Take them out of the squad and the USMNT looks very different.

I think stuff like this matters, because it’s papering over the cracks. Without young US players going to, predominantly, the Bundesliga in their teens, and the US scouring for eligible players completely developed by other countries, then they’d have virtually nothing to stick out on to the field. It’s normal of course for the best young players to leave and go to Europe, it happens with Brazil and Argentina - for example - the second phenomena is not one I am a fan of at all, and it grates to hear of Lalas talking about a golden generation - like it’s some triumph - when half of it is someone else’s.

Youth coaching in the US is utter dogshit, and I should know, I’ve been in and around the clubs, academies, and industry over here, since 2008. It’s a pay to play system, with antiquated methodologies, and a ton of corruption and nepotism. Most of the actual talent in this country, at youth level, comes from the Latino community - which is massive and football crazy - but they are largely disenfranchised from the official, sanctioned US soccer system which costs an absolute fortune for any parent to participate in. I’ve witnessed games where MLS academy A-teams, predominantly filled with rich white kids, have played in unsanctioned games against local Latino club sides and been absolutely demolished 5 or 6-0. Then a few weeks later seen the same MLS academy team making the semi-finals of national tournaments. It’s a complete joke, and a huge pool of talent is going completely ignored. With the exception of Dallas and NY Red Bulls, there are very few MLS academies that ever produce a player worth anything at all at a professional level. And those that do come through, have to get to Europe as young as possible in order to get proper coaching and make it to the top level.

It’s all very well people prattling on about who the coach should be, but if the US weren’t essentially pinching players from other countries, it wouldn’t matter who the coach was - because the team would be hopeless. This to me is a bigger issue, as the entire system here is completely broken.
 
You might not think it’s controversial, and I respect that. I’m not sure I even think it’s controversial. But I do think it gives a false impression of where the US are in terms of their development, and their ability to produce players. The bulk of the squad, and all the good players, have received a massive part of their football education abroad by moving to Europe when they are 16, 17 or 18. Okay, that’s fairly understandable, but just off the top of my head the US has key players like Musah, Robinson, Balogun and Cardoso, who have never stepped a foot inside the US system at any point of their lives, not at youth level, nor adult. Three Englishmen and a Brazilian. They are complete, 100% products of other countries, and spent their entire lives living in those countries. Three of those are nailed on starters, and amongst the US’s very best players. Take them out of the squad and the USMNT looks very different.

I think stuff like this matters, because it’s papering over the cracks. Without young US players going to, predominantly, the Bundesliga in their teens, and the US scouring for eligible players completely developed by other countries, then they’d have virtually nothing to stick out on to the field. It’s normal of course for the best young players to leave and go to Europe, it happens with Brazil and Argentina - for example - the second phenomena is not one I am a fan of at all, and it grates to hear of Lalas talking about a golden generation - like it’s some triumph - when half of it is someone else’s.

Youth coaching in the US is utter dogshit, and I should know, I’ve been in and around the clubs, academies, and industry over here, since 2008. It’s a pay to play system, with antiquated methodologies, and a ton of corruption and nepotism. Most of the actual talent in this country, at youth level, comes from the Latino community - which is massive and football crazy - but they are largely disenfranchised from the official, sanctioned US soccer system which costs an absolute fortune for any parent to participate in. I’ve witnessed games where MLS academy A-teams, predominantly filled with rich white kids, have played in unsanctioned games against local Latino club sides and been absolutely demolished 5 or 6-0. Then a few weeks later seen the same MLS academy team making the semi-finals of national tournaments. It’s a complete joke, and a huge pool of talent is going completely ignored. With the exception of Dallas and NY Red Bulls, there are very few MLS academies that ever produce a player worth anything at all at a professional level. And those that do come through, have to get to Europe as young as possible in order to get proper coaching and make it to the top level.

It’s all very well people prattling on about who the coach should be, but if the US weren’t essentially pinching players from other countries, it wouldn’t matter who the coach was - because the team would be hopeless. This to me is a bigger issue, as the entire system here is completely broken.
100% dead on correct.
 
Huh...so I guess that Instagram dad training for the US National team in time for the World Cup actually has a chance...
 
You might not think it’s controversial, and I respect that. I’m not sure I even think it’s controversial. But I do think it gives a false impression of where the US are in terms of their development, and their ability to produce players. The bulk of the squad, and all the good players, have received a massive part of their football education abroad by moving to Europe when they are 16, 17 or 18. Okay, that’s fairly understandable, but just off the top of my head the US has key players like Musah, Robinson, Balogun and Cardoso, who have never stepped a foot inside the US system at any point of their lives, not at youth level, nor adult. Three Englishmen and a Brazilian. They are complete, 100% products of other countries, and spent their entire lives living in those countries. Three of those are nailed on starters, and amongst the US’s very best players. Take them out of the squad and the USMNT looks very different.

I think stuff like this matters, because it’s papering over the cracks. Without young US players going to, predominantly, the Bundesliga in their teens, and the US scouring for eligible players completely developed by other countries, then they’d have virtually nothing to stick out on to the field. It’s normal of course for the best young players to leave and go to Europe, it happens with Brazil and Argentina - for example - the second phenomena is not one I am a fan of at all, and it grates to hear of Lalas talking about a golden generation - like it’s some triumph - when half of it is someone else’s.

Youth coaching in the US is utter dogshit, and I should know, I’ve been in and around the clubs, academies, and industry over here, since 2008. It’s a pay to play system, with antiquated methodologies, and a ton of corruption and nepotism. Most of the actual talent in this country, at youth level, comes from the Latino community - which is massive and football crazy - but they are largely disenfranchised from the official, sanctioned US soccer system which costs an absolute fortune for any parent to participate in. I’ve witnessed games where MLS academy A-teams, predominantly filled with rich white kids, have played in unsanctioned games against local Latino club sides and been absolutely demolished 5 or 6-0. Then a few weeks later seen the same MLS academy team making the semi-finals of national tournaments. It’s a complete joke, and a huge pool of talent is going completely ignored. With the exception of Dallas and NY Red Bulls, there are very few MLS academies that ever produce a player worth anything at all at a professional level. And those that do come through, have to get to Europe as young as possible in order to get proper coaching and make it to the top level.

It’s all very well people prattling on about who the coach should be, but if the US weren’t essentially pinching players from other countries, it wouldn’t matter who the coach was - because the team would be hopeless. This to me is a bigger issue, as the entire system here is completely broken.
Great post. Everything I think of US Soccer but far more thorough.
 
@simonhch they've been doing this for a long time not just recently, and I agree with your post. Look at some of the core side from 1994 - Clavijo, Dooley, Stewart, Wegerle - all with dual nationality and having never been involved with the US setup until USSF/Bora identified them, or in Clavijo's example he became a naturalized citizen at age 31 and was called into the NT at age 34 (a couple months shy of 35). The USSF has failed as a federation in development and so did MLS for like 15+ years. The IMG Academy and MLS Pro nonsense didn't do much at all and both the USSF and MLS massively missed on a golden opportunity to establish proper league structure from the get, granted MLS was more concerned with sustaining itself understandably but that's what happens when establishing a franchise based league versus allowing an organic development (and MLS is the stupidest fecking name but it was old rich white dudes that been involved in other US sports leagues, sigh).

Speaking of, since the US automatically qualify for 2026 (unless that has changed), I would like to see USSF go the 1992-94 route with multiple A team matches (and B team aka unofficial) to let the (hopefully new) manager trot out a ton of players over the next 18-24 months. Get them prepared.
 
@simonhch they've been doing this for a long time not just recently, and I agree with your post. Look at some of the core side from 1994 - Clavijo, Dooley, Stewart, Wegerle - all with dual nationality and having never been involved with the US setup until USSF/Bora identified them, or in Clavijo's example he became a naturalized citizen at age 31 and was called into the NT at age 34 (a couple months shy of 35). The USSF has failed as a federation in development and so did MLS for like 15+ years. The IMG Academy and MLS Pro nonsense didn't do much at all and both the USSF and MLS massively missed on a golden opportunity to establish proper league structure from the get, granted MLS was more concerned with sustaining itself understandably but that's what happens when establishing a franchise based league versus allowing an organic development (and MLS is the stupidest fecking name but it was old rich white dudes that been involved in other US sports leagues, sigh).

Speaking of, since the US automatically qualify for 2026 (unless that has changed), I would like to see USSF go the 1992-94 route with multiple A team matches (and B team aka unofficial) to let the (hopefully new) manager trot out a ton of players over the next 18-24 months. Get them prepared.

Agreed 1000%....stop scheduling the New Zealand's of the world and schedule the teams like Colombia, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Argentina, Turkeyi, Japan, Nigeria. You get a bit of style difference playing teams from around the world

Put the coach and players in more competitive matches so see how they perform with a nice size pool of players
 
hell yeah. Not sure how much it means or how much social power they have, but I love that the biggest fan organization in the country is calling for gregg to get fired. Would be hilarious if they do it on July 4th. #independencefromgregg
 
Damn, forgot all about this. I remember we only lost 1-0, but I can't remember anything about how we played, etc.

fecking Kevin Keegan...

 
i remember watching that match with my teammates at a bar and we couldn't believe that a fight didn't break out when that happened
 
even a blind man can a coaching change has to happen and these players are just too comfortable with Gregg running the team
They need to ante up and go after a big name. They need a Pep or a Klopp. Actually Klopp going to the US for a few years would wake up the base, the media, and the team just in time for the World Cup. I’m not saying this because he was our coach but he would be a good fit. I mean he is available like.
 
They need to ante up and go after a big name. They need a Pep or a Klopp. Actually Klopp going to the US for a few years would wake up the base, the media, and the team just in time for the World Cup. I’m not saying this because he was our coach but he would be a good fit. I mean he is available like.
I also wonder if they could sell him on it $$ wise as he would hit a marketing goldmine. US Soccer can not offer an even decent pay package, but he could be all over the TV come the WC in ads if he wanted.
 
I also wonder if they could sell him on it $$ wise as he would hit a marketing goldmine. US Soccer can not offer an even decent pay package, but he could be all over the TV come the WC in ads if he wanted.
This is their chance. Him or someone like him with pedigree. They really can’t afford to mess this up and do the whole rinse and repeat routine with this squad. They can’t be doing a Bruce Arena shitshow. Canada and Panama are through and they’re not in the biggest competition before the big show on home soil. I would think that’s not acceptable to whatever runs the US program.
 
They need to ante up and go after a big name. They need a Pep or a Klopp. Actually Klopp going to the US for a few years would wake up the base, the media, and the team just in time for the World Cup. I’m not saying this because he was our coach but he would be a good fit. I mean he is available like.
they made a massive mistake allowing Marsch to go to Canada

that said....I think a guy like Klopp, while probably out of reach, would be great simply b/c he's a legit coach with legit experience. it would wake up eyes from everyone top to bottom and that is what this federation needs right now. we have the talent both natural and dual nationals that we could land if we had a coach that players would respect
 
MLS massively missed on a golden opportunity to establish proper league structure from the get
A multitier structure with promotion/relegation was never, ever going to happen in the US by the late 20th century. Our class of owners treat their teams as personal belongings instead of local institutions, which is why you see things like owners on the field accepting championship trophies and moving cities with no regard to fans. Their personal investment losing value through relegation is just a nonstarter to these people.

To your other point, I agree, we've always leaned on naturalizing players but that's just a reality of where US youth development continues to be. I'm old enough to remember when there was controversy over the naturalization of David Regis for the 98 World Cup. Hey, at least now we're recruiting players from Juventus and Valencia instead of Karlshruhe.
 
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A multitier structure with promotion/relegation was never, ever going to happen in the US by the late 20th century. Our class of owners treat their teams as personal belongings instead of local institutions, which is why you see things like owners on the field accepting championship trophies and moving cities with no regard to fans. Their personal investment losing value through relegation is just a nonstarter to these people.

To your other point, I agree, we've always leaned on naturalizing players but that's just a reality of where US youth development continues to be. I'm old enough to remember when there was controversy over the naturalization of David Regis for the 98 World Cup. Hey, at least now we're recruiting players from Juventus and Valencia instead of Karlshruhe.
This post deserves a like.
 
They need to ante up and go after a big name. They need a Pep or a Klopp
I think a guy like Klopp, while probably out of reach, would be great simply b/c he's a legit coach with legit experience.
Throw $$$ at Tuchel. Would give him 2 years to prep for 2026.
The problem is I don't think the USSF could even dream of affording someone like this. I believe the most they've ever paid a head coach was $3.4 million/yr for Klinsmann half a decade ago. Klopp meanwhile made $26 million in base annual salary and $28 million in advertising revenue at pool (according to this website so take it for what it's worth). Tuchel was apparently earning around $13 million at Bayern. That's an order of magnitude difference, I just can't see them matching those sorts of numbers for a truly top level manager.

Edit: for what it's worth, I don't think we need someone like Klopp. We're not a threat to actually win a world cup or anything. All the USMNT needs to do is play like a cohesive unit, not be complete crap against the best teams, and ideally be somewhat entertaining to watch. That would be enough to unite the fan base and push the national team forward. That shouldn't be out of the reach of a decently qualified manager, whether it's Jesse Marsch, a career international journeyman like Herve Renard, or even an actually promising MLS manager like Wilfried Nancy.
 
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US Soccer will probably fire the coach, and it’s right he should be fired; but US Soccer themselves are an even bigger problem than the coach. It’s run by the dumbest motherfeckers in football. The entire structure, from top to bottom, is rotten. They’ll fire the coach, not because they believe it’s the right way forwards, or have anything resembling a plan, but because it’ll take the heat off them. And they’ll do it while Greggy boy is the catch all, universal scapegoat for all that is wrong with US soccer.

He’s a shit coach but he’s only a small part of the problem. The best way I can put it, is that it’s like the Glazer’s restoring confidence by firing a manager. Whoever they get in, US soccer will be back here soon enough. And knowing what a clown show it is, I doubt they will get anyone with any real pedigree to take the job. They’ll need to go with a name that either needs a redemption arc, or an up and coming coach with everything to prove. Talking about getting Klopp or Guardiola is just pie in the sky. The only way Klopp comes is if he has essentially entered semi retirement.
 
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I also wonder if they could sell him on it $$ wise as he would hit a marketing goldmine. US Soccer can not offer an even decent pay package, but he could be all over the TV come the WC in ads if he wanted.

They'd have to find something outside salary because he was earning in excess of $20m per year at Liverpool, there is no way USSF will pay anywhere near that amount.
 
Edit: for what it's worth, I don't think we need someone like Klopp. We're not a threat to actually win a world cup or anything. All the USMNT needs to do is play like a cohesive unit, not be complete crap against the best teams, and ideally be somewhat entertaining to watch. That would be enough to unite the fan base and push the national team forward. That shouldn't be out of the reach of a decently qualified manager, whether it's Jesse Marsch, a career international journeyman like Herve Renard, or even an actually promising MLS manager like Wilfried Nancy.

I mentioned Renard back during the supposed study USSF did to find a manager. I reckon he'd do fairly well with this talent pool.
 
Any American caffers that follow the MLS who can tell me about Julian Carranza from Philidelphia Union?
 
US Soccer will probably fire the coach, and it’s right he should be fired; but US Soccer themselves are an even bigger problem than the coach. It’s run by the dumbest motherfeckers in football. The entire structure, from top to bottom, is rotten. They’ll fire the coach, not because they believe it’s the right way forwards, or have anything resembling a plan, but because it’ll take the heat off them. And they’ll do it while Greggy boy is the catch all, universal scapegoat for all that is wrong with US soccer.

He’s a shit coach but he’s only a small part of the problem. The best way I can put it, is that it’s like the Glazer’s restoring confidence by firing a manager. Whoever they get in, US soccer will be back here soon enough. And knowing what a clown show it is, I doubt they will get anyone with any real pedigree to take the job. They’ll need to go with a name that either needs a redemption arc, or an up and coming coach with everything to prove. Talking about getting Klopp or Guardiola is just pie in the sky. The only way Klopp comes is if he has essentially entered semi retirement.
YUP. All of this, especially the bolded part. And I'll add that the people who run USSF aren't just under qualified, they're incestuous. It's basically been the same small group of people dating back to the 80s, which is why you have ridiculous clown shows like a player's mom calling the federation and spilling 40 year old dirt on the manager whose wife used to be her college roommate. And why that manager then got reappointed, because they didn't even consider someone outside their small group.
 
Youth coaching in the US is utter dogshit, and I should know, I’ve been in and around the clubs, academies, and industry over here, since 2008. It’s a pay to play system, with antiquated methodologies, and a ton of corruption and nepotism. Most of the actual talent in this country, at youth level, comes from the Latino community - which is massive and football crazy - but they are largely disenfranchised from the official, sanctioned US soccer system which costs an absolute fortune for any parent to participate in. I’ve witnessed games where MLS academy A-teams, predominantly filled with rich white kids, have played in unsanctioned games against local Latino club sides and been absolutely demolished 5 or 6-0. Then a few weeks later seen the same MLS academy team making the semi-finals of national tournaments. It’s a complete joke, and a huge pool of talent is going completely ignored. With the exception of Dallas and NY Red Bulls, there are very few MLS academies that ever produce a player worth anything at all at a professional level. And those that do come through, have to get to Europe as young as possible in order to get proper coaching and make it to the top level.

It’s all very well people prattling on about who the coach should be, but if the US weren’t essentially pinching players from other countries, it wouldn’t matter who the coach was - because the team would be hopeless. This to me is a bigger issue, as the entire system here is completely broken.
A multitier structure with promotion/relegation was never, ever going to happen in the US by the late 20th century. Our class of owners treat their teams as personal belongings instead of local institutions, which is why you see things like owners on the field accepting championship trophies and moving cities with no regard to fans. Their personal investment losing value through relegation is just a nonstarter to these people.
US Soccer will probably fire the coach, and it’s right he should be fired; but US Soccer themselves are an even bigger problem than the coach. It’s run by the dumbest motherfeckers in football. The entire structure, from top to bottom, is rotten. They’ll fire the coach, not because they believe it’s the right way forwards, or have anything resembling a plan, but because it’ll take the heat off them. And they’ll do it while Greggy boy is the catch all, universal scapegoat for all that is wrong with US soccer.
These are all the primary issues with US Soccer. And as much as we all hate it, it will never change. It's how it is, and only a complete disruption of the entire economic system will break it. Unfortunately, when that happens, professional and international soccer will be a very low priority on the totem pole.
 
Ecuador sacked their manager right after the match yesterday when losing to argentina in penalties.....don't understand why the US hasn't already done this but they certainly should be following suit
 
Ecuador sacked their manager right after the match yesterday when losing to argentina in penalties.....don't understand why the US hasn't already done this but they certainly should be following suit
Because they're cowards and they're relatively PR savvy. I ultimately think that Gregg will be terminated. But the USSF that most "fans" will forget about this in a week or so, and then business as usual can resume if they want to keep him. There's about a week left for people in the media to have a platform to talk about this before it all kind of fades away and is forgotten until the next tournament.

It also could be that they're broke. That's what some people are saying is that the federation can't afford to fire him and hire someone else. IDK. I hope he's gone soon though
 
Because they're cowards and they're relatively PR savvy. I ultimately think that Gregg will be terminated. But the USSF that most "fans" will forget about this in a week or so, and then business as usual can resume if they want to keep him. There's about a week left for people in the media to have a platform to talk about this before it all kind of fades away and is forgotten until the next tournament.

It also could be that they're broke. That's what some people are saying is that the federation can't afford to fire him and hire someone else. IDK. I hope he's gone soon though

can't imagine that is true at all....one of my co-workers just went to germany iwth the girls U16 national team and she was like one of 5 coaches that went for one team so can't see money being the concern

cowards...yes...broke..nah don't buy it
 
just look at how organized and aggressive Canada plays....and we'd rather have had Berhalter than Jesse??? fecking mental
 
why is it taking so long?? ffs...Marsch got Canada to the semis which is enough to show berhalter was the wrong choice and should be sacked
Because they are not going to fire him and want to wait, hoping the fanbase goes into a malaise.
 
Because they are not going to fire him and want to wait, hoping the fanbase goes into a malaise.
Exactly. They will just wait to have shit blow over. Same they did with that sham interview process before they rehired him. Zero faith in this shit federation
 
just look at how organized and aggressive Canada plays....and we'd rather have had Berhalter than Jesse??? fecking mental
What a big fecking mistake that was. And one that literally anyone could've seen coming. Marsh would've been great for usa