United under LvG: verdict so far!

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Been a long time since I saw a City side bricking it against United, never mind a United with ten men. Might say more about City's confidence than our attacking prowess, but we got at them nevertheless.

Get a defender with a brain, we could see things take another leap.
 
If we sort our defense out, we will be absolutely terrifying. Children supporting the opposition team will cry. Baby Jesus will blush.

It is insanely frustrating that our defending is stopping us from seeing the best from our attack.
 
Results wise not what I was expecting after the preseason games. Playing style in terms of attack we are so much better than last season. If LvG can sort out our defending we will make the top 4.
 
The Fiver:

It’s not been a great start for Van Gaal, with many people at pains to point out that David Moyes was four points better off at this stage last year – and Moyesie didn’t get to spend £150m in one summer, he just, er, took over the champions, blew a wad of cash on Marouane Fellaini, ruined the team’s confidence and forgot to do any attacking, whereas Van Gaal has no defenders, has won stuff in the past, has tried to do some attacking and has to spend half of his time making sure that Simple Chris hasn’t poked his hand in a plug socket or got his tongue stuck to a block of ice.
 
I am very optomistic with Van Gaal. I enjoy very much watching utd this season. It beggared belief that Van Gaal didn't buy a recognized cm over the summer but jones and smalling looked world class in preseason but since then both have proved to be liabilities through Smalling not being up to it and Jones proving he can never stay fit. Also I think Van Gaal fancied his chances of getting Benatia or Hummels only for those deals not to happen in the end.

But if we can sign a couple of moster defenders in january and possibly strootman then this team will have a squad to rival city and chelsea
 
sun_tzu said:
Four points off a champions league place after lots of injuries, trying to integrate a lot of summer signings.

A win against Everton, a draw against a very good Chelsea side and a 1-0 defeat away to city when down to 10 men for over half the game - thats not too bad - if you had told me we would play with 10 men and have a defence of valencia, carrick, mcnair and shaw I would have expected us to have a lot more than one goal put past us.

I'm not worried yet and - we could do a liverpool of last season and put together an amazing second half of the season so I'm remaining positive
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4 points off the bottom 3 also :angel:
4th place is really up for grabs this season. I think we have been a bit fortunate that 4th is still within our grasp baring in mind the ridiculous amount of injuries we have had.
 
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Loon said:
Been a long time since I saw a City side bricking it against United, never mind a United with ten men. Might say more about City's confidence than our attacking prowess, but we got at them nevertheless.

Get a defender with a brain, we could see things take another leap.
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I saw you slaughter them at the Etihad less than 2 years ago.
 
SammyUnited_83 said:
I feel the same.

Has us playing some good football, but ultimately for me, too much emphasis on the philosophy and injuries, and not enough focus on just winning football matches.
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That's probably where it triggers the thought of what would have been with Mourinho at times, whether consciously or not. His football was not very pretty last season for Chelsea, but he gave them the training and the belief about what to do in order to concede no goal - just win the match at all costs. And from there, he continued to build up by adding the following pieces forward and make it the very dangerous side they currently are, with a young spine of all the things the least expected.

It's all good to have the philosophy, but the best way to show how good the philosophy is remains to win matches. I hope for everyone's sake that results will come soon; we badly need to win matches now, all regardless of the rest.
 
I remain to be convinced by Van Gaal. We're playing better than last year but then again it would be difficult not to, wouldn't it? Are we really playing as well as we should have the right to expect given the standard of players we've bought? Has Van Gaal achieved anything in this first quarter that any other manager worth his salt wouldn't have achieved?

Irrespective of any excuses he needs to do better.
 
Rednotdead said:
I remain to be convinced by Van Gaal. We're playing better than last year but then again it would be difficult not to, wouldn't it? Are we really playing as well as we should have the right to expect given the standard of players we've bought? Has Van Gaal achieved anything in this first quarter that any other manager worth his salt wouldn't have achieved?

Irrespective of any excuses he needs to do better.
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Heard this a bit since the City defeat. I think unfortunately we've just got to be patient. We finished 7th last year and we've got a new manager in trying to turn the club around. It is what it is. Considering the amount of changes LVG has made and the amount of injuries we've had I think we're doing okay. I think in many ways the City match is a reflection of the season thus far. Certainly we're showing a lot more fight than last season and we've got some excellent players on the pitch but its going to be hard to win against the best when we're fielding an extremely makeshift defence.

When we get all our defenders fit and bed them into LVG's system you would assume we would start to defend better. The downside is that I think this will take time. I don't see it happening over night.

And I don't really see how he needs to do better. You can't avoid injuries and you can't expect players who are low on confidence to suddenly turn it all around and become world beaters. It seems as though a lot of people can't grasp the fact that these players are human and you can't just flick a switch and change the whole mentality and culture within a squad.
 
Rednotdead said:
I remain to be convinced by Van Gaal. We're playing better than last year but then again it would be difficult not to, wouldn't it? Are we really playing as well as we should have the right to expect given the standard of players we've bought? Has Van Gaal achieved anything in this first quarter that any other manager worth his salt wouldn't have achieved?

Irrespective of any excuses he needs to do better.
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Yes, we are playing better than we have in a long time, even IMO compared to the final season under Fergie. Problem has been not putting full performances in some games and in others spastic errors. The football we are playing is there for people to see on the pitch because of the manager and the quality of the players we've bought. It's not excuses - it's just reality, we've got a very suspect defense due to the constant switching due to injuries and suspensions has lead to results that do not reflect our overall improvement compared to last year.

Not sure how LVG can solve the problem of sheer stupidity from a player that has never shown that side - especially since he emphasized the need to not go down a man. Can't account for Jones, Evans, Smalling continuously missing after a couple games due to injury or his captain lashing out and missing some important games and at the same time one of the people who could have taken his spot go out in freaking training.

LVG is doing what he needs to but, now needs the players to step it up and finish off the work they've undoubtedly they've been putting in preparing for these games.
 
The football's been an improvement, but then again, Moyes had us playing real crappy football so maybe that's coloured my opinion a little bit when comparing the two. I think Van Gaal has been unlucky in that he's not had a settled back four to be building on. Our injury problems are ridiculous, and very annoying.

That being said, results wise, he has been disappointing. The Leicester loss was dismal, and so avoidable, if he'd not left our clueless idiots to their devices. People talk about Rodgers' and Gerrard's lack of game management at the 3-3 draw vs Palace last season, but Van Gaal and Rooney were worst at this on that day.
 
ninety said:
Heard this a bit since the City defeat. I think unfortunately we've just got to be patient. We finished 7th last year and we've got a new manager in trying to turn the club around. It is what it is. Considering the amount of changes LVG has made and the amount of injuries we've had I think we're doing okay. I think in many ways the City match is a reflection of the season thus far. Certainly we're showing a lot more fight than last season and we've got some excellent players on the pitch but its going to be hard to win against the best when we're fielding an extremely makeshift defence.

When we get all our defenders fit and bed them into LVG's system you would assume we would start to defend better. The downside is that I think this will take time. I don't see it happening over night.

And I don't really see how he needs to do better. You can't avoid injuries and you can't expect players who are low on confidence to suddenly turn it all around and become world beaters. It seems as though a lot of people can't grasp the fact that these players are human and you can't just flick a switch and change the whole mentality and culture within a squad.
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I don't accept the "low on confidence" argument. Firstly, who can you name who is low on confidence? From the starting XI on Sunday De Gea has improved from last season, Fellaini has improved and of the others (Valencia, Smalling, Rooney, Januzaj, RVP) only RVP appears to be low on confidence but I believe that's a personal thing rather than down to a squad issue.

Van Gaal "should be doing better" because he's the manager and the buck stops with him. It's his job to get the team organised and performing to their full abilities. That's why he was appointed. People talk about the defensive problems, but we're not scoring goals either. 16 goals in 10 games - it's not as though we're scoring barrowloads of goals but conceding loads as well.

When you strip it all away we're 10th in the table with a quarter of the season gone. Obviously too early to be drawing any firm conclusions, so let's see where we are at the halfway stage - but it must be clear to any observer that Van Gaal will have to do better in the next quarter, irrespective of any injury or other problems. That's what a good manager does.
 
We need around 75 points to achieve 4th place, so by mid season we should be on 35 at least. I like LvG but I'm gonna say it come January with less than 30 and we are too off the 4th place he should be gone.
 
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Rednotdead said:
I don't accept the "low on confidence" argument. Firstly, who can you name who is low on confidence? From the starting XI on Sunday De Gea has improved from last season, Fellaini has improved and of the others (Valencia, Smalling, Rooney, Januzaj, RVP) only RVP appears to be low on confidence but I believe that's a personal thing rather than down to a squad issue.

Van Gaal "should be doing better" because he's the manager and the buck stops with him. It's his job to get the team organised and performing to their full abilities. That's why he was appointed. People talk about the defensive problems, but we're not scoring goals either. 16 goals in 10 games - it's not as though we're scoring barrowloads of goals but conceding loads as well.

When you strip it all away we're 10th in the table with a quarter of the season gone. Obviously too early to be drawing any firm conclusions, so let's see where we are at the halfway stage - but it must be clear to any observer that Van Gaal will have to do better in the next quarter, irrespective of any injury or other problems. That's what a good manager does.
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Indeed, a point I've tried to make endlessly, this notion LvG that is having to build up players confidence is ridiculous when you actually evaluate it. If anything he's probably contributing to our defenders low confidence with his formations and tactics. .

Our main attacking threats RvP, Rooney, Mata all had better scoring records last year and our wing play was better. Even our defense with useless geriatrics was more solid.

We do now have a midfield though which I'm ecstatic about. Apart from more control in the centre because of the player upgrades I don't see better play in any other position.
On balance with weaker defense, width and attackers we don't look better. Just better with the ball in the place we have it the most.
 
Smores said:
Indeed, a point I've tried to make endlessly, this notion LvG that is having to build up players confidence is ridiculous when you actually evaluate it. If anything he's probably contributing to our defenders low confidence with his formations and tactics. .

Our main attacking threats RvP, Rooney, Mata all had better scoring records last year and our wing play was better. Even our defense with useless geriatrics was more solid.

We do now have a midfield though which I'm ecstatic about. Apart from more control in the centre because of the player upgrades I don't see better play in any other position.
On balance with weaker defense, width and attackers we don't look better. Just better with the ball in the place we have it the most.
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Do we really have any defenders left? I am referring to the old fashioned type of defender who used to pass much of the time on the pitch rather then in the treatment room
 
Rednotdead said:
I don't accept the "low on confidence" argument. Firstly, who can you name who is low on confidence? From the starting XI on Sunday De Gea has improved from last season, Fellaini has improved and of the others (Valencia, Smalling, Rooney, Januzaj, RVP) only RVP appears to be low on confidence but I believe that's a personal thing rather than down to a squad issue.

Van Gaal "should be doing better" because he's the manager and the buck stops with him. It's his job to get the team organised and performing to their full abilities. That's why he was appointed. People talk about the defensive problems, but we're not scoring goals either. 16 goals in 10 games - it's not as though we're scoring barrowloads of goals but conceding loads as well.

When you strip it all away we're 10th in the table with a quarter of the season gone. Obviously too early to be drawing any firm conclusions, so let's see where we are at the halfway stage - but it must be clear to any observer that Van Gaal will have to do better in the next quarter, irrespective of any injury or other problems. That's what a good manager does.
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Mate if you think this team is playing with confidence then go back and have a look at 12-13 season.
 
Diabo_Sam said:
We need around 75 points to achieve 4th place, so by mid season we should be on 35 at least. I like LvG but I'm gonna say it come January with less than 30 and we are too off the 4th place he should be gone.
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I just think to get rid of LVG if we don't get to 4th this season would mean we will be in the wilderness for much longer. We really need to give him two seasons to build a team that he wants. I have no doubt that when the defence is sorted we will be a team to be reckoned with. Sack him....and another manager will come in with his Philosophy..saying it will take time....etc etc etc...
 
togg said:
I just think to get rid of LVG if we don't get to 4th this season would mean we will be in the wilderness for much longer. We really need to give him two seasons to build a team that he wants. I have no doubt that when the defence is sorted we will be a team to be reckoned with. Sack him....and another manager will come in with his Philosophy..saying it will take time....etc etc etc...
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We did it once with Moyes and we can do it again, it's not like we are immune to sacking managers. sacking Moyes at the end of the season was proven to be too late, He should have gone in January to give a new Manager the time to get us to 4th. This Season too with LvG I can't take this shit about philosophy will take this long. Ok we need a philosophy to compete for the title and build for the future but for now we need decent results to get 4th, that's something any manager can sort out in less than 2 weeks with the players we have.
 
Diabo_Sam said:
We did it once with Moyes and we can do it again, it's not like we are immune to sacking managers. sacking Moyes at the end of the season was proven to be too late, He should have gone in January to give a new Manager the time to get us to 4th. This Season too with LvG I can't take this shit about philosophy will take this long. Ok we need a philosophy to compete for the title and build for the future but for now we need decent results to get 4th, that's something any manager can sort out in less than 2 weeks with the players we have.
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And then what? When do we build a team? How long do we go for a quick fix?
A manager needs to be given time to build a team, unlike last year we seem to have a clear direction and as long as it keeps going the right way he should be given at least another season.
No team in the World could cope with the injuries we have, how the hell could they.
 
Getsme said:
And then what? When do we build a team? How long do we go for a quick fix?
A manager needs to be given time to build a team, unlike last year we seem to have a clear direction and as long as it keeps going the right way he should be given at least another season.
No team in the World could cope with the injuries we have, how the hell could they.
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I said I like LvG and I see we improved and we have been unlucky with injuries BUT what about results and qualifying to CL? you suggest that's secondary and can wait? I say no, we can't risk another year without CL, qualifying to CL doesn't dismiss the idea of stability and long term, we are Man Utd ffs and we have the players to do it while adjusting to the new manager philosophy but it should be the right manager and I will be very delighted if LvG is the one. So is 6 wins from the next 9 games too much to ask bearing in mind he has his 3 months?
 
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Diabo_Sam said:
I said I like LvG and I see we improved and we have been unlucky with injuries BUT what about results and qualifying to CL? you suggest that's secondary and can wait? I say no, we can't risk another year without CL, qualifying to CL doesn't dismiss the idea of stability and long term, we are Man Utd ffs and we have the players to do it while adjusting to the new manager philosophy but it should be the right manager and I will be very delighted if LvG is the one. So is 6 wins from the next 9 games too much to ask of bearing in mind he has his 3 months?
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so tell me, if as you say we would need sack LVG in December (to give the new manager a chance to recruit, in his vision, in January) who is that new manager? Who do you think would/could come in then. Who is available? We have a manager who has proved his worth and ability in the past. I can't see anyone else available, or wanting to leave their club (unless they have been shite to) to come in....
 
Whilst the football you play is better to some degree I wouldnt actually say you look a lot more dangerous, not given some of the players to which you now employ. Theres a lot better movement in the team yes, but I still see a lot of sideways and backwards passing, and not a lot of quality in the final third. Goals are the ultimate judgement of how dangerous and attacking a team is and scoring still seems to be an issue.
 
Diabo_Sam said:
I said I like LvG and I see we improved and we have been unlucky with injuries BUT what about results and qualifying to CL? you suggest that's secondary and can wait? I say no, we can't risk another year without CL, qualifying to CL doesn't dismiss the idea of stability and long term, we are Man Utd ffs and we have the players to do it while adjusting to the new manager philosophy but it should be the right manager and I will be very delighted if LvG is the one. So is 6 wins from the next 9 games too much to ask bearing in mind he has his 3 months?
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It’s secondary if it means success in the long term.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Whilst the football you play is better to some degree I wouldnt actually say you look a lot more dangerous, not given some of the players to which you now employ. Theres a lot better movement in the team yes, but I still see a lot of sideways and backwards passing, and not a lot of quality in the final third. Goals are the ultimate judgement of how dangerous and attacking a team is and scoring still seems to be an issue.
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I agree about the lack of quality in the final third, its being overlooked thanks to everyone blaming the defence. The amount of chances our attacking players have missed have had a bigger impact on our results than the injuries have.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Whilst the football you play is better to some degree I wouldnt actually say you look a lot more dangerous, not given some of the players to which you now employ. Theres a lot better movement in the team yes, but I still see a lot of sideways and backwards passing, and not a lot of quality in the final third. Goals are the ultimate judgement of how dangerous and attacking a team is and scoring still seems to be an issue.
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Whilst I agree there is still work to do, the fact that we have progressed and certainly been better attacking than we were last season is enough to allow LVG the time to progress even more. He's a good manager who has already instilled more fight and I can see signs that things are beginning to work. It would be ludicrous to sack him this season if he doesn't get 4th.
 
togg said:
so tell me, if as you say we would need sack LVG in December (to give the new manager a chance to recruit, in his vision, in January) who is that new manager? Who do you think would/could come in then. Who is available? We have a manager who has proved his worth and ability in the past. I can't see anyone else available, or wanting to leave their club (unless they have been shite to) to come in....
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I don't know to be honest, it's like saying shit we are not qualifying to CL again this year but we can't find a decent manager so let's stick to this one maybe next year, it could be good on long term but missing the CL again will screw us big time.
 
Diabo_Sam said:
I don't know to be honest, it's like saying shit we are not qualifying to CL again this year but we can't find a decent manager so let's stick to this one maybe next year, it could be good on long term but missing the CL again will screw us big time.
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well, financially and sponsorship wise, we can acctually afford another season out of the CL. Ok, it's not ideal but it wouldn't be disastrous.
 
togg said:
well, financially and sponsorship wise, we can acctually afford another season out of the CL. Ok, it's not ideal but it wouldn't be disastrous.
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It is disastrous, look a Man Utd manager should qualify to CL irrelevant of what he can achieve in the future otherwise he's not good enough.
 
Getsme said:
I agree about the lack of quality in the final third, its being overlooked thanks to everyone blaming the defence. The amount of chances our attacking players have missed have had a bigger impact on our results than the injuries have.
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Not just missed chances. We're not creating very many clear-cut chances. Although, it's worth remembering that our opinions are distorted by how infrequently we're playing and how tough the opposition. It's over two weeks since we played anyone other than Chelsea or City. Those are games where chances are always scarce and two weeks feels like a fecking lifetime when you're used to supporting a team that plays two games every week.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not just missed chances. We're not creating very many clear-cut chances. Although, it's worth remembering that our opinions are distorted by how infrequently we're playing and how tough the opposition. It's over two weeks since we played anyone other than Chelsea or City. Those are games where chances are always scarce and two weeks feels like a fecking lifetime when you're used to supporting a team that plays two games every week.
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This is killing me, Its only going to get worse given that we are not in Europe/League cup and we have more internationals coming up.
 
ItsEssexRob said:
Whilst the football you play is better to some degree I wouldnt actually say you look a lot more dangerous, not given some of the players to which you now employ. Theres a lot better movement in the team yes, but I still see a lot of sideways and backwards passing, and not a lot of quality in the final third. Goals are the ultimate judgement of how dangerous and attacking a team is and scoring still seems to be an issue.
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Rooney or Falcao need to be starting upfront, if we continue this current system. RvP is woefully out of goalscoring form.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not just missed chances. We're not creating very many clear-cut chances. Although, it's worth remembering that our opinions are distorted by how infrequently we're playing and how tough the opposition. It's over two weeks since we played anyone other than Chelsea or City. Those are games where chances are always scarce and two weeks feels like a fecking lifetime when you're used to supporting a team that plays two games every week.
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Must admit, it has been a mighty strange feeling this season seeing the fixture list and the huge gaps between when we play. To contradict myself a bit, I'm sure it's had a big impact on the team being able to find some sort of consistency. I'm not really surprised that LVG apparently has changed his mind about those arranged matches abroad United have been talking about.
 
togg said:
Must admit, it has been a mighty strange feeling this season seeing the fixture list and the huge gaps between when we play. To contradict myself a bit, I'm sure it's had a big impact on the team being able to find some sort of consistency. I'm not really surprised that LVG apparently has changed his mind about those arranged matches abroad United have been talking about.
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Yeah, I was never convinced that less football would definitely translate into better performances. We've seen it before under Fergie when early cup exits mean less frequent games and we seem to lack momentum and fluency. At the end of the day, slotting a few goals against crap European teams is a confidence boost that can lift the team and help fringe players convince the manager that they deserve a shot. The evolution of the team is painfully slow with only one game a week to try things out.
 
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