Today's Rooney wouldn't be a starter for any other top team.
Unpopular Opinions Thread
- Thread starter KiD MoYeS
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
- Status
Don't think I saw thus before but I think we'll have the best defensive record in the league.
Player wise you could say we need someone to partner Smalling who is better than what we have, but we have a very organised defensive set up when all are fit.
Player wise you could say we need someone to partner Smalling who is better than what we have, but we have a very organised defensive set up when all are fit.
Mate, where have you been? I've been saying this exact stuff for ages.
This part is interesting, because while I can agree with what you and @JonDahl are saying. The players around him creates absolutely no passing opportunities, you can't criticize a carpenter work if he doesn't have any wood, our lumberjacks need to pull their fingers and cut some wood.
By the way our CMs have the same problem, Young, Mata, Rooney and Depay aren't available enough.
I agree that the movement needs improving via better personnel, but it's only ever used as an excuse for Mata, when he's as limited under pressure as anyone.
Arsenal aren't as good as everyone's likes to make out.
So have I! I was in muppet land just like everybody else when he signed but I said he wasn't the answer to our problems then, as proven by Moyes sticking him right midfield and us still struggling. Our issue for a very long time has been threat from midfield; when was the last time we had a central midfielder and genuinley thought "he can score today"? Gibson? When there was talk of Lampard coming here he would have been a fantastic stop gap. It's why so many people want Herrera to play and hopefully Bastian can stay fit, because they are both our most threatening players from the middle.
It's not used only for Mata, play Riquelme, David Silva or Ozil in static teams and the same thing will happen. And by the way he still created more chances than Oscar who is a very good player, playing for a very good team.
Silva and Riquelme wouldn't struggle in the same way. Silva's and Riquelme's shielding of the ball is miles better. They can go round people much better, they can hold the ball for longer, the ball generally sticks to them much more.
Get tight to them and they can find a way round you. Whereas, get tight to Mata and he passes it back to Carrick.
They encourage their teammates to make runs, because they keep hold of the ball and create angles. Runs are easier to make when your number 10 is able to hold the ball and move with it into dangerous areas and create two-on-one situations, or drag defenders about.
They'd do better, though of course we'd still be looking to upgrade the striker positions.
Even Shaw would benefit to some extent with Silva playing centrally in this team.
I disagree they would struggle, they are obviously better but in that team they would struggle. And by the way I didn't expressed it, but it is 100% LVG's fault, I would lambaste our attacking players if I was him, Mata included.
I'm going to use a fact that I learned with Rugby, every runs are crucial, dummy runs are crucial, our players are selfish they only move when they think they will receive the ball.
The general caf opinion seems to be that he is our most important player. Which he isn't.
OK for a start Im 35 years a club supporter, so dont patronise me please about not seeing the bad times. We are nowhere near the title, and unless we recruit a top GK, CB and pacy attacker we arent going to be. After the money spent, we shouldnt be this far away, its not anywhere near the level needed to win the PL. Mourinho won the title first season in his first time and second year in his second time at Chelsea, he has bought well over both periods, we havent and we lack leadership at the back and pace/creativity up front and its for everyone to see.Closer to a title? Not quite there yet, but not too far either.
It takes time and money to build a team. I find it funny you mention Chelsea. Of all teams, they who have spent more money on transfers than any other team in the league. It's funny also because United are running a very similar path to Chelsea but a year behind them.
Jose Mourinho took over Chelsea for a 2nd stint in 2013, since that date Jose has:
Spent: £224.2m on transfers on 22 players
Sold: £196.85m received on 49 players
Net Spend: £27.35
Similarly Louis Van Gaal
Spent: £221.6 on transfer for 13 players
Sold: £96.55 on transfers for 27 players
Net Spend: £125.05
Chelsea won their first league title in 5 years in case you missed it, this after they spend over £200m. United's transfer business pre Van Gaal was absolutely shambolic, Fergie and Gill left the club in an awful mess with really poor players on bumper wages (Cleverly, Nani, Anderson, Fletcher etc etc). Any incoming manager had the unenviable / thankless task of sorting that mess out. People wonder why we've had to accept pennies on the likes of the players I've named? It's because no club wants to fork out £100k approx for their wages so we have to accept lower transfer fee's and hope the player will take a reduction in wage, Anderson one of the worst offenders refused to transfer last summer.
Last summers business was done under a tight time scale, he arrived late and had to make quick fire decisions on transfers like Herrera and Shaw without truly assessing them, then had to delve into the market and buy players quickly with what little time was left. The only player that has really flopped is Di Maria. Falcao didn't work out but logically speaking he most definitely was a risk worth taking considering it was a loan deal.
Your problem in a nutshell is that you have never seen United going through a rebuilding phase and can't relate to it, many United fans haven't as we had the same manager for the guts of 3 decades. Not just any manager but the greatest manager in the history of the game. The man (LVG) has had 1 season in charge and your spouting out nonsense of league titles? Shall I compare LVG's one season to Jose's first season Back at Chelsea in 2013-14?
Chelsea: 3rd - 2013/14
P38 W25 D7 L6 GF71 GA27 GD+44 82Pts
United: 4th - 2014/15
P38 W20 D10 L8 GF62 GA37 GD+25 70Pts
Considering it was Jose's 2nd stint in the league and he had a full transfer window from the get go unlike LVG had last summer, I'd suggest LVG done a damn good job taking into account the scale of the rebuilding that is going on.
You mention about the Glazers spending £200m every summer, that won't happen. It's happening now because its the start of the rebuilding, once the squad foundation is laid down you shall see a reduction in the quantity spent and receiving and players coming and going will reduce. We basically will be at a stage where tweaking the squad is all that is necessary.
Secondly, Synonymous? LVG has his own ideas of football and we should respect them, even if its not fully to our liking. Will he be successful at the club before he retires? Most definitely. If we don't win something this year we shall next year. LVG is a stubborn old boot who at 64 is not likely to change now when he is 2 years from retirement. So you may as well give up on that one. His team selections can be puzzling sometimes but we are still in the mix and the teams around us still fear and respect us as they know on our day we can beat them.
Given time he shall lay the foundations for this team (nearly there now) and the beautiful attacking football he created with Ajax, Barca and Bayern will be on display soon enough
Neither would Mata.
I blame LVG for not properly preparing against De Gea's departure, after all he's had enough advanced warning. Valdes wasn't a solution. AdM drifted away under LVG's watch and the loss was spectacular.
There are many ex-players who think he's dross including Mehmet Scholl and Olie Kahn.
I never wrote Vidal was the solution, read my comment again. We didn't need a senior we required a commanding player to take hold of the spine and bring coordination to our play. Keane wasn't a senior when he took on that role. I never mentioned any players he should have bought, that's a fantasy on your part. I wrote that his transfer policy was chaotic and a shambles, which it is.
Winning by seven points a 4th spot is hardly a great performance especially when the season included such marvellous results like Leicester, Southampton and Stoke.
He's a poor manager, with his constant excuses and ridiculous philosophies. We tried a similar managerial style with Sexton with similar boring football, he didn't last long!
Nor Young. Or Memphis.
My unpopular opinion would be that Fergie left the club in great condition not only as champions but with a great mix of youth and experience and well covered throughout the squad
The only thing that needed sorting was the midfield.
The only thing that needed sorting was the midfield.
Neither would Romero, Jones, Blind, Smalling.. What's your point/
My point was that so many like to point out how Rooney isn't up to par, but won't admit that Mata also isn't.
Amazing, how can you judge so definitively so soon? One feckin match into the season and you a fan of 35 years expect instant gratification?
We've spent very well actually and bought some top quality players. Where exactly have we wasted money Milo?
Herrera - One of our better (Best?) attacking players last season, looks like a player who loves the club and hopefully spends a long time here
Shaw - Wise investment and one of the countries best left backs, again he can have a long career here
Rojo - Looks promising when he has been given a run out. Can't recall him having a bad match. Needs to stay injury free and get a good run going in the team
Blind - The Dutch O Shea
offers great versatility and regardless of what others say on here I thought he had a good 1st season, still young and can improveDi Maria - Arguably the one failure from the LVG era. Still he chipped in with 3 goals and 10 assists last season. Didn't work out. Happens sometimes
Falcao - Worth the risk, was it not? Loan deal so why wouldn't we?
Valdes - Just the one match really, so hard to say. Whatever happened recently seems to be a case of him disrespecting the club.
Depay - One of Europes hottest prospects. No complaints here!
Darmian - The kid looks a fantastic bit of business. Looks like we got RB sorted.
Schneiderlin - Another great signing, one of the best DM's last season and he'll grow into his role at the club
Schweinsteiger - No complaints from me when we sign a CL winner and WC winner
Romero - Done a tidy job yesterday, did he not?
Di Maria aside, all players are signed for reasonable enough fees and have addressed areas that needed addressing. How exactly have we not spent well?
I agree we could do with a CB and CF, but Romero and Lindegaard would suffice for now until we can get a world class keeper.
The foundation of the team is there
Romero
Darmian Smalling (?) Shaw
Carrick/Schweinsteiger Schneiderlin
Mata Depay Young
Rooney
With cover Lindegaard ,Valencia Jones Rojo Blind ,Herrera Fellaini Januzaj/ Perriera, Chiccarito, Wilson
Plenty of versatility to play different formations and cover for each starting place.
Chelsea the current league champions have a stronger IX but we have a stronger squad, their cover:
Begovic, Ake (who?), Aina (Who?), Zouma, Ramires, Mikel, Traore, Loftus Cheek, Falcao (United reject), Remy.
Our squad really is not that bad or anything close to what you suggest it to be.
Final thing I'll say is, Liverpool nearly won the PL the season before last with a defence & keeper of: Mignelot, Johnson, Kolo, Cisokho & Agger. Our current defensive set up is far better than that!
Seriously they have a player called Ake and an another called Aina?Amazing, how can you judge so definitively so soon? One feckin match into the season and you a fan of 35 years expect instant gratification?
We've spent very well actually and bought some top quality players. Where exactly have we wasted money Milo?
Herrera - One of our better (Best?) attacking players last season, looks like a player who loves the club and hopefully spends a long time here
Shaw - Wise investment and one of the countries best left backs, again he can have a long career here
Rojo - Looks promising when he has been given a run out. Can't recall him having a bad match. Needs to stay injury free and get a good run going in the team
Blind - The Dutch O Shea
Di Maria - Arguably the one failure from the LVG era. Still he chipped in with 3 goals and 10 assists last season. Didn't work out. Happens sometimes
Falcao - Worth the risk, was it not? Loan deal so why wouldn't we?
Valdes - Just the one match really, so hard to say. Whatever happened recently seems to be a case of him disrespecting the club.
Depay - One of Europes hottest prospects. No complaints here!
Darmian - The kid looks a fantastic bit of business. Looks like we got RB sorted.
Schneiderlin - Another great signing, one of the best DM's last season and he'll grow into his role at the club
Schweinsteiger - No complaints from me when we sign a CL winner and WC winner
Romero - Done a tidy job yesterday, did he not?
Di Maria aside, all players are signed for reasonable enough fees and have addressed areas that needed addressing. How exactly have we not spent well?
I agree we could do with a CB and CF, but Romero and Lindegaard would suffice for now until we can get a world class keeper.
The foundation of the team is there
Romero
Darmian Smalling (?) Shaw
Carrick/Schweinsteiger Schneiderlin
Mata Depay Young
Rooney
With cover Lindegaard ,Valencia Jones Rojo Blind ,Herrera Fellaini Januzaj/ Perriera, Chiccarito, Wilson
Plenty of versatility to play different formations and cover for each starting place.
Chelsea the current league champions have a stronger IX but we have a stronger squad, their cover:
Begovic, Ake (who?), Aina (Who?), Zouma, Ramires, Mikel, Traore, Loftus Cheek, Falcao (United reject), Remy.
Our squad really is not that bad or anything close to what you suggest it to be.
Final thing I'll say is, Liverpool nearly won the PL the season before last with a defence & keeper of: Mignelot, Johnson, Kolo, Cisokho & Agger. Our current defensive set up is far better than that!
Looking at Chelsea reserve players, it really looks shit. Zouma, Begovic, Remy and Ramires are decent but the others are poor. United have a far stronger bench. Anyway, the cnuts never seem to get an injury so likely they'll survive only with the first XI playing almost every game.
Exactly, their hand is forced this season with the homegrown player rule as well. Zouma wouldn't even be getting a game otherwise, Jose would go out and spunk another £25m on a player instead.
If you look across the top 6 clubs squads they all have weaknesses, we better them in some areas and they better us in others. As you say Chelsea are very lucky with injuries, add in Jose and the spine of their team I'd give them the edge over the rest.
2nd - 6th in the table could any which way! I don't think there'll be much in it, minimal point difference.
We need to know whether de gea is leaving. If rumours are true we are offered £17m for him maybe less than what we paid for him. We are right in holding out for a higher fee and because of that he may not leave this year.we can't buy a class keeper and then not sell de gea meaning we will have to sell him for whatever they offer. Not to mention there aren't really many keepers that we can expect to be de gea s level. AdM left because he wanted to leave. He got many chances and was played as a striker maybe in 2 games. He played as a winger or Attacking midfielder a lot and after he was sent off our team clicked and he was benched from then on.
I don't think Kahn or scholl played under him did they? Players who played under him almost all say he is a great manager. Even our current players. Of course players like rivaldo ibra Ribery and stoichkov expected preferential treatment and now hate him because he gave everyone a fair chance. I don't see that as a bad thing.
You asked why did we not get Vidal instead of schweinsteiger. We needed a Carrick kind of player. We started losing once he was injured last year. Keane at the time had Paul ince and Bryan Robson to guide him. Plus Keane is a born leader. There aren't a lot of people like that. Schneiderlin can get the same from schweinsteiger and Carrick hopefully.
We lost to them. We also won against Liverpool Spurs city and arsenal. We did have great results and deserve to be there. We had our limitations with injuries. A lot of them
Sexton may have been sacked. It's a different time now. The club stuck by fergie. They sacked moyes. They hired LvG for specific objectives and so far he hasn't failed on them. Sure he may not play the crowd pleasing football that we are used to but he plays like this everywhere. Yet the club chose him. I don't think they really care about the style of football the club board as long as we get back to success
Cant argue with the midfield are better and Darmian looks a good signing. I dont rate Blind at all and dont believe Rojo was the right guy to strengthen the defence. Di Maria & Falcao are world class players that didn't work out here, you have to ask why? I really like Herrera and Shaw although we did overpay for Shaw. Most of the money wasted I have issues with was on Blind, Fellaini & Mata, 2 of which where Moyes signings appreciated but still form part of the squad now and both were added in last 2 years. We should have strengthened our spine before a lot of the signings we have made, and thats were we look to have gone wrong, I dont regard being 3 signings away from a genuine title challenge given the money we have already spent & the fact the season has already started as being close or good enough to be honest.Amazing, how can you judge so definitively so soon? One feckin match into the season and you a fan of 35 years expect instant gratification?
We've spent very well actually and bought some top quality players. Where exactly have we wasted money Milo?
Herrera - One of our better (Best?) attacking players last season, looks like a player who loves the club and hopefully spends a long time here
Shaw - Wise investment and one of the countries best left backs, again he can have a long career here
Rojo - Looks promising when he has been given a run out. Can't recall him having a bad match. Needs to stay injury free and get a good run going in the team
Blind - The Dutch O Shea
Di Maria - Arguably the one failure from the LVG era. Still he chipped in with 3 goals and 10 assists last season. Didn't work out. Happens sometimes
Falcao - Worth the risk, was it not? Loan deal so why wouldn't we?
Valdes - Just the one match really, so hard to say. Whatever happened recently seems to be a case of him disrespecting the club.
Depay - One of Europes hottest prospects. No complaints here!
Darmian - The kid looks a fantastic bit of business. Looks like we got RB sorted.
Schneiderlin - Another great signing, one of the best DM's last season and he'll grow into his role at the club
Schweinsteiger - No complaints from me when we sign a CL winner and WC winner
Romero - Done a tidy job yesterday, did he not?
Di Maria aside, all players are signed for reasonable enough fees and have addressed areas that needed addressing. How exactly have we not spent well?
I agree we could do with a CB and CF, but Romero and Lindegaard would suffice for now until we can get a world class keeper.
The foundation of the team is there
Romero
Darmian Smalling (?) Shaw
Carrick/Schweinsteiger Schneiderlin
Mata Depay Young
Rooney
With cover Lindegaard ,Valencia Jones Rojo Blind ,Herrera Fellaini Januzaj/ Perriera, Chiccarito, Wilson
Plenty of versatility to play different formations and cover for each starting place.
Chelsea the current league champions have a stronger IX but we have a stronger squad, their cover:
Begovic, Ake (who?), Aina (Who?), Zouma, Ramires, Mikel, Traore, Loftus Cheek, Falcao (United reject), Remy.
Our squad really is not that bad or anything close to what you suggest it to be.
Final thing I'll say is, Liverpool nearly won the PL the season before last with a defence & keeper of: Mignelot, Johnson, Kolo, Cisokho & Agger. Our current defensive set up is far better than that!
Van Gaal took over at Bayern in 2009, Kahn retired in 2008, Scholl in 2007.
Club Brugge spells trouble. Underestimation of opponents. The squad is clearly young and not experienced in UCL, which easily leads to a bit of carelessness. Hopefully the staff prepare them well mentally. Also time for Rooney, Carrick and Bastian to show the experience
i agree with this. Its one of the main reasons im happy we brought in Bastian fecking Schweinsteiger. He will be a big personality to look to midweek i think
Mata, Rooney, BFG, Valdez(if he counts) and Pedro(if he joins) are the only one with CL.
again?. don't get what you mean
Huh? Carrick, Blind, Smalling, Jones, Young, Valencia, Chicharito?
Agreed. Moyesy only had two things to get right - keep the existing coaching staff and sign the pre-scouted midfielders (Herrera and Strootman). Obviously, he failed to do both.
Assuming you mean those who have won the CL, if that be the case you are forgetting Carrick
Shhh. There is a thread questioning the age of the supporters who dare to question the shite that is being put out on the pitch. 4th would have been harder if people did not hound Raheem Sterling into submission towards the end of the season.
Yea I meant CL winners, and I forgot Carrick.
Sure many others have played in the CL but winning, imo, counts more.
Well Di Maria because his heart was always set on Paris, not much we can do there really unfortunately. Used us for a year and moved on. Falcao was just an experiment, one worth taking. Will he fair better at Chelsea, personally I don't think so. It'll be a repeat of what we saw at United. I'd banker he won't score more than 5 goals for them in the league.
Blind, Fellaini and Mata? Ok, well 2 of them aren't LVG signings. Fellaini tbf to him had a good season last year and he scored the goal that pushed us across the line to CL football. Honestly didn't think I'd ever be saying that!
If the squad stayed exactly as it is now, we'd still get Top 4. We've goals all over the pitch and if we settle Rooney up top every week he'll improve and score at least 20 goals for us.
Apart from almost the entire defense in Rio, Vidic and Evra that needed replacing.
Midfield as you say needed to be replaced.
And up front he left us with Rooney who he wanted rid of and an ageing RvP.
Yes, but we had young defenders to jump in, they just needed to get the chance, especially Smalling. Moyes had to get TOP 4, not to win the title, so with just the 2 midfielders who were prescouted (three actually were scouted - Strootman, Herrera and Alcantara) it should have been possible with ease, but what is more important even after that, Moyes would have had at least 100m pounds to spend.
He should have bought 2 midfielders and a left back (he actually new that we need at least one midfielder and a LB, he said it and he managed to bottle it) and he would have been fine.
Here is where I don't agree, or better say not in a way we have done it. It was OK to bring him, wort the risk, but if we have sold RVP, and not Welbeck. Now, forget how much Welbeck scores, or doesn't, but we were left with three slow strikers, who play similar way and can't play together, while we have lost all the speed in the attack. That was a big mistake and we could see it during the season. So, I agree that it was worth the risk, but it wasn't handled properly.
Rooney has pace, might not be the quickest forward around but he definitely has pace. We had Di Maria and Young either side of him too.
But I would agree that they Falcao, Rooney & RVP are all too similar and yes that was a mistake.
- Status