Could be that it had to do with maybe injury?
Shaw is an outstanding defender given his age. Like, insanely good at defending. That's what counts most.
Fergie signed Evra "to attack", so I don't think that's necessarily 100% true for a fullback either. For a team like United it's more often an attacking position with defensive responsibility.
Fergie signed Evra "to attack", so I don't think that's necessarily 100% true for a fullback either. For a team like United it's more often an attacking position with defensive responsibility.
We have Rafael on the other side to be the attacking full back, while Shaw can be the more defensive one. We don't want a Barca situation where both full backs are poor at defending. Their brilliant team from 09-11 had Abidal doing the defending for the most part and Alves doing the attacking. Same with Brown and Evra in 08.Fergie signed Evra "to attack", so I don't think that's necessarily 100% true for a fullback either. For a team like United it's more often an attacking position with defensive responsibility.
Defenders are required to defend, first and foremost. I don't think that will ever change. Evra's defending was good at United during the good times. We've all seen it at its worst and we should be thankful we no longer need to put up with his constant shitty defending of the latter years.
Shaw's dribbling and link up play needs work, but he is a good crosser, powerful and pacey. Like I said, though, his defending is where it's at. Seldom are young defenders that developed in that respect, hence he's so highly rated.
I'd like to have Reus too ahead of Ronaldo. But almost whole Europe will be after him if he decides to leave. We'll have a chance, but of course could lose out. If we lose out, then I'd like Ronaldo. The others like Muniain (or Depay who a lot here rate higher than Muniain) aren't the finished product but would also be OK! But we DO need another skillful winger with pace.Same, I dont think he adds much apart from goals, in build up play I'd rather have Reus, he is like 5 years younger, costs less and I think our team is more balanced then in attack. Reus, di Maria, Falcao, Reus are complement to eachother.
I've not seen anything from Luke Shaw in his time at Southampton to convince me he'll be a good signing, and don't understand how it's even possible to value a left back at £30m when they're not even 20 years old.
I've also not been impressed by the lack of fitness reports, stupid posey photos, and being mouthy on twitter.
Only Van Gaal's recent positive comments on him are keeping me from being seriously sceptical.
well. dunno if thats unpopular or controversal at all? Like almost all other fans, people tend to overrate their own player. Its not only Danny. There are a couple of other examples where the caf has fairly exclusive views, that nobody outside Manchester would ever share.
I think overpaying for top British talent is a very reasonable thing for us to do. Guess that's an unpopular opinion?
I agree with this also but there's a limit, surely?
I mean, paying 20m for Shaw while we payed 13m for Blind and 16m for Rojo would've still been over-paying for him really.
But f**king hell, 30m? It's more than we payed for RvP a few windows back!
Moyes is a competent manager (as proven by his time at Everton). The problem was that the squad at United never gave him a chance. As an example, our defence last season was worse that Everton's under Moyes, despite being composed of superior players. That can only be because the individuals never believed in him.
He's a mid table manager, out of his depth at a top club. Every manager IMO has their way of playing and their level, moyes just couldn't cut it at the top when he was required to play fast and attacking football. He's always been defensive and it's much easier to make a more structured defensive unit when the whole team is more defensive, rather then playing attacking football. He just didn't know what to do, and generally being just competent isn't enough to be the manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world.Moyes is a competent manager (as proven by his time at Everton). The problem was that the squad at United never gave him a chance. As an example, our defence last season was worse than Everton's under Moyes, despite being composed of superior players. That can only be because the individuals never believed in him.
True, but a bit depressing really.All of which assumes that the players were wrong to be underwhelmed by his appointment in the first place, when in reality it was a far from inspiring choice.
yeah, he is one of them and to be incredibly unpopular:Jonny Evans.
Has there ever been a non-United fan who rates him at all?
That said, I don't really rate him either. He should have gone on to be a lot better than he is.
A midtable manager can get a title winning squad into a top 4 position.He's a mid table manager, out of his depth at a top club. Every manager IMO has their way of playing and their level, moyes just couldn't cut it at the top when he was required to play fast and attacking football. He's always been defensive and it's much easier to make a more structured defensive unit when the whole team is more defensive, rather then playing attacking football. He just didn't know what to do, and generally being just competent isn't enough to be the manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world.
It's more like replacing your favourite designer suit with a pyjama top just because it was from the same store.True, but a bit depressing really.
It's like wanting to buy a designer top rather than an equally good one from M&S, purely so that you can feel happy about their being a fancy label under the collar. If the players had worked with the manager rather than prejudging him for not being fancy and foreign, we might have got top 4.
The reason we weren't in the champions league was simply because we just didn't score enough, or make chances enough to win games. The defence wasn't great but it wasn't awful to the extent that it cost us always. It was us not making any chances and never scoring goals which meant even conceding 1 goal usually meant dropping points. Moyes didn't know what to do to make the offence work and in trying to get it, he made the defence unorganized as well.A midtable manager can get a title winning squad into a top 4 position.
Our biggest problem last season was having a disorganised defence. If only that much had been sorted out according to Moyse's strategy, we'd be in the CL right now.
Tbf yes. He had great games against Spain ages ago and Portugal so their fans rated him at least after those games. It's when someone plays well against your team and you don't watch the player often you think he is good and if he played badly you automatically think he is bad if you haven't seen other good games of him.Jonny Evans.
Has there ever been a non-United fan who rates him at all?
That said, I don't really rate him either. He should have gone on to be a lot better than he is.
yeah, he is one of them and to be incredibly unpopular:
Pogba, Smalling, Jones, DDG, Herrera, Blind, Evans, Welbeck. All these would get rated completely different if they would play for Arsenal/Pool.
We kept conceding the first goal and then finding it difficult to break teams down. The two worked hand in hand, but without the shaky defence putting us on the back foot every game, our attackers would have found it easier.The reason we weren't in the champions league was simply because we just didn't score enough, or make chances enough to win games. The defence wasn't great but it wasn't awful to the extent that it cost us always. It was us not making any chances and never scoring goals which meant even conceding 1 goal usually meant dropping points. Moyes didn't know what to do to make the offence work and in trying to get it, he made the defence unorganized as well.
yeah, he is one of them and to be incredibly unpopular:
Pogba, Smalling, Jones, DDG, Herrera, Blind, Evans, Welbeck. All these would get rated completely different if they would play for Arsenal/Pool.
Definitely not De Gea. Any Liverpool fans I know accept that he's a top quality player. If they can recognize it then I'm sure we would too if he was playing for a rival.
How was ours composed of better players?Moyes is a competent manager (as proven by his time at Everton). The problem was that the squad at United never gave him a chance. As an example, our defence last season was worse than Everton's under Moyes, despite being composed of superior players. That can only be because the individuals never believed in him.
I couldn't disagree with that more. The difference in the team when Rafael is fit and playing and when he isn't, is huge. Shaw whilst very talented and having a very good first season at Southampton; hasn't played a competitive game for us yet.Between Shaw and Rafael, I think the former is the better player.
It's been a long time since being able to defend has been enough to be a succesful fullback for a top club. It's about being able to do both things now. Provide width and support to the attack (as a minimum), whilst also being able to defend when on the back foot, and be fast and fit enough to do both when required.
Evra was at his best when he'd stretch teams and basically terrorise his side of the pitch all game long. He didn't disappear defensively like in his last year or two, but he was always rash and last ditch/maniacle rather than solid. His speed bailed him out a lot.
Nothing to say Shaw can't be as succesful just because his defensive side is his strong suit. There's examples of players who have done exactly this, and I agree with the basic point...when you get a fullback who is ONLY interested in attacking you end up with something akin to Glen Johnson, but if United are going to carry on being succesful the emphasis will often be on attack (e.g. the QPR game). Every top fullback of recent years has been able to do both, one way or another.
What I want is less stories about lack of fitness, less pratting around on the internet. It doesn't create the greatest vibe when you're yet to even pull on the shirt in a competitive game.
Defenders are required to defend, first and foremost. I don't think that will ever change. Evra's defending was good at United during the good times. We've all seen it at its worst and we should be thankful we no longer need to put up with his constant shitty defending of the latter years.
Shaw's dribbling and link up play needs work, but he is a good crosser, powerful and pacey. Like I said, though, his defending is where it's at. Seldom are young defenders that developed in that respect, hence he's so highly rated.
Baines is not that great. Evra and Cashley are still better than him by some distance. No amount of free kicks and beatles hair do changes that.
Ughh, outdated and anti-philosophical. Go back to the 90s.
Ay, they're meant to let attackers run past them at every given opportunity at the expense of goals.
Let's be serious, it isn't a black or white debate. Attacking full backs are incredibly important and we all know it's now a prerequisite to play the position, but even now, the best teams are looking for guys that defend, and that is always the first thought.
Philip Lahm's reputation didn't come about as a result of his attacking play, nor did Ashley Cole's. It was part of the package, but for my money they're the two best full backs of their generation and their defensive work is the main reason why.
Still better? Not sure about that - they haven't been for a while.Baines is not that great. Evra and Cashley are still better than him by some distance. No amount of free kicks and beatles hair do changes that.
Baines is not that great. Evra and Cashley are still better than him by some distance. No amount of free kicks and beatles hair do changes that.
When players like Lampard did it, its okay, but Lukaku against West Brom was ridiculous. He was there for one year on loan, hardly enough time to build up a bond with the club and it's fans. It annoys me to see it, and it's happening more and more these days.I'm not sure if this thread is for non-united related unpopular opinions but I really don't see the problem with players not celebrating a goal against one of their former clubs. Lukaku and Sturridge in particular seem to have come in for a lot of stick for doing this. Just seems like a harmless way of acknowledging the support the player received from his former club's fans and staff when the team he currently plays for are already overjoyed because he's just scored.
