Those two teams don't have expectations anywhere near the size of United. Nor were they taken from first to seventh and have a manager a large amount of the players disliked.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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Those two teams don't have expectations anywhere near the size of United. Nor were they taken from first to seventh and have a manager a large amount of the players disliked.
I think the thing is those managers are only changing a style of play. Van Gaal is changing the philosophy. A style of play can be changed with a couple of training sessions but a philosophy takes 3 months.
It's a very disruptive period but it'll be worth it. Unlike with those quick fix managers, we'll not only see the benefits on the football pitch, we'll be much better placed to write academic articles, for example, or engaged in live televised debate.
He fielded three 19 year olds and an 18 year old today in an intense local derby against the champions. Credit to him.
At least you can see what he's trying to do. We're playing like a team this season whereas under Gollum, we looked like 11 disgruntled individuals going through the motions.
And therein lies the red herring. Everyone is saying things aren't so bad because at least we're playing better than last season. Of course we bloody are, it'd be difficult not to wouldn't it? That shouldn't be the yardstick by which we judge Van Gaal's performance.
We should be expecting and getting more from both him and the team.
If he had a full squad to pick from for 3-4 games in a row without all the injuries and suspensions things would turn around pretty quick I feel.
It hasn't been dull, thats for sure.
There will be no fecking about. If we don't get top 4 then he should be sacked. I really like him though so hopefully we start picking up the wins.
Oh Lordy. The LVG philosophy BS really is starting to take hold.
Read the second part....
I am not worried one bit. We are getting better, it's clear to me.
Great post and it still stands after today.
LVG is a manager who reflects on a situation and is prepared to change things which he originally implemented if they aren't working. That shows modesty, not arrogance.
To replaced by which manager that would guarantee top 4?
Oh come one guys. It's still early days. LvG has brought a new philosophy to the club. It will take some time but this new philosophy will eventually embed itself in the players and once that happens, this project will take off!! This is a major project LvG is taking on here rebuilding the team.
Is it a hybrid of the two, a Philosoject?
Yes, we should, and I think we will. I don't think LVG could have anticipated the sheer bloody magnitude of the task in front of him. He's never managed in England before and he's still finding his feet here. The casualty list is mind boggling. The entire defence is in the treatment room and he has been unable to filed the same side two weeks running. It's only November and the way results are going elsewhere, there is no reason to think we won't make fourth but we need a break from injuries and we badly need a defensive midfielder and a centre-half.
I never thought that LVG had a magic wand and that he would turn things around in a couple of months but he's done this thing before in other countries and I think he'll do it again. Many of us knew when Moyes was appointed that he was not the right man and that he was a disaster waiting to happen and we got all kinds of flak for not "doing our job" as Fergie demanded. But I, at least, am prepared to give the current manager a couple of seasons at least because he's getting us back on track and playing the right way. He may have to get rid of a lot of players in the next two windows but once he's had two transfer windows to sort things out, we'll have a much better idea of what he's like.
I'm not worried at all, so long as we finish above Liverpool will do me this season, said that from the start of the season. It'll mean top 6 at least, and be an improvement on last season, anything more is a bonus.
I honestly think we've been unlucky so far. We could've got a point in the end today, maybe more had it not been for the stupid red. We had a good go at them till Smalling went off, gave the "runaway" leaders a good game last week and were unlucky. We're not far off, just lacking a bit of luck.
We'll sign at least a defender in Jan and hopefully some of our injury woes will have subsided a bit by then too.
The football we are playing at least shows a lot of promise, which it certainly didn't last season. I got to the point where I just stopped watching last year, it was dreadful.
I honestly think we've been unlucky so far. We could've got a point in the end today, maybe more had it not been for the stupid red. We had a good go at them till Smalling went off, gave the "runaway" leaders a good game last week and were unlucky. We're not far off, just lacking a bit of luck.
We'll sign at least a defender in Jan and hopefully some of our injury woes will have subsided a bit by then too.
The football we are playing at least shows a lot of promise, which it certainly didn't last season. I got to the point where I just stopped watching last year, it was dreadful.
Injuries, gelling, new manager and down right bad luck have cost us to look worse than we are but the entire league isn't exactly miles ahead, we're 4 points off 4th place.
I've confidence in LVG's United.
I've confidence in LVG's United.
I am hoping he can turn things around quickly and it will be interesting to see if the injuries/suspensions excuse rings true once he has everyone at his disposal. I don't see why everyone thinking the defence is going to be miraculously sorted in January either.
3 wins out of 10 is absolutely woeful.
3 wins out of 10 is absolutely woeful.
Considering that we're 10th, and have worse form than the previous season, I'm actually happy; last season, I didn't even want to watch us.
Thanks. Yeah, he is prepared to make changes. And not only that, he was very quick and decisive with his decisions.
I suppose you could call it that.
There have been some considerable improvements from what i've seen.
The players seem to more settled and are getting more comfortable with Van Gaal's style of play. The team now look to play it short and keep possession, mostly through Blind - who plays the number 6 role in Van Gaal's system.
As opposed to last year, when we seemed to play progessively worse as the season went on, with no real improvement or no real system - I think everyone is willing to be much more patient, even though results might not come immediately.
The players seem to more settled and are getting more comfortable with Van Gaal's style of play. The team now look to play it short and keep possession, mostly through Blind - who plays the number 6 role in Van Gaal's system.
As opposed to last year, when we seemed to play progessively worse as the season went on, with no real improvement or no real system - I think everyone is willing to be much more patient, even though results might not come immediately.
Well I wouldn't call it an excuse. It's a fact. We played with two central midfielders in centerback one of whom is only 19 years old making only his 3rd appearance for the senior team. Not only that, we played with 10 men for more than half the game. And all this against the premier league champions.
We now have Rafael, Evans, Rojo and Jones out injured. Smalling is suspended for the next 3 games, presumably. If Shaw gets injured as well, it's a grand slam of all senior defenders getting injured or suspended.
Two yellows is a one game suspension.
Points obviously don't look good, but the last couple of games have built me with a bit of confidence. I think if we can replicate those type of performances against the 'lesser' teams, then we should be able to put a good run together.
Oh, ok, well that's a relief, then. Even if Shaw gets injured next game, we'll have Smalling back after that. lol.
I still have painful memories of that. From the reading of the team sheet Moyes had picked through to his post match interview, matchday was a kick in the ballsack last year. At least I'm enjoying matchdays again.
At this stage last season - 5 wins, 2 losses, 3 draws - 17 points; 17 goals scored, 13 conceded.
150m summer spending later - 3 wins, 4 draws, 3 losses - 13 points; 16 scored, 14 conceded.
Less goals scored and more conceded with a relatively easier fixture list.
Verdict so far - Poor
150m summer spending later - 3 wins, 4 draws, 3 losses - 13 points; 16 scored, 14 conceded.
Less goals scored and more conceded with a relatively easier fixture list.
Verdict so far - Poor
It's an odd one, i feel were going in the right direction, our performances have improved and we play better football than last year, but the progression isn't as impressive as i was expecting in all honesty, and we just cant seem to pick up any points or grind out results against the worse teams.
Squad seems in good spirits, but as per usual our injury situation seems to be stifling any chance of putting a good run of results together and forming a consistent starting 11.
The most frustrating thing i would pinpoint is that after all the investment this year, we still refused to really go out start building a long term team that van gaal wants. It felt like a complete scatter gun approach in the summer probably due to van gaals world cup involvement.
We got an absolute star in di maria and arguably the top young fullback in the world, but all the other signings dont feel like long term starting 11 "im building a team around these guys" kind of players. like Mourinho has done with the likes of Matic, fabregas, costa, willian zouma etc. a clear spine for the future.
instead our squad is just a jumbled mess of big name players we cant actually fit in a team. and for some reason EVERY player we seem to buy wants to play in that Attacking central midfield role. (mata, di maria, hererra) in addition to the players we already have to fill that role like rooney januzaj (previously kagawa) I just dont see the vision for this squad, and i get the feeling players like Blind and rojo will inevitably become utility players when new toys arrive in future windows.
TLDR- just fecking wish we would spend some of this massive investment on clear defined positions we need to strengthen, a couple of centre backs and a defensive midfielder, possibly even a winger if we dump young next summer.
Squad seems in good spirits, but as per usual our injury situation seems to be stifling any chance of putting a good run of results together and forming a consistent starting 11.
The most frustrating thing i would pinpoint is that after all the investment this year, we still refused to really go out start building a long term team that van gaal wants. It felt like a complete scatter gun approach in the summer probably due to van gaals world cup involvement.
We got an absolute star in di maria and arguably the top young fullback in the world, but all the other signings dont feel like long term starting 11 "im building a team around these guys" kind of players. like Mourinho has done with the likes of Matic, fabregas, costa, willian zouma etc. a clear spine for the future.
instead our squad is just a jumbled mess of big name players we cant actually fit in a team. and for some reason EVERY player we seem to buy wants to play in that Attacking central midfield role. (mata, di maria, hererra) in addition to the players we already have to fill that role like rooney januzaj (previously kagawa) I just dont see the vision for this squad, and i get the feeling players like Blind and rojo will inevitably become utility players when new toys arrive in future windows.
TLDR- just fecking wish we would spend some of this massive investment on clear defined positions we need to strengthen, a couple of centre backs and a defensive midfielder, possibly even a winger if we dump young next summer.
Im happy. It would be nice to have a few more points but we're vastly improved in every other way, and most importantly get better with each passing game.
Our first games we were dire.
Then we splashed the cash and we looked great for the first half but hung on (or not) for our lives after that.
Then we looked great for 60 mins.
Then we looked great for 75 mins.
The last two games we've been the ones pushing for more goals at the end, and our opposition, the best two teams in the league nonetheless, have been the ones hanging on.
My only worry is the defence. I think we have players with the required ability, but none of the seniors seem to have the right mentality. I think LVG will like the fact he can mould the youngsters into his style.
Our first games we were dire.
Then we splashed the cash and we looked great for the first half but hung on (or not) for our lives after that.
Then we looked great for 60 mins.
Then we looked great for 75 mins.
The last two games we've been the ones pushing for more goals at the end, and our opposition, the best two teams in the league nonetheless, have been the ones hanging on.
My only worry is the defence. I think we have players with the required ability, but none of the seniors seem to have the right mentality. I think LVG will like the fact he can mould the youngsters into his style.
One problem is also you have to remember some players and teams up their game in the bigger games. Therefore it wasnt exactly as surprise to see United with their backs against the wall not getting battered by the two top teams. Its the smaller away games you need to make sure you win, the ones that are tough but not very tough, such as Hull, Stoke, Swansea etc.
We create more chances and the defense is a complete shambles with injuries. So there is that.
We're tenth in the league with the Dippers, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton all looking below par. That is not acceptable after the money we've spent.
We're tenth in the league with the Dippers, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton all looking below par. That is not acceptable after the money we've spent.
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Rome wasn't built in a day. The foundations are being laid and we are really close to getting things sorted. Injuries, and a lack of real quality at the back are stalling our progression more than anything although, ironically, we are starting to look more difficult to beat. We are playing far better football under LVG already and anyone arguing otherwise must have forgotten watching Liverpool and City walk through us at OT last season. I'm extremely confident that with further investment in the obvious areas we will win the title under LVG within the span of his current contract.
I think the results don't really reflect LVG, in such a fact that I firmly believe we are a better side than last season, better to watch and we look at lot more hungry (certainly of late). My biggest concern with LVG was the lack of activity in the transfer market for the defence - which seems an odd thing to say given we actually bought 2 defenders. I would wager he put faith in the currenct crop of defenders based on pre season and via Ryan Giggs etc. I'm pretty sure he will be addressing this in January - he has to.
Take out the random Leicester result and you would have to say we have been ok, considering how many new players he has had to integrate into the side.
Thankfully, AFC and LFC and the rest of those we should be competing with for the 3rd/4th place have been just as patchy as us. 4 points behind 4th place after 10 games is more than achievable for us to get into Europe next season.
Our defensive issues could easily be offset by a steady goals from our forward line - RVP has been poor....really poor if you ask me and not suited to this lone man role. A fit Falcao could sort that out.
Overall, i'm not bothered that we are currently 10th as I don't feel it relects this side properly (although it actually does!). Given the state of our football last season, you would have to be a football moron not to see the improvement.
Take out the random Leicester result and you would have to say we have been ok, considering how many new players he has had to integrate into the side.
Thankfully, AFC and LFC and the rest of those we should be competing with for the 3rd/4th place have been just as patchy as us. 4 points behind 4th place after 10 games is more than achievable for us to get into Europe next season.
Our defensive issues could easily be offset by a steady goals from our forward line - RVP has been poor....really poor if you ask me and not suited to this lone man role. A fit Falcao could sort that out.
Overall, i'm not bothered that we are currently 10th as I don't feel it relects this side properly (although it actually does!). Given the state of our football last season, you would have to be a football moron not to see the improvement.
They're all very tough for us, there isn't an away ground where I think we can get the three points relatively easily from.
Exactly
get pep in 2016 when his contract runs out or just chuck money at him and bring him here a year early and then he brings messi with him! (is what some of the folks in here would probably suggest)
Except for thats not very realistic is it - nor is getting klop who seems very happy at dortmund - same with jose and anchelotti and giggs isnt ready.
The fact is that LVG is a proven manager who has always said it will probably take him the first half of the year to get the team functioning as he wants - he has brought some quality players - hopefully with the ability to bring in more next year as the rebuild continues plus at some point we are probably due to get a bit of luck with injuries and have a more settled defence - afterall valencia, carrick, mcnair and shaw is not going to be our long term backline is it.
I would have loved us to get Jose when he was available but that ships sailed - same with Pep - the best manager available this summer was LVG - he is still the best option now.
The priority for this season is CL football and I still see that as achievable
Interesting stats!
Something else to add to the long list of worries I've got right now about where we're going under Van Gaal is the issue of physical fitness. Rooney, Fellaini and Shaw all got cramp yesterday. In a game that didn't even go into extra time. What's that all about? When did you last see an opposition player get cramp against us during normal time?
Just so we're clear, this "long list of worries" is balanced out by a "long list of positives". On balance, the ayes have it and I still think we're moving in the right direction.
Just so we're clear, this "long list of worries" is balanced out by a "long list of positives". On balance, the ayes have it and I still think we're moving in the right direction.
Foundations? Rome? In all fairness with the way some of ye are going on you'd swear LvG walked into a club that was only formed a few years ago.
The players are there to be getting a lot better results than what's being got so far this season and when all's said and done football is all about results not wasting time that isn't there now trying to implement some sort of a philosophy that no one has a clue is going to work at all anyways.
It might be time for LvG and co to start thinking about some other plan, for now anyways and park the philosophy on the side of the road until the players come in or are available to carry it out and go on a winning streak. Let that be by parking buses, hitting teams on counters and grinding out a few one nils or whatever just start totting up the 3pts week in week out for a while. Doing that is what I'd call heading in the right direction now, not playing fancy football for periods in games but still end up losing after.
Four points off a champions league place after lots of injuries, trying to integrate a lot of summer signings.
A win against Everton, a draw against a very good Chelsea side and a 1-0 defeat away to city when down to 10 men for over half the game - thats not too bad - if you had told me we would play with 10 men and have a defence of valencia, carrick, mcnair and shaw I would have expected us to have a lot more than one goal put past us.
I'm not worried yet and - we could do a liverpool of last season and put together an amazing second half of the season so I'm remaining positive
A win against Everton, a draw against a very good Chelsea side and a 1-0 defeat away to city when down to 10 men for over half the game - thats not too bad - if you had told me we would play with 10 men and have a defence of valencia, carrick, mcnair and shaw I would have expected us to have a lot more than one goal put past us.
I'm not worried yet and - we could do a liverpool of last season and put together an amazing second half of the season so I'm remaining positive
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