fair point. those two really are 'more than clubs'.
United's transfer dealings
- Thread starter CnutOfAllCnuts
- Start date
fair point. those two really are 'more than clubs'.
In general, I'd say I'm very happy with the overall transfer policy of the club. I don't want us to pay unsensible fees and wages. Buying young, talented players, and moulding them into the players we want and need is just about perfect IMO, coupled with the odd experienced signing and the odd punt.
Within that policy, one could always argue about certain players, or the type of players we buy(I.E. the big CM debate) but the policy is just about spot on. I don't want United to break their transfer record buying an unproven Brazilian youngster, with a huge chunk of the fee going to the agent. It's just madness, and if the club pulled the plug, they did so rightly.
Within that policy, one could always argue about certain players, or the type of players we buy(I.E. the big CM debate) but the policy is just about spot on. I don't want United to break their transfer record buying an unproven Brazilian youngster, with a huge chunk of the fee going to the agent. It's just madness, and if the club pulled the plug, they did so rightly.
I would like us to stop trying to conduct our transfers and contract negotiations with our heads buried in the sand.
Players and selling clubs will go to wherever the money is. Either be willing to pay the money or don't waste everyone's time over and over again making a big pubic scene about a player we're refusing to pay enough for.
We look like the weiner kid who pretends to hang around with the cool ones instead of just doing his own thing.
Players and selling clubs will go to wherever the money is. Either be willing to pay the money or don't waste everyone's time over and over again making a big pubic scene about a player we're refusing to pay enough for.
We look like the weiner kid who pretends to hang around with the cool ones instead of just doing his own thing.
Yes, yes and yes.
Four years and counting since Berbatov signed on the dotted line though.
So unless we are prepared to pay whatever the selling club demands, we should never make enquiries about a player?
dont mind Noods, he's got a bad case of pre-season blues
I reckon 5 years ago you'd have paid £40M for Modric, now you're going to bank on Cleverley stepping up. Probably worth the risk and more fun to watch.
I like our approach, almost exclusively signing players between 18 and 24 means we have much more continuity and the players, due to their age and the longer-than-average time spent with the club, feel more like they belong to us. This is especially compelling when you look at the older players we have signed in recent years, and see how they've struggled to 'belong'. It makes supporting the club much more enjoyable. I'm also entirely in agreement with us not paying obscene wages, even if it means we miss out on greedy feckers like Hazard. We're a football club, not some rich cnut's plaything, and we have by far the most sensible approach to wages in the Premier League.
We really do need cover for Carrick though. Not a superstar, just a young defensively-capable midfielder. I'm sure there are some about...
We really do need cover for Carrick though. Not a superstar, just a young defensively-capable midfielder. I'm sure there are some about...
You would say that, wouldn't you, being an Arsenal fan.
I agree with you in that particular case though.
Wish you guys would hurryup and get Wilshire fit again as I can't wait to see the pair of them in midfield for England.
We spend something like 30-40mill on players every season. Tho we sell players so our net spend is obviously lower, but take away Staam, Ronaldo and arguably Beckham we havent sold anyone we still needed to keep hold of. The only thing that'd seem to please some would be if we on top of that brought in a 40+mill player every other season and raised our average spending to 50-60mill. I think we're doing alright as it is!
Just for reference to my above point about signing younger players, because some chucklefeck always comes along and says it's exaggerated, here's the likely squad for next season and the age at which they first signed for United, not including years spent in our academy:
De Gea 20
Lindegaard 26
Johnstone 17
Ferdinand 23
Vidic 24
Smalling 20
Evans 17
Rafael 17
Jones 19
Evra 24
Brady 17
Carrick 24
Scholes 17
Anderson 19
Cleverley 17
Powell 18
Giggs 17
Valencia 23
Young 25
Nani 21
Kagawa 23
Rooney 18
Welbeck 17
Hernandez 21
Macheda 17
Hell, just consider the outfield players (Fergie prefers experienced keepers, DDG aside) we've signed that have been over the age of 23 in the last few years:
Young: Too early to judge, but he doesn't entirely seem to fit.
Owen: Always felt out of place, but didn't cost anything.
Berbatov: Alas, poor Berba.
Hargreaves:
De Gea 20
Lindegaard 26
Johnstone 17
Ferdinand 23
Vidic 24
Smalling 20
Evans 17
Rafael 17
Jones 19
Evra 24
Brady 17
Carrick 24
Scholes 17
Anderson 19
Cleverley 17
Powell 18
Giggs 17
Valencia 23
Young 25
Nani 21
Kagawa 23
Rooney 18
Welbeck 17
Hernandez 21
Macheda 17
Hell, just consider the outfield players (Fergie prefers experienced keepers, DDG aside) we've signed that have been over the age of 23 in the last few years:
Young: Too early to judge, but he doesn't entirely seem to fit.
Owen: Always felt out of place, but didn't cost anything.
Berbatov: Alas, poor Berba.
Hargreaves:
100% agree with this.
Fergie gets stick for his "value" stance. That doesnt mean he wants to operate on a budget it just means he wants to pay what a player is worth.
Sometimes we need to break the bank to fix a problem. Ten years ago we paid 30 mil to get stability in defence for years by buying one of the top defenders in the world. Our midfield has been crying out for a 'Ferdinand-like' long term fix for a long while for instance - 30-40 mil to get that essential player that keeps us at the top level.
That's when I'd like us to pay what it takes - I'm happy with 'value' signings in the main, because we are very good at securing them, but I don't think they should be the only way we get players, as we will end up like Arsenal. The stature of our club dictates that we can spend that much once every few years if needed.
I don't think Lucas was a player we needed to spend that much on, but I cannot second guess SAF
That's when I'd like us to pay what it takes - I'm happy with 'value' signings in the main, because we are very good at securing them, but I don't think they should be the only way we get players, as we will end up like Arsenal. The stature of our club dictates that we can spend that much once every few years if needed.
I don't think Lucas was a player we needed to spend that much on, but I cannot second guess SAF
I thought Veron was the answer to our midfield and look how that turned out.
I'm happy United didnt sign Modric or Moura for ridiculous fees. They are excellent players but not at the prices quoted.
I am still against us signing Baines unless its for less than £10m as he adds very little to our squad.
Berba was one of Fergies gambles - a player that could have added an extra dimension - it didnt happen and we lost money on the deal but that's what happens sometimes you can't be right all the time.
I feel the same way about berba as I do about Young - I don't think we needed either player.
I am still against us signing Baines unless its for less than £10m as he adds very little to our squad.
Berba was one of Fergies gambles - a player that could have added an extra dimension - it didnt happen and we lost money on the deal but that's what happens sometimes you can't be right all the time.
I feel the same way about berba as I do about Young - I don't think we needed either player.
He wasn't 'the answer' though. SAF bought him 'to add an extra-dimension in European games' - an expensive experiment that didn't work. He wasn't actively seeking Veron, but was made aware that he had become 'relatively cheap' at the time (he was genuinely thought of as one of the best at the time). That was SAF trying to capitalise on an already well-developed sides success by spending some serious money - something which I'm not really in favour of.
It's completely different to the Rio transfer - we had a defence which was being held together by a 37 year old Laurent Blanc at the time. Our midfield needs similar attention in my opinion.
I adore our approach and I'm totally for it bar our stubborness to adress obvious weaknesses in recent years.
I think you always have to spend within your means. It's just that the means that the likes of City, Chelsea and PSG have is much greater. And to what extent we utilize our means is something I can't know so there you go.
When it comes to individual dealings I can analyse that.
Where I would have done things is differently is central midfield where I think we've been extremely reluctant to the point where it's gotten bizarre. A team challenging for major honors went into the season last year with 4 central midfielders in Carrick, Giggs, Anderson and Cleverley, one of whom being consistently injured and the other both injured and untested and the last being 39. Not only is that a bit low on quality and players close to their prime, but it also leaves ONE CM who can actually defend.
So yeah, I'd go out and buy a quality central midfielder. I don't understand why we're so shy in doing so.
Apart from that I'm not sure the Young signing made that much sense. I would have rather have seen us sign someone more technically gifted which we seem to be now trying to do with Hazard and Lucas but do we really need so many? That would have been a combined total of 45 million we were willing to spend on wide players despite having two of the best in the league. I understand getting in one more technically gifted type in Lucas but taking that into consideration I'm not so sure young made all that much sense. It's a bit of overload.
When it comes to individual dealings I can analyse that.
Where I would have done things is differently is central midfield where I think we've been extremely reluctant to the point where it's gotten bizarre. A team challenging for major honors went into the season last year with 4 central midfielders in Carrick, Giggs, Anderson and Cleverley, one of whom being consistently injured and the other both injured and untested and the last being 39. Not only is that a bit low on quality and players close to their prime, but it also leaves ONE CM who can actually defend.
So yeah, I'd go out and buy a quality central midfielder. I don't understand why we're so shy in doing so.
Apart from that I'm not sure the Young signing made that much sense. I would have rather have seen us sign someone more technically gifted which we seem to be now trying to do with Hazard and Lucas but do we really need so many? That would have been a combined total of 45 million we were willing to spend on wide players despite having two of the best in the league. I understand getting in one more technically gifted type in Lucas but taking that into consideration I'm not so sure young made all that much sense. It's a bit of overload.
The problem United have is that the more the club fails to attract their top transfer targets....and I mean players whom we have to compete with other big clubs to secure....the more we may become less of an attraction to other top players.
I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that elite players want to play with the best in the world....Rooney apparently cited this as one of his reasons he was unhappy at United (perceiving the lack of world-class signings as a lack of ambition) If United continue to miss out on players they are openly linked with then this could reasonably be interpreted as lacking ambition.
If the club misses out on Lucas then it is another player added to a growing list of unsuccessful negotiations. In my opinion it is starting to get slightly embarrassing and Ferguson can wheel out his "value" rhetoric as much as he wants, it will simply be perceived as an excuse for failure. It has now got to the point where it is expected.
When a pattern emerges it generally indicates a trend and I think United are not going to break this trend anytime soon.
I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that elite players want to play with the best in the world....Rooney apparently cited this as one of his reasons he was unhappy at United (perceiving the lack of world-class signings as a lack of ambition) If United continue to miss out on players they are openly linked with then this could reasonably be interpreted as lacking ambition.
If the club misses out on Lucas then it is another player added to a growing list of unsuccessful negotiations. In my opinion it is starting to get slightly embarrassing and Ferguson can wheel out his "value" rhetoric as much as he wants, it will simply be perceived as an excuse for failure. It has now got to the point where it is expected.
When a pattern emerges it generally indicates a trend and I think United are not going to break this trend anytime soon.
Kagawa is a good signing, Powell I won't expect too much. Hopefully if we get another midfielder (Carrick understudy) and perhaps another left back, I'd be happy for the summer.
It's obvious that SAF isn't quite happy enough with the squad. There have been some bids made. Some we know about (like RvP) but I don't think that's it. Not everyone goes public with this stuff.
Seriously need someone in midfield or left back. We can't go another transfer window without adding to either spot. We in fact got weaker in the full back area. It won't do us any good having the likes of Jones covering three different positions. He will never be get comfortable playing that way and our game will suffer in return like it did last season.
Value isn't an excuse this season. Sahin is available for loan. Montolivo was available for free. Kagawa didn't exactly break our bank. Neither did Cazorla for Arsenal. 4 proven quality players.
Hell, Milan seem to be selling everyone. Take a punt on Kevin Prince Boateng. He's got great drive. Really stepped up his game every year since he was at Portsmouth. PL won't be problem with him.
He cost Milan like 5 or 6m. Who the hell are Milan's background staff? They're getting great deal in the transfer market over and over again. They're always at the forefront in the fitness department. Great coaches. SAF should send the brains of our operation (Phelan) over there for a little tour. Just don't give him a moustache if he's to be undercover.
Seriously need someone in midfield or left back. We can't go another transfer window without adding to either spot. We in fact got weaker in the full back area. It won't do us any good having the likes of Jones covering three different positions. He will never be get comfortable playing that way and our game will suffer in return like it did last season.
Value isn't an excuse this season. Sahin is available for loan. Montolivo was available for free. Kagawa didn't exactly break our bank. Neither did Cazorla for Arsenal. 4 proven quality players.
Hell, Milan seem to be selling everyone. Take a punt on Kevin Prince Boateng. He's got great drive. Really stepped up his game every year since he was at Portsmouth. PL won't be problem with him.
He cost Milan like 5 or 6m. Who the hell are Milan's background staff? They're getting great deal in the transfer market over and over again. They're always at the forefront in the fitness department. Great coaches. SAF should send the brains of our operation (Phelan) over there for a little tour. Just don't give him a moustache if he's to be undercover.
Agreed. Perhaps I'm cynical but it seems the club allow rumours over this player or that to proliferate around the time season tickets are being sold, then they fail to appear.
montolivo is quality but had a poor season last year and not sure if he is someone we need after signing kagawa. Montolivo the yaer before was superb however. Furthermore, he could easily be another aquilani and not settle in england.
Milan would not sell KPB unless it was for silly money. Good player, agreed.
I was rather hoping we were keeping tabs and putting together bid(s) for lars bender (or sven if we want someone slightly more defensive minded)...or hell even both.
carzola is a typical arsenal signing/player. we don't go for players like him.
It is worrying that we have failed to get probably 7 or 8 of our top targets recently.
That said, in many cas it is outside forces to blame and not e clubs fault.
We do need to push the boat out once in a while though, that much is evident.
That said, in many cas it is outside forces to blame and not e clubs fault.
We do need to push the boat out once in a while though, that much is evident.
I agree, it is a bit embarrassing our attempts in the transf market these days. When you suggest to other fans that your club is going to sign RVP or whoever and they laugh like it is not possible for a club like United FFs to buy a top player it reflects the common perception of our strength in the transfer market.
Why is that evident?
Transfer window is far from over and I don't see SAF, telling that he's happy with a squad and there will be no deals or stuff like that.
Little patience is always required in reaching agreements.
Little patience is always required in reaching agreements.
I thought 30 million on a 19 year old was pushing the boat out. Couldn't have expected the PSG thing to happen at the last moment like that.
Are you embarassed?
Seems to be the exact cycle Arsenal fans went through 3-4 years ago, albeit with a higher cash ceiling.
Yes, funny how the transfer window falls around that time.
Even before the Glazers our transfer business was always a mess look at the Ronaldinho saga under Kenyon, we won't sign RVP it's the usual press whipping up a state of frenzy same as we were supposed to sign Sneijder or Nasri last year. We aren't in a position to buy the very best established stars so we invest heavily in the very best up and coming second tier players with a view to having them make the leap and also have a sell on value.
That and keeping the money-laden teams out of the equation and I don't see how that can be done.
We could have been so much better (maybe) if we just splashed in a couple of extra million for some of the deals which were being reported. I wouldn't like us to waste money left right and center but when its the player we need we shouldn't have to settle for second or third best.
In that case, players such as Lewandowski are the true reality.
Plus, there can be some negotiations going on, behind media's eye.
No, it was Laporta and his management team who transformed the finances of Barca. The Rosell clan then carried out some ridiculous ''big bath'' accounting on the final year of Laporta's reign in order to make them look fiscally competent over the following two years.