Unpopular Opinions Thread

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dustfingers said:
I just don't understand this part. Moyes was said to be a bad manager and the squad underachieved because of him and finishing 7th was basically his fault. If that was the case then, probably with a decent manager we could have finished fourth, right? Then how come LvG's task was much bigger?
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Presumably because of the - conveniently non-quantifiable - factor called "Moyes destroyed them mentally". In the most extreme (and not entirely uncommon) version of this fairytale Moyes "inherited a squad of champions", then proceeded not only to do a historically poor job but also to break these players down psychologically to the point where they were practically useless - to LVG, who then had to rebuild their shattered psyches in addition to everything else.

The more reasonable explanation is the one presented by @Speak above.
 
Speak said:
He clearly didn't do an okay job, but I believe he got a rawer deal than van Gaal in taking over Sir Alex's direct squad - for a number of reasons.
Obviously you can argue he should have been ruthless and made huge changes, but the same people who argue this were probably the same people who were annoyed that he dared to bring in his own staff. I think having the opportunity to reshape the whole squad has been a benefit for van Gaal, not a hindrance.

But anyway, that's the past. They took on such different jobs that it's almost pointless to compare stats.
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Agree with all of that.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Presumably because of the - conveniently non-quantifiable - factor called "Moyes destroyed them mentally". In the most extreme (and not entirely uncommon) version of this fairytale Moyes "inherited a squad of champions", then proceeded not only to do a historically poor job but also to break these players down psychologically to the point where they were practically useless - to LVG, who then had to rebuild their shattered psyches in addition to everything else.

The more reasonable explanation is the one presented by @Speak above.
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Your point is fair. Speak's opinion is also fair enough. But when SAF resigned, the club probably did take a bit of risk in hiring Moyes. But if Speak's point is valid then probably club would (should) have understood the situation Moyes is under and the fair amount of blame would have gone to the players than the manager itself, right? (The naive thought would be club overestimated the squad and we simply didn't have beyond the doors personality able to access the squad but Woodward is a businessman and so are Glazers, Man United is an asset. They simply won't be overly stupid in that regard in assessing their asset.) If that was the case, then what was the point of bringing in a new manager and an entirely another stage of evolution rather than giving Moyes the trust for another season when he had assessed the squad well for almost a season? While our club doesn't have director of football and others, we still have fair bit of ex-players and managers in director's role, who could have quite easily pointed out the flaw was in the squad and then we might have stuck with him for may be a longer time. I don't disagree with the decision to get rid of manager but if the blame is to principally in the squad, then probably Moyes was harshly judged. LvG made a wholesale changes and played a style where we ride our luck fair few times when winning games 2-1 away (Arsenal, Soton) and still managed to finish only 4th which is not a great position for a club of our stature and finances. This puts LvG's performance in a bad light though.

It's almost universally accepted that Moyes didn't have the ability to get the best out of this squad and underachieved, which if he did puts a lot less blame on the players. I don't think psychological factor is huge. Liverpool managed to make the jump from 7th to almost winning under the same manager and almost same set of players. We can't simply say our players were mentally knackered just because of one bad season. It invalidates the point that player are fairly confident of their ability and back themselves of their ability and even perform better when under pressure.

Probably the fair standing is somewhere in middle, the squad was piss poor and key players were in decline and Moyes didn't have correct mentality and authority to take club ahead in right direction in long term. Disregarding all the factors said (big players want to play for LvG not Moyes, Moyes didn't have the balls to clear the squad), we have probably been harsh on Moyes then while praising LvG for doing something which is fairly expected. After all money brings success over time and we are simply too rich not to be challenging for titles in few years time. ( I read the last point in Rawk of all places, so its probably universally accepted).
 
dustfingers said:
Looking at his youtube videos, I share the same sentiment. But on the other thought, at 19 Monaco were willing to make him their first choice number nine over the course of a season including Europa league. They are probably not that stupid to rely on a stutterer in front of goal (if he is) for a whole season as their main source of goal. I am kind of divided between the two opinions right now. No sane manager makes a 19 year old a first choice without being pretty sure about his potential.
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Youtube videos are meant to make players look good but the ones i have seen of martial I haven't seen anything particularily special from him, being number 9 at Monaco doesn't carry the same expectation as being number 9 at United, he doesn't have a very good scoring record either, he is under immense pressure to deliver the goals at United. I just hope he has a strong character and confident personality, every bad or average performance and he will be slated in the media. It could make or break him.

You only have to look at another Young talent that came here in memphis, he was amazing in Dutch league but he's performed very average for us, he looks a shadow of the player he was at PSV. It takes time to adjust to the premier league so I'm lowering my expectations on him for now.
 
"Moyes took the champions and ruined them, LVG had a mere shell." Doesn't mention that the only players who played under Moyes still in the X11 are DDG, Rooney, Carrick and Smalling all of whom were very good under Moyes. Everyone else didn't suffer dinosaur mans tactics.
 
Liverpool should never have let go of Benitez.

He was the perfect 'poor man's Fergie' to their Poor man's United club.
 
Robbie Boy said:
People really still think Moyes done on ok job? I thought we were way past this shit.
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I can't comprehend fully grown adults not understanding that Moyes took champions down to 7th, and saw us smashed at home by Pool and City (3-0) in game we were lucky to get away with 3 goal margins. And lost against most other decent teams. Not to mention had us playing all out defence, against Arsenal and Bayern at home as if we were a plucky underdog playing a much bigger team in the cup.
And Moyes changed his own mind that he was dealing with "champions" to quickly making noises about needing to make lots and lots of signings to make us even half decent.

Van Gaal came in to clear up Moyes' lowest ebb mess, and we comfortably got back top 4.

Yes, we've started a bit slow this season, but Swansea aside we have a new solidity in defence and midfield. Get the attack firing and we can make the next progression from 4th
 
I've only seen 1 game this season (Swansea) and I think the boring-ness of our play has been exaggerated. We're a little bit of cohesion and a better #9 away from being a side good with results and style.
 
berbatrick said:
I've only seen 1 game this season (Swansea) and I think the boring-ness of our play has been exaggerated. We're a little bit of cohesion and a better #9 away from being a side good with results and style.
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That was our best league performance this season. Watch the other 3.
 
Blue always red said:
"Moyes took the champions and ruined them, LVG had a mere shell." Doesn't mention that the only players who played under Moyes still in the X11 are DDG, Rooney, Carrick and Smalling all of whom were very good under Moyes. Everyone else didn't suffer dinosaur mans tactics.
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Carrick and Smalling were not very good under Moyes. In fact, that season had fans generally viewing Smalling as their least favorite defender due to Moyes' insistence on playing him as a RB where he was quite terrible. As for Carrick, many believed he was 'past it' and was quite bad for the most part. It is when LVG came in that those two recovered their form and started playing to their true abilities once more. As for Smalling, it's hard to argue that LVG hasn't done wonders for his progression. Carrick just returned to his pre-Moyes form.
 
I don't want Rooney to break Bobby Charlton's United goalscoring record

In years to come I'd rather see Bobby's name - a real United legend and all round ambassador for football - in the record books
 
santeria13 said:
Carrick and Smalling were not very good under Moyes. In fact, that season had fans generally viewing Smalling as their least favorite defender due to Moyes' insistence on playing him as a RB where he was quite terrible. As for Carrick, many believed he was 'past it' and was quite bad for the most part. It is when LVG came in that those two recovered their form and started playing to their true abilities once more. As for Smalling, it's hard to argue that LVG hasn't done wonders for his progression. Carrick just returned to his pre-Moyes form.
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I personally hailed Smalling as our best defender after that season, Carrick i agree with bar the Bayern games.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I don't want Rooney to break Bobby Charlton's United goalscoring record

In years to come I'd rather see Bobby's name - a real United legend and all round ambassador for football - in the record books
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But the problem there is Rooney's obviously not leaving any time soon, so for him not to break Sir Bobbys record he would have to have a disastrous end to his career.

So in that scenario you don't really hope Rooney plays so badly that he only scores 15 goals or less over the next few seasons do you?
 
stevoc said:
But the problem there is Rooney's obviously not leaving any time soon, so for him not to break Sir Bobbys record he would have to have a disastrous end to his career.

So in that scenario you don't really hope Rooney plays so badly that he only scores 15 goals or less over the next few seasons do you?
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I guess its an unpopular opinion. Ideal scenario is that Martial hits the ground running, replaces the hapless Rooney and goes on to tear it up this season with Rooney getting sold for a good price to PSG
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I guess its an unpopular opinion. Ideal scenario is that Martial hits the ground running, replaces the hapless Rooney and goes on to tear it up this season with Rooney getting sold for a good price to PSG
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I wouldn't hold my breath for any of that happening.

Rooney will almost certainly break the record this season or early next.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I guess its an unpopular opinion. Ideal scenario is that Martial hits the ground running, replaces the hapless Rooney and goes on to tear it up this season with Rooney getting sold for a good price to PSG
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As far as your original hope, quite unpopular. Bordering on pointlessly ludicrous. But that is the nature of the unpopular opinion thread, isn't it? As far as Martial hitting the ground running, that is more hope than possibility. It could go either way, not even worth putting your chips down on.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
I personally hailed Smalling as our best defender after that season, Carrick i agree with bar the Bayern games.
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Me too and you can find posts of mine back from that era when I said I personally think he's our best CB when he plays in that position. But due to his largely disappointing performances as a right back most people shot me down for my opinion and called me mad and that 'I did not understand football' for thinking he was better than Evans :lol:. Your insight may have been spot on but I don't think he had many good performances that season, and when he did it was as a CB. Hence why he was so unpopular. You were one of the few who could see past that. I still can't believe the amount of abuse I got in one post where I labelled him as our best defender in terms of actually defending.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Oh dear, what's all this that Martial has achieved that Zaha never will?
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Mrs Smoker said:
If alien overlords enslave us all tomorrow, and cancel all the sports competitions -- save for Biathlon world cup, of course -- Zaha would be the more accomplished player of the two.
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Martial has already played in the QF's of the Champions League, something Zaha never has or ever will do. Infact, Zaha won't ever play the in CL period.
 
santeria13 said:
Me too and you can find posts of mine back from that era when I said I personally think he's our best CB when he plays in that position. But due to his largely disappointing performances as a right back most people shot me down for my opinion and called me mad and that 'I did not understand football' for thinking he was better than Evans :lol:. Your insight may have been spot on but I don't think he had many good performances that season, and when he did it was as a CB. Hence why he was so unpopular. You were one of the few who could see past that. I still can't believe the amount of abuse I got in one post where I labelled him as our best defender in terms of actually defending.
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Smalling/Evans won the poll on the Caf as the preferred CB partnership the summer LVG took over.
 
Going into the season with only one experienced striker is a mistake, with the two deputies having less than 15 professional goals between them means that this is a risk too far....

Considering that we dont score enough goals as it is, and Rooney has look out of sorts as a striker further compounds the issue.

This is a big issue this season which a lot of people will realize as it occurs as the season progresses, and we would be happy if a rival was in a similar predicament.
 
K2K said:
Going into the season with only one experienced striker is a mistake, with the two deputies having less than 15 professional goals between them means that this is a risk too far....

Considering that we dont score enough goals as it is, and Rooney has look out of sorts as a striker further compounds the issue.

This is a big issue this season which a lot of people will realize as it occurs as the season progresses, and we would be happy if a rival was in a similar predicament.
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That's not an unpopular opinion.
 
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