Uniteds summer activity

Great post Joga, I'm constantly baffled by comments like "Rodwell and Young this summer and we're sorted", not to mention this idea our own fans have that players don't want to come here.

I'm a big fan of Rodwell (Which is why he's on my list above) and long term I think he'd become a top player at United, but this summer he'd solve very little unless he had a Smalling-esque up turn when pulling on the United shirt.
 
UnitedRoadRed said:
Van Der Sar and Hargreaves moving on, so replace them.
Then replace Giggs and Scholes with established stars when they go.
Maintain quality player headcount while letting youngsters go as they don't fulfil promise.
It's kinda what we've been doing for years.
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No it isn't. We have hardly ever brought in direct replacements for specific players. What we have done regularly before the sale of Ronaldo, is bought established players with the specific intention of freshening up the first team.

In fact before the sale of Ronaldo we had only ever bought 4 teenagers in all SAF's time here. Rooney, Ronaldo, Anderson and Nani. Ferige has always preferred buying established players with experience, most often in an attempt to regain the title.

Youth has always been given a chance, but never with an emphasis like today, and never at the expense of the quality of the first team.This mirrors Wenger's ill fated attempts a few years ago to depend solely on youth coming through and it ultimately failed. Tellingly, Wenger seems to have reviewed his original policy and his last 5 signings have all been established players. Koscielny, Squillaci, Arshavin, Chamakh and Vermaelen.

People often confuse the term 'established' with famous or experienced. Mistakenly claiming we would have to pay £30-40m to improve the first team. This is simply not true. Vidic and Evra were both experienced and established, but didn't cost the earth. Yet it would be difficult to argue that they have not significantly improved the first team.

Finding players such as these has always been Fergie's speciality. Stam, Johnsen, RVN, Cantona, Kanchelskis, Keane, Ince, Cole, Park, Hernandez, Yorke, Solksjaer, Irwin, Schmeichel. On top of that he has never before seemed frightened about buying consistent performers, very experienced players to come in and produce straight away, a la Mourinho, but not quite to that extent. Blanc, Berg, Sheringham, Larsson and VDS immediately spring to mind.

I don't really care who SAF signs as long as there is more focus on the first team, ie players who can improve the first team now. Not only youth who may or may not come through in a couple of years. Modric and Sahin are extremely exciting possibilities imo as they offer many of the attributes the majority of our current midfielders lack. Rodwell is less established, but for the same reasons we gambled on Smalling, i would definitely take a similar risk with Rodwell. Unquestionable talent and massive potential.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
I think Donkey's Ears is looking for a bit more risk, a few more foreign players etc...

Let's say, Buffon for VDS ?

Pastore for Rodwell

and Sanchez for Young...

But I agree on the point that we rotate, we just play the freshes players which suit the best tactics and SAF is the mastermind of all of it.

Again, I wouldn't mind if we go for Young but if he's gonna cost 25m, I'd say we should target other priorities.

Rodwell again is a risk with his niggling injuries so far and Neuer is very highly rated but as a GK, I'd look for experience and communication which Neuer still lacks both.

Just my opinion though.
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No I'm after players that address our obvious and immediate shortcomings.

There are plenty of people out there who can improve our midfield and are gettable. I don't Rodwell and Young fulfils that.

I really want Rodwell but if it's a choice between someone who can come in and make an immediate difference or Rodwell then I'll take the latter no matter how much potential I think Rodwell might have.
 
Joga_Bonito said:
This is exactly what I have been thinking while reading some of these threads over the last few weeks. On the one hand, there are some people who appear to believe that we can only attract players from the conference, for some reason, and that anyone who plays at a higher level wouldn't possibly choose to sign for what is more than arguably the third most attractive club in world football, and on the other, you have people who have consistently complained about the lack of quality in certain areas of the first 16-18 players in the squad suggesting that we should buy at least two players -- Rodwell and Young -- and thus, essentially spend all of our transfer funds on them, when it is highly unlikely that either would actually improve anything other than the squad as a whole (and then only just).

To be fair, Rodwell would probably be a wise investment at some point, but not at the expense of players that could add genuine and immediate quality to the players that we already have, in my opinion. Unless Sir Alex either doesn't believe that we need to improve the center of midfield, or can't find or afford the player(s) that would achieve that goal, Rodwell should be, at best, an investment for the future alongside another player who is better than anything that we already have at the club.

As to Ashley Young, again, I just don't see how he can genuinely improve us as a team. He has certain qualities that would be useful, of course, but we would also lose a similar number of qualities if he was used instead of, for example, Valencia (and I would argue that we would lose far more if he was used instead of Nani). As much as I admire Valencia, the only reason that I would be in favor of signing a wide player would be if they either had the present or potential quality to impove what he already brings to the team. I understand that some believe that we need extra cover in those areas, but I am almost always in favor of doing that with players who can eventually become first choice and improve on what we already have.

Having said that, if Sir Alex simply wanted to find some cover and has decided that he will need to spend the bulk of his transfer money on other areas of the team, I could then understand him signing a player like Young, although I would still rather that he bought a younger player with the potential to improve dramatically. And Sir Alex has bought players before who I haven't been terribly keen on, such as Dwight Yorke, and they have improved tremendously while playing in a much better side.

I would, however, be majorly surprised if we spent £30m+ on two players who would not currently improve us as a team and who would not solve any of the issues that have been evident from watching United over the last few years. In fact, I would much rather that we bought nobody and waited until we can find the right players than spend that much money on two players, one of which is still very young and needs to fulfill their potential (and who still wouldn't solve our midfield problems even when that happens, in my opinion), and another who is at an age where he really should improve our first eleven, even if he is relatively cheap.
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Another very good post from you Joga
 
Ringo 07 said:
How do you know? Id be pretty sure that he was just using us as a bargaining way to get a better deal with Barca. Its not often a South American star chooses and English club over Real and Barca and I sure enough every rag tabloid had their own wild version of why he never came!
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An interview with Ronaldinho and another with a board member of PSG.
 
Sign Modric and I will be happy, but that won't happen. He will cost way too much money.
 
Transfer muppets...... its cock out time. I can't see us singing anyone other than Rodwell, Young and De Gea (or anotehr to keeper) this summer. Rodwell to be developed, Young to sort out the left and a Keeper. Cleverley can maybe play attacking mid if we go 433/451 and Welbeck will get games too. Then Petrucci, Pogba and Morrison will surely get a small taste of action also! Macheda to stay on loan!

Alex Ferguson says Manchester United will buy three players this summer | The Sun |Sport|Football
ALEX FERGUSON reckons he can land as many as THREE of his top transfer targets in the summer.
Big changes are expected at Manchester United, with a clutch of players retiring or seeing their contracts end.

And Fergie has insisted the cash will be there for him to bring in top-class replacements during the close season.

He said: "We have certain targets in mind and I think two or three will be fulfilled. There's no question of that.

"The Glazer family have always been supportive of our desires to improve the team."

Top of his list is likely to be a goalkeeper, with either Schalke's Manuel Neuer or Atletico Madrid's David de Gea in the frame to replace Edwin van der Sar. The Scot is also likely to boost his midfield. Wesley Sneijder, Jack Rodwell and Blackpool's Charlie Adam are all in the running.

Fergie could look for a new centre-back, too, with Bolton's Gary Cahill and Thiago Silva of AC Milan among the group of possibles.

A new forward seems less likely, as United's boss has declared himself happy with the striking options he has.

He added: "What we are good at is bringing young players to the club, like Chicharito.

"If you look at the last six years, we've brought through young players like Ronaldo and Nani.

"We're good at that and I don't think we should change what we're good at. When we identify the right young players, that's the way we'll go."
 
gambit28 said:
Yes but only in a 3 man midfield.
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Whether we sign Neuer or De Gea, I hope they can form a good partnership with Lindgaard. Imagine something like this:

Lindgaard - De Gea

Rafael - Cahill - Vidic - Evra

Rodwell

Nani - Sneijder - Bale

Chicharito​

Immense!
 
Joga_Bonito said:
This is exactly what I have been thinking while reading some of these threads over the last few weeks. On the one hand, there are some people who appear to believe that we can only attract players from the conference, for some reason, and that anyone who plays at a higher level wouldn't possibly choose to sign for what is more than arguably the third most attractive club in world football, and on the other, you have people who have consistently complained about the lack of quality in certain areas of the first 16-18 players in the squad suggesting that we should buy at least two players -- Rodwell and Young -- and thus, essentially spend all of our transfer funds on them, when it is highly unlikely that either would actually improve anything other than the squad as a whole (and then only just).

To be fair, Rodwell would probably be a wise investment at some point, but not at the expense of players that could add genuine and immediate quality to the players that we already have, in my opinion. Unless Sir Alex either doesn't believe that we need to improve the center of midfield, or can't find or afford the player(s) that would achieve that goal, Rodwell should be, at best, an investment for the future alongside another player who is better than anything that we already have at the club.

As to Ashley Young, again, I just don't see how he can genuinely improve us as a team. He has certain qualities that would be useful, of course, but we would also lose a similar number of qualities if he was used instead of, for example, Valencia (and I would argue that we would lose far more if he was used instead of Nani). As much as I admire Valencia, the only reason that I would be in favor of signing a wide player would be if they either had the present or potential quality to impove what he already brings to the team. I understand that some believe that we need extra cover in those areas, but I am almost always in favor of doing that with players who can eventually become first choice and improve on what we already have.

Having said that, if Sir Alex simply wanted to find some cover and has decided that he will need to spend the bulk of his transfer money on other areas of the team, I could then understand him signing a player like Young, although I would still rather that he bought a younger player with the potential to improve dramatically. And Sir Alex has bought players before who I haven't been terribly keen on, such as Dwight Yorke, and they have improved tremendously while playing in a much better side.

I would, however, be majorly surprised if we spent £30m+ on two players who would not currently improve us as a team and who would not solve any of the issues that have been evident from watching United over the last few years. In fact, I would much rather that we bought nobody and waited until we can find the right players than spend that much money on two players, one of which is still very young and needs to fulfill their potential (and who still wouldn't solve our midfield problems even when that happens, in my opinion), and another who is at an age where he really should improve our first eleven, even if he is relatively cheap.
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Good post.
 
I will not believe it until I see it. I think at most we will buy a relatively expensive goalkeeper (for around £12m), and perhaps a bargain winger or central midfielder like Young and Adam. I don't think at all that any of those targets is what some imagine them to be like Sanchez, Pastore or Hamsik.
 
Sarni said:
I will not believe it until I see it. I think at most we will buy a relatively expensive goalkeeper (for around £12m), and perhaps a bargain winger or central midfielder like Young and Adam. I don't think at all that any of those targets is what some imagine them to be like Sanchez, Pastore or Hamsik.
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Whilst I agree with you most don't expect Sanchez, Pastore or Hamsik. They are just some of the most exciting prospects in football and they are attracting the attention of some of the biggest clubs so they are a larg topic of discussion.
 
SAF buys experience from the Premier League and potential from the rest of the world; there have been very few exceptions to that basic formula over the years. Muppets don't know how to manage football clubs; there has been zero exception to that basic formula over the years.
 
ciderman9000000 said:
SAF buys experience from the Premier League and potential from the rest of the world; there have been very few exceptions to that basic formula over the years. Muppets don't know how to manage football clubs; there has been zero exception to that basic formula over the years.
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Veron disagrees. People are being unfair on the majority of us muppets. We don't expect these glamour siginings at United but would love them is all. We trust in Fergies judgement. Having a conversation about some of the best players in the world, their merits and how they would fit into our or any other team, whats wrong with that?
 
ciderman9000000 said:
SAF buys experience from the Premier League and potential from the rest of the world; there have been very few exceptions to that basic formula over the years. Muppets don't know how to manage football clubs; there has been zero exception to that basic formula over the years.
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Ruud, Stam, Veron, Evra 'who was a very good player at the time of his arrival regardless of what most would like to think' Hughes :smirk:

I think there are players that Ferguson is willing to spend big on outside of england. The Veron experiment didn't bode well but he was messing with a winning formula not one that drastically needs improving.
 
gambit28 said:
Whilst I agree with you most don't expect Sanchez, Pastore or Hamsik. They are just some of the most exciting prospects in football and they are attracting the attention of some of the biggest clubs so they are a larg topic of discussion.
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True, and I would really love us to bring a player like that i.e. someone who could possibly emulate Ronaldo for us rather than those solid, hard working performeds but the way market is we are probably one of the least expected destinations for the very top talent. And it pisses me off that a joke of a club like City will sign better players because they have unlimited budget, they don't deserve that.
 
gambit28 said:
Veron disagrees. People are being unfair on the majority of us muppets. We don't expect these glamour siginings at United but would love them is all. We trust in Fergies judgement. Having a conversation about some of the best players in the world, their merits and how they would fit into our or any other team, whats wrong with that?
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Nothing wrong with that at all, gambit. It's all good as long as you can indeed trust SAF's judgement, and not become all irate and hissy-fittish when faced with the inevitable disappointments like some spoilt little brat who's mum has told him to turn off Football Manager and tidy his room; something which some muppets blatantly are unable to do (not including you btw).
 
ciderman9000000 said:
Nothing wrong with that at all, gambit. It's all good as long as you can indeed trust SAF's judgement, and not become all irate and hissy-fittish when faced with the inevitable disappointments like some spoilt little brat who's mum has told him to turn off Football Manager and tidy his room; something which some muppets blatantly are unable to do (not including you btw).
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I would love us to make a prestige purchase though, just to shut up the we have no money and can't compete brigade.
 
I must admit I dont get the negativity about young. He's a mid 20s player, English, who has moved up a notch in the last 12 months and is carrying villa this year. He's started to excel for England and is incredibly versatile. I'd be delighted if we signed him.
 
RedRichio said:
I must admit I dont get the negativity about young. He's a mid 20s player, English, who has moved up a notch in the last 12 months and is carrying villa this year. He's started to excel for England and is incredibly versatile. I'd be delighted if we signed him.
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Me too. Id take him anyday over the likes of Hamsik.
 
RedRichio said:
I must admit I dont get the negativity about young. He's a mid 20s player, English, who has moved up a notch in the last 12 months and is carrying villa this year. He's started to excel for England and is incredibly versatile. I'd be delighted if we signed him.
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Spot on.

He's a very good player and his versatility and probable lower fee makes him a much more viable target than a lot of other players who might develop into "world class" talents (whatever that is) but who equally might not.

Sometimes the low risk option is the sensible one. I'm sure if he goes to Liverpool or Spurs and does well people will be moaning that we didn't get him when it was clearly good business at the time.
 
RedRichio said:
I must admit I dont get the negativity about young. He's a mid 20s player, English, who has moved up a notch in the last 12 months and is carrying villa this year. He's started to excel for England and is incredibly versatile. I'd be delighted if we signed him.
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It's more about where would we play him and who would be play instead of that concerns me.
 
RonaldoVII said:
It's more about where would we play him and who would be play instead of that concerns me.
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He can cover both wings, so being back-up for both Nani and Valencia would be very useful for the course of the season. Only Park can effectively do this role in our squad. Giggs might be playing his last season, while Cleverley/Obertan/Bebe are not exactly there yet.
 
Ringo 07 said:
Transfer muppets...... its cock out time. I can't see us singing anyone other than Rodwell, Young and De Gea (or anotehr to keeper) this summer. Rodwell to be developed, Young to sort out the left and a Keeper. Cleverley can maybe play attacking mid if we go 433/451 and Welbeck will get games too. Then Petrucci, Pogba and Morrison will surely get a small taste of action also! Macheda to stay on loan!

Alex Ferguson says Manchester United will buy three players this summer | The Sun |Sport|Football
ALEX FERGUSON reckons he can land as many as THREE of his top transfer targets in the summer.
Big changes are expected at Manchester United, with a clutch of players retiring or seeing their contracts end.

And Fergie has insisted the cash will be there for him to bring in top-class replacements during the close season.

He said: "We have certain targets in mind and I think two or three will be fulfilled. There's no question of that.

"The Glazer family have always been supportive of our desires to improve the team."

Top of his list is likely to be a goalkeeper, with either Schalke's Manuel Neuer or Atletico Madrid's David de Gea in the frame to replace Edwin van der Sar. The Scot is also likely to boost his midfield. Wesley Sneijder, Jack Rodwell and Blackpool's Charlie Adam are all in the running.

Fergie could look for a new centre-back, too, with Bolton's Gary Cahill and Thiago Silva of AC Milan among the group of possibles.

A new forward seems less likely, as United's boss has declared himself happy with the striking options he has.

He added: "What we are good at is bringing young players to the club, like Chicharito.

"If you look at the last six years, we've brought through young players like Ronaldo and Nani.

"We're good at that and I don't think we should change what we're good at. When we identify the right young players, that's the way we'll go."
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Hopefully we will be at the end of the season. Glory, Glory Man United!
 
RedRichio said:
I must admit I dont get the negativity about young. He's a mid 20s player, English, who has moved up a notch in the last 12 months and is carrying villa this year. He's started to excel for England and is incredibly versatile. I'd be delighted if we signed him.
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RedRover said:
Spot on.

He's a very good player and his versatility and probable lower fee makes him a much more viable target than a lot of other players who might develop into "world class" talents (whatever that is) but who equally might not.

Sometimes the low risk option is the sensible one. I'm sure if he goes to Liverpool or Spurs and does well people will be moaning that we didn't get him when it was clearly good business at the time.
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Welbeck has more versatility than Young, and he has 'carried' Sunderland too.

He is only 20, and a fantastic homegrown prospect.

Why are posters so keen to dismiss him, but eager to hype up other players that are not at United?
 
apotheosis said:
In fact before the sale of Ronaldo we had only ever bought 4 teenagers in all SAF's time here. Rooney, Ronaldo, Anderson and Nani. Ferige has always preferred buying established players with experience, most often in an attempt to regain the title.
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Lee Sharpe, Jules Maiorana, Pat McGibbon, Graeme Tomlinson, Nick Culkin, Erik Nevland, Jonathan Greening, Luke Steele, the Da Silvas...
 
I wouldn't be disappointed if we just signed this guy:

 
johnmufc said:
Welbeck has more versatility than Young, and he has 'carried' Sunderland too.
He is only 20, and a fantastic homegrown prospect.

Why are posters so keen to dismiss him, but eager to hype up other players that are not at United?
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Not really.

He's done very well this year given its his first season playing regular first team football but he's hardly "carried" Sunderland. Gyan has been very good this season and arguably the star of the show and in general they're a good team who try to play decent football.

If Welbeck comes back to United and develops he may be a very good player but he's nowhere near the finished article.

Young on the other hand has been a top player in the PL for the last three or four years, in a team which have been up until this year in and around the top 5 or 6.

Its unfair to compare a player of 20 with one season under he belt to an established pro who, right now is a better player. Giving the lad time to develop and become an established player without tagging him as a superstar is not dismissing his talent.

Young's a very good player - hence why top clubs have been linked with him for the last few years. At United he'd play a lot of games out wide on either side (and maybe even through the middle) given the number of games per season. He's also still realtively young so may get even better - at the money he'd cost he could be a bargain.
 
He's said two or three - so let's play Devil's advocate and say we'll sign just the two. One of those is almost guaranteed to be a goalkeeper, so we're looking at signing just one outfield player. How will the muppets react if Ashley Young or Jack Rodwell are the only outfield additions to the squad?
 
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