I expected more from LVG. May not be table topper, but say about 5/7 points more at this stage. Shouldn't be so much behind Arsenal.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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I guess if we use the Bayern example where he had a slow start before things vastly improved, the difference here is he's had more money to spend, but is in a more competitive league and has crazy injury problems with the back four of all places. The foundation of any good side.
It's been up and down but by no means boring. Which in itself is a vast improvement on last season. I remain very confident in LVG.
It's been up and down but by no means boring. Which in itself is a vast improvement on last season. I remain very confident in LVG.
I feel the same.
Has us playing some good football, but ultimately for me, too much emphasis on the philosophy and injuries, and not enough focus on just winning football matches.
Results are not great but we should consider every single thing from end of last season till now and why results are poor.Maybe results from last season in same period are better but back then there was no hope in sight,no light at the end of tunnel,nothing telling us that we go towards some progress/something/anything.
Even with worse results,i want to watch this team more then team from the last season,to see them grow,improve,gel,how they play etc.I still believe in moment when everything clicks and from that moment there is only one way for us - UP.
Lower points,position on the table and yet there is something positive hidden in this whole situation.I am less worried,have more faith in this team and future of this club.
Even with worse results,i want to watch this team more then team from the last season,to see them grow,improve,gel,how they play etc.I still believe in moment when everything clicks and from that moment there is only one way for us - UP.
Lower points,position on the table and yet there is something positive hidden in this whole situation.I am less worried,have more faith in this team and future of this club.
I expected more. But I think he has had to learn about the Premier League just like players do when they come over.
I am very content right now with the direction we are going in. This time last season we were better off points-wise but we could all sense a massive decline under Moyes.
This guy clearly wants more defenders, but you can't rebuild a whole squad in 1 transfer window, it will take 2 or 3.
I am very content right now with the direction we are going in. This time last season we were better off points-wise but we could all sense a massive decline under Moyes.
This guy clearly wants more defenders, but you can't rebuild a whole squad in 1 transfer window, it will take 2 or 3.
A more experienced no.2 would have helped, too late to change now due to the media circus it would create.
I worried having Giggs learning his role as assistant, plus LVG learning his role as Manchester United manager and managing in a new league...add all the new players on to that and it was always going to take time.
It is a work in progress for sure.
I worried having Giggs learning his role as assistant, plus LVG learning his role as Manchester United manager and managing in a new league...add all the new players on to that and it was always going to take time.
It is a work in progress for sure.
The only thing I dont like (other than our points total) Is our lack of creativity or killer instinct. And Im not sure if that is his tactics or not. It seems we get within 30 yards of the goal and have nothing. Shaw was cutting back instead of running into space. Januzaj has been having 5 or 6 too many touches. Mata has been quiet with no variance other than passing wide. Di Maria has been good but poor last two games.
Corners are lacking any creativity, free kicks the same.
It all just seems so average in the final third compared to almost all other teams trying things and attacking at pace in that area. If Southampton can get some of the quality attacking play from their 11 players then LVG should be able to do the same with us.
Injuries have hampered him a fair bit. But by xmas you'd have hoped we would have played at least a few games where we dominate our opposition and look brilliant creatively. Some may argue this was us at the beginning of the season and resulted in a leaky defence, hence why he's pushing this possession football. But to me it seems at the expense of any killer instinct.
Corners are lacking any creativity, free kicks the same.
It all just seems so average in the final third compared to almost all other teams trying things and attacking at pace in that area. If Southampton can get some of the quality attacking play from their 11 players then LVG should be able to do the same with us.
Injuries have hampered him a fair bit. But by xmas you'd have hoped we would have played at least a few games where we dominate our opposition and look brilliant creatively. Some may argue this was us at the beginning of the season and resulted in a leaky defence, hence why he's pushing this possession football. But to me it seems at the expense of any killer instinct.
I was expecting a whole load more points by this stage, so from a results only view, its been pretty poor. However, we do seem to be playing well, even if only in bursts during matches and the style is miles better than anything we saw last year. He hasn't had the best of luck with injuries and with RVP basically being a passenger and Falcao injured / Rooney suspended I guess we've done OK - ish.
We really need to start getting a run together now though - don't want to be saying the same thing at Christmas time.
We really need to start getting a run together now though - don't want to be saying the same thing at Christmas time.
If you look at where we are relative to the people we think we are competing with for 3rd and 4th, then we are not in a bad position. Sure, points could be better, but we appear no worse than our competition. All teams could do better.
Last year we were dropping points through not having any attacking threat and poor play by the players. Now we are in a much better place. As for money spent, it is not as though LVG has had all of his purchases on the park for 10 games. Some have only played 4 or 5 games.
The first 3 games did significant damage, but then we could look at Everton, Liverpool and Spurs and say exactly the same. Arsenal are not exactly on fire, either.
A great point that so few people seem to mention - which is odd considering the scrutiny that Phelan and then Moyes' lot got.
I completely agree with you.
Interesting point.
But there are two sides about Giggs being the assistant manager. Of course he isn't the most experienced, but he knows the club and players inside out and I'm sure that this factor is being more beneficial for the team, than the inexperience he has in that position. Working with human beings always includes an interpersonal aspect that shouldn't be underrestimated. It makes it a lot easier for a coach to know how to approach individuals and Giggs certainly accelerates that process. Also, who says that Giggs is the number 2 in that set up? Albert Stuivenberg has been working with van Gaal for years now and has the exact same position as Giggs and surely has a deeper relationship with him. The media is focusing Ryan a lot, which is understandable. He is a face the public knows, a legend and somekind of a Hollywood story to follow in the futre. LvG is meticulous in every aspect and also very independent in his decisions. He wouldn't have taken Giggs on board if he wasn't conviced that he could offer something to the coaching team.
Giggs is work in progress for sure, but I don't think he is hampering the process of LvG adapting to United and the league at all.
Ultimately, Van Gaaal chose to take Giggs on as his number 2, so can take the rough with the smooth over that decision. Nobody used Moyes' choice in assistant manager as some sort of mitigating factor for the team under-performing. Responsibility for events on the pitch lay 100% with the manager, as it always should do.
Not sure how you can just state that as fact. Given that LVG has a vast wealth of experience of football management, but none of MUFC, somebody with those attributes the other way round as assistant isn't such a crazy idea. At the end of the day, we've got no way of judging whether a different no2 would see us doing better or worse.
I read in the papers and watch all the football shows on TV and they are all bleating on about how LVG's start has been worse than Moyes. Because lets face it, the press loved Moyes and he loved the press. This is bull IMO. OK we had more points this time last season but we played our best football early on in the season with Moyes and got worse and worse and worse, playing dire, boring football as the season progressed shredding the squad's confidence. Under LVG we are clearly improving. We drew with Chelsea and were unlucky not to take something out of the game away against City despite Chris Smalling being an utter pillock!
Our attack looks good, although a player like Reus in the Summer would bring the fluidity and speed to another level. Our midfield looks a million times better than it did last year with maybe one big name recruit being all that is necessary in the Summer to replace an ageing Carrick. Obviously we need defensive reinforcements (probably 2 cb's and a rightback to challenge Rafa) brought in but who would you take from the 'big' defensive players who were available in the Summer? Mangala looks shaky, Benatia was always going to go to Bayern. Who else was available?? Hummels is the go-to name but he has had a poor start to the season in the Bundesliga.
As an aside, I do rate Jones but I think Smalling has had his chances now. I would say we need 4 CB's to choose from. Jones, Rojo and 2 more supplemented by Youth team players. Valencia should never pull on the jersey again. I thought he was getting skinned for pace at the weekend and that was all he ever really had in his locker.
Our attack looks good, although a player like Reus in the Summer would bring the fluidity and speed to another level. Our midfield looks a million times better than it did last year with maybe one big name recruit being all that is necessary in the Summer to replace an ageing Carrick. Obviously we need defensive reinforcements (probably 2 cb's and a rightback to challenge Rafa) brought in but who would you take from the 'big' defensive players who were available in the Summer? Mangala looks shaky, Benatia was always going to go to Bayern. Who else was available?? Hummels is the go-to name but he has had a poor start to the season in the Bundesliga.
As an aside, I do rate Jones but I think Smalling has had his chances now. I would say we need 4 CB's to choose from. Jones, Rojo and 2 more supplemented by Youth team players. Valencia should never pull on the jersey again. I thought he was getting skinned for pace at the weekend and that was all he ever really had in his locker.
He probably won't get that at this rate though.
Utter tosh!
There was a universal opinion that one of Moyes' absolute worst decisions was removing Phelan and Rene as assistants and bringing in the Everton mob.
*sigh* I'm not sure you understand what mitigating means.
To put it more simply. Moyes shouldered 100% of the blame for whatever contribution his number 2 made to our poor results. And rightly so.
The same should apply to Van Gaal and Giggs.
That and he's had nothing but praise for Giggs.
He will. The Glazers and Woodward would become the laughing stock of football if they sacked Van Gaal without giving him at least a couple more transfer windows. If not for the God-awful luck we've had with defenders getting crocked, we'd be in a better position now. Our treatment room must resemble a WWI casualty clearing station. I think that only Newcastle has a greater number of players out injured.
Louis Van Gaal:
Ajax
AZ
Bayern Munich
Netherlands
I can't say that the result was anything but very very poor. But considering the above, I'm sure that LvG knows what he's doing, winning all the above is not a fluke. He might not be the next SAF but on the law of probability, he'll get us to the top 4.
I was judging him with the same standard I was judging Moyes last year, that result maybe bad, but I will need to see something, to see where we are going, and it seems that we are going in the right direction this time with changes being made to address all the issues albeit slowly.
And trophies gives managers some time, there are a reason why Mourinho didn't get the sack for finishing 3rd with Chelsea last year (any other managers apart from Mou and Pep would have probably got the sack) because we know what he has proven to be capable of in the past.
Ajax
- Eredivisie: 1993–94, 1994–95, 1995–96
- KNVB Cup: 1992–93
- Johan Cruijff Shield: 1993, 1994, 1995
- UEFA Champions League: 1994–95; Runner-up 1995–96
- UEFA Cup: 1991–92
- UEFA Super Cup: 1995
- Intercontinental Cup: 1995
AZ
Bayern Munich
- Bundesliga: 2009–10
- DFB-Pokal: 2009–10
- DFB-Supercup: 2010
- UEFA Champions League runner-up: 2009–10
Netherlands
- FIFA World Cup third place: 2014
- World Soccer Manager of the Year: 1995[78]
- Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 1995[79]
- Rinus Michels Award: 2007, 2009[80]
- Dutch Sports Coach of the Year: 2009[81]
- Die Sprachwahrer des Jahres (3rd place): 2009[82]
- German Football Manager of the Year: 2010[83]
- Knight of the Order of Orange-Nassau: 1997[84]
I can't say that the result was anything but very very poor. But considering the above, I'm sure that LvG knows what he's doing, winning all the above is not a fluke. He might not be the next SAF but on the law of probability, he'll get us to the top 4.
I was judging him with the same standard I was judging Moyes last year, that result maybe bad, but I will need to see something, to see where we are going, and it seems that we are going in the right direction this time with changes being made to address all the issues albeit slowly.
And trophies gives managers some time, there are a reason why Mourinho didn't get the sack for finishing 3rd with Chelsea last year (any other managers apart from Mou and Pep would have probably got the sack) because we know what he has proven to be capable of in the past.
When people say a manager has to learn about the premier league, what does it mean? The only thing LVG has to learn is how to knit a defence together/how to prioritize building from the back, this has always been a weak point of his. I didn't expect the results to be this bad, I can't get over that Leicester game for example, and that game against West Brom. At this point, we should just pick McNair and Carrick as the CB pairing and go from there. It's very important that in January he has to go all out for an experienced defender like Garay or Godin. And somehow, we have to start winning games because that's what it boils down to ultimately, I wont even mind doing it the ugly way, at least 3 wins in a row from here and we are good again, he just has to find that winning formula, otherwise, if we continue in this form, players might start having doubts and that's when you start to lose them.
I wasn't convinced until I saw that he's a Knight of the Order of Orange-Nassau.
He had me at Die Sprachwahrer des Jahres (3rd place)
Dunno, but perhaps a quick phone call to Koeman might be an idea!
What has Koeman learnt about the PL though? I hear people say that all the time, but to me it's just another meaningless cliche. Guardiola won't need to learn anything about the PL if he brought his Bayern Munich team over. They'll outclass most PL teams.
I'm still waiting on January to come to make a decent assessment. Can't make a proper one until the season is over. That start is certainly a poor one.
I didn't expect more really because I thought people were overrating him a bit. It's one thing to look at one's career and another to see that the man is at an age where most people are about to retire, having won very little in the past 10 years.
I do expect him to qualify for the CL, preferably via 3rd place, and I want to see how he does there. I also think he will.
I didn't expect more really because I thought people were overrating him a bit. It's one thing to look at one's career and another to see that the man is at an age where most people are about to retire, having won very little in the past 10 years.
I do expect him to qualify for the CL, preferably via 3rd place, and I want to see how he does there. I also think he will.
I was saying it in agreement with you.
As in 'clearly Koeman didn't have any trouble settling right in'.
I know
. I was just giving an example why I think its a pointless thing to say, it's crazy the amount of people that say a manager needs to learn about the PL, like PL football is from another planet.Liverpool and City games were towards the end of the season when all hope had been lost and the season was a complete write off. It's not quite the same as comparing it to games at the start of a fresh season with over 100m worth of talent brought in.
Are we pretending that Leicester didn't do the exact same thing significantly better teams in Liverpool and City did to you?
I know
I guess 'adjust' is probably a better word to use, and possibly what people mean.
Van Gaal is a manager in his 60s who's never worked in the PL before, and who's just spent years managing at international level and has come straight from a World Cup semi final - it's understandable that the speed and more chaotic nature of the Prem would take him a few months to ADJUST to.
That said, I really view our season as starting from now. Van Gaal's proven that he can match Chelsea and City (more or less) and has already experienced the PL 'banana skins' that were the Leicester, Swansea games and we should now be judging him as we'd judge any other manager.
Even though the performances to me are better with worse results, I like the fact that LVG isn't sitting on that.
Though I do wonder what the f it will take for him to get off the bench and at least have a go at the 4th official and at least try work to get some decisions our way. Not that that we lost due to the ref yesterday (could have been worse in fact) but, like when we got yellows early but, City were getting away with the same types of fouls, LVG said nothing.
Also, might be nice for him to encourage the players a bit from the sideline - not that we've not fought hard but, it can only help to give us a little more if they see him having a go.
Though I do wonder what the f it will take for him to get off the bench and at least have a go at the 4th official and at least try work to get some decisions our way. Not that that we lost due to the ref yesterday (could have been worse in fact) but, like when we got yellows early but, City were getting away with the same types of fouls, LVG said nothing.
Also, might be nice for him to encourage the players a bit from the sideline - not that we've not fought hard but, it can only help to give us a little more if they see him having a go.
That's the dutch butlins "bonny baby competition" . Raymond van barnaveld won it .
Must be a loyalist, I fear for the catholic players at the Club.
Players are playing well so it's just a matter of time before the points come along. We'll be fine.
IMO the honeymoon period is now over. 3 wins from 10 is extremely poor, but we cut him some slack because he talks a good game and has a strong resumé. For as I'm concerned, that credit has now been used up.
We play some good football in spells sure, but we spent a lot of money on a lot of quality and it is the minimum we should have expected for that outlay. Good results and points on the board need to happen now, otherwise Van Gaal is going to find himself under some serious pressure come Christmas, and rightly so. You don't get three years at a big club anymore. If he doesn't finish top four, he needs to be replaced.
We play some good football in spells sure, but we spent a lot of money on a lot of quality and it is the minimum we should have expected for that outlay. Good results and points on the board need to happen now, otherwise Van Gaal is going to find himself under some serious pressure come Christmas, and rightly so. You don't get three years at a big club anymore. If he doesn't finish top four, he needs to be replaced.
Would help if someone could work out why we get so many injuries. That's our main issue.
I'm not interested in the excuses because I get a strange nostalgic feeling from last year. Like most I expected more at this point but that's just the way football goes sometimes and until we reach the new year I will not make any conclusions on LVG.
Is this as exciting as it sounds?
I expected him to buy better players in the first place. Apparently they weren't available, buying Blind and Rojo is a good example. But there is still no excuse. You can't outplay City with Blind and Fellaini in midfield, even if you have RVP, Di Maria, Rooney and Adnan in your squad too. Chris Smalling tried to replace both Vidic and Ferdinand and completely lost it, because Shaw, Rojo and Valencia aren't leaders or experienced enough at grinding out results in top matches. Herrera has looked good, but at the moment I doubt he is going to be one of the best midfielders on the planet, while basically all the top teams do have some of the best midfielders in the world.
We haven't spent enough money. Not that I like spending so much, and preferably we scout players like Adnan and buy them when they're 16, or make a Vidic/Evra deal, or buy Strootman instead of Fellaini. But City have probably spent 200+ million on defensive midfielders alone the last five years. Yaya was a cdm when he came from Barca, and even without him they've had De Jong, Milner, Barry, Javi Garcia, Fernandinho, Jack Rodwell and I'm probably foretting some. It's ridiculous, like Chelsea they've spent billions on transfer fees and salaries the last years. If you want to compete with that on a structural basis, my guess is you need to spend at least 90% of what they spend, sad as that might be.
That's the money side, then there is the current squad. If you want to beat City or Chelsea for the title and decide to have Jones, Evans and Smalling as your CB's, buying Luke Shaw is strange. Talented as he is, he was also insanely expensive, and again if you're trying to be one of the best teams in the league and have the centre backs we do, you'd need Paulo Maldini himself on left back and even that would probably not be enough. Buying Shaw for the future might be a decent idea, but Van Gaal - and Woodward and the scouts and the owners of this club for that matter - seriously should get their act together and look at Chelsea or City and make sure we have a squad that has at least the same amount of quality. Easier said than done obviously, but I still blame Van Gaal for not coming up with a better solution than to try and make it work for at least half a season with a very unbalanced squad.
Don't really see what Van Gaal has to do with us having 5 points more or 5 points less at this time specifically, aside from the transfers. In terms of how he managed our squad I feel there are way more positives than negatives. Injuries are killing us and because of them and because of not buying better players in the summer we've lacked quality. But with a fully fit squad, we can put in a real good streak of matches. That sounds logical, the question at this point however is, can our squad retain near full fitness before it's too late.
Next year will be interesting though, you'd expect Arsenal and perhaps Tottenham or Liverpool to buy extra quality, Chelsea and City will be very strong. Hopefully Dortmund finishes outside the top 4 in Germany, so we have a chance Hummels, Reus, and perhaps we should consider Subotic and Gundogan. Van Gaal can coach all he wants, but if Arsenal enter the league next year with more quality/better quality players in all positions, we're obviously bound to fall below them. I just hope we don't get stubborn and try to make it work with limited means and the same transfer strategy as last summer.
We haven't spent enough money. Not that I like spending so much, and preferably we scout players like Adnan and buy them when they're 16, or make a Vidic/Evra deal, or buy Strootman instead of Fellaini. But City have probably spent 200+ million on defensive midfielders alone the last five years. Yaya was a cdm when he came from Barca, and even without him they've had De Jong, Milner, Barry, Javi Garcia, Fernandinho, Jack Rodwell and I'm probably foretting some. It's ridiculous, like Chelsea they've spent billions on transfer fees and salaries the last years. If you want to compete with that on a structural basis, my guess is you need to spend at least 90% of what they spend, sad as that might be.
That's the money side, then there is the current squad. If you want to beat City or Chelsea for the title and decide to have Jones, Evans and Smalling as your CB's, buying Luke Shaw is strange. Talented as he is, he was also insanely expensive, and again if you're trying to be one of the best teams in the league and have the centre backs we do, you'd need Paulo Maldini himself on left back and even that would probably not be enough. Buying Shaw for the future might be a decent idea, but Van Gaal - and Woodward and the scouts and the owners of this club for that matter - seriously should get their act together and look at Chelsea or City and make sure we have a squad that has at least the same amount of quality. Easier said than done obviously, but I still blame Van Gaal for not coming up with a better solution than to try and make it work for at least half a season with a very unbalanced squad.
Don't really see what Van Gaal has to do with us having 5 points more or 5 points less at this time specifically, aside from the transfers. In terms of how he managed our squad I feel there are way more positives than negatives. Injuries are killing us and because of them and because of not buying better players in the summer we've lacked quality. But with a fully fit squad, we can put in a real good streak of matches. That sounds logical, the question at this point however is, can our squad retain near full fitness before it's too late.
Next year will be interesting though, you'd expect Arsenal and perhaps Tottenham or Liverpool to buy extra quality, Chelsea and City will be very strong. Hopefully Dortmund finishes outside the top 4 in Germany, so we have a chance Hummels, Reus, and perhaps we should consider Subotic and Gundogan. Van Gaal can coach all he wants, but if Arsenal enter the league next year with more quality/better quality players in all positions, we're obviously bound to fall below them. I just hope we don't get stubborn and try to make it work with limited means and the same transfer strategy as last summer.
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