I wouldn't count on it. He's still a very immature player, and not as talented as he's assumed to be. He seems to me like the kind of player that needs a another club before he reaches top level, if he reaches top level at all.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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Agree here. A lot of the complaints about the system and the personnel are being slowly but surely fixed. We just need to add a little bit more risk-taking to the gameplan. We've only played what, 30 matches with a very new team and new system? It will gel. Hopefully someone like Januzaj or di Maria can catch fire, that will inspire the rest.
Yeah that's the one thing that we can hope happens this season - an attacking player hitting very good form. Could even be Young for all I care.
Funny you should say that, I called him a hysterical schoolgirl a week or two back
Theres a lot of them about mate
I've seen every match Memphis has played including his youth PSV days (all the broadcasted youth matches, that is). He's improving at a massive rate, he's very well built for a 21 year old. He's a bit raw, but he's the complete packet for a winger/forward with no real weaknesses. PSV already rejected an offer from Tottenham last summer for him, and Memphis has stated he's not leaving for a midtable club. PSV play CL next season so he has no reason to either, but PSV confirmed he's leaving as he's too good for the Eredivisie.
He's not immature at all, he used to have personal problems yeah. But if you followed him, he's left most of these behind him last year. This year he's even more professional and a real team player. He's cut off all contact with people he doesn't trust or are a bad influence on him. He's fully dedicated to football: he's the first to come into the club and he leaves last because he's practising his freekicks.
Louis van Gaal, Phillip Cocu, Ronald Koeman, Guus Hiddink, Dick Advocaat are just some examples of trainers who praised him highly. I rather take their advice, but you can have your opinion. If you were to bet on a player coming in though, I suggest Memphis
Disagree, he seems to know how he wants us to play, which is clear from what he says.
The formation, line up etc is what he seems to be experimenting with.
However its clear he understands whats missing from the team to get to how he wants us to play.
Hes already said about defenders, a midfielder to let the attackers go and do their thing, and more pace in attack.
With regards to style of football, its obvious he wants the team to control the game, but controlling posession and changing the tempo of the football to suit.
His execution hasn't been great this season, but like I said he seems to have some direction he wants to take the team.
Funny you should say that
There was no need to close that poll, it was actually a unique question that hadn't been asked before and was misunderstood by people not willing, bothered or able to read properly.
Not sure where the insinuation of youth or gender comes from, beyond your own mega-red grandiose. I'm quite possibly older than you and have been a fan of the club longer than you (since '86). Not that that's any kind of achievement on my part. Just pointing out that your rudeness and ignorance is uncalled for - I've done nothing to offend you - and if me calling into question the direction (or lack thereof) of Louis Van Gaal bothers you then just ignore me. That's how forum debate works.
Indifferent form under Fergie in the mid 00's is not comparable at all to an elderly manager floundering in a league he's never played in before and looks unsuited to.
My last line was this...
And I stand by it 100%.
I was no fan of Moyes, and indeed I was excited about Van Gaal's appointment, but if Moyes had enjoyed this investment and then delivered the same season Van Gaal has, he would be treated much more harshly - and as the season has gone on, this is something that bothers me.
I'm determined to treat each manager fairly and equally, and in all honesty Van Gaal appears somewhat lost to me.
And as I said, there's nothing he's done thus far that is really worthy of much note at all.
For all his talk of philosophy he actually seems the most unsure of his own approach of any manager making a top 4 push. Our formation, line up and style of football flutters all over the place and has no anchor to it.
I think he's unsuited to the league and we're in danger of over committing and over-investing to a manager who isn't right for us.
If you disagree with me, try actually taking on the meat of a post and offering a counter-view rather than just resorting to glorified cyber bullying. Give me something to actually think about from a footballing standpoint that doesn't just involve reeling off a list of excuses for Van Gaal's performance thus far.
No one could accuse him of being unwilling to change. A little slow or stubborn, yes, and probably too risk averse a number of times but he has made the changes needed and they tend to stick. 352 has gone, Herrera seems to be starting regularly, Rooney's not a holding midfielder, Carrick and Blind are no longer CBs, di Maria stopped playing as striker, Januzaj back in the fold. Hopefully using Fellaini Plan B so much goes next.
With those changes, IMO, we've seen more flashes of "good" play in the last few matches than that dire run in January. Some parts are settling better than others - we've conceded 11 goals in 14 matches since Dec 1, joint best in the league - but I think we'll get there over the next few weeks and have a clearer view of how this team can and will play.
Why do we still not press under Lvg? Watching Liverpool or Atletico Madrid press high up the pitch and really torment teams with it, it seems like such an effective tactic to hurt the other team's game. We no longer have the excuse of not having the players either. Two of the midfielders we've signed should be brillaint at it. Herrera played for Atletic under Bielsa where they pressed like madmen, and Di Maria was basically Madrid's one man pressing army.
You should include yourself within that group, considering every post of yours is usually moaning about moaners.
We did it a little at the start of the season, scored a few goals with Herrera and Di maria pressing teams from the midfield and winning the ball back high up the pitch.
However if your midfield in unbalanced (LVG is still looking for THAT midfielder) pressing will kill you. You will leave yourself exposed if the pressing is not done correctly, or you are too easily bullied in midfield.
I think we'll see some pressing next season, since we started with it earlier this season.
Completely agree, pressing from the front has been literally non-existent with RvP and Falcao meandering around up top all season.
Particularly odd given Rooney, Di Maria, Fellaini, Young are all capable of pressing high and forcing errors.
I'm excited to see what happens in these last matches, I think he needs somebody to do a Costa, Aguero or Kane, by that I mean a player that can go on a goal scoring run and I think it's most likely to be Rooney, we know when he scores he can go on a run where he pops up with goals consistently.
I'm happy for him to play 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 which is basically Rooney off another striker with wingers but I hope he is also considering the possibility of Mata behind Rooney.
That said he praised Falcao in the last match so he might stick with him, I have no problem with Falcao, he has never been that good outside of the box, he is dangerous in it however but to bring that quality out of him we need to start creating more chances for him and he needs to find his confidence, that effortless flow so he just gets into those areas where a striker is and the balls comes to him.
I'm happy for him to play 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 which is basically Rooney off another striker with wingers but I hope he is also considering the possibility of Mata behind Rooney.
That said he praised Falcao in the last match so he might stick with him, I have no problem with Falcao, he has never been that good outside of the box, he is dangerous in it however but to bring that quality out of him we need to start creating more chances for him and he needs to find his confidence, that effortless flow so he just gets into those areas where a striker is and the balls comes to him.
Thats complete bollocks but whatever
Pressing every single game doesn't necessarily guarantee success. It is a tactic deployed that can be useful against certain opponents - let alone being very tiring week in, week out. LVG had the team press against Chelsea and it worked very well. Then again there have been other games where we pressed too much and it cost us (see Leicester away). It's also not an ideal tactic when there are balance issues in midfield, and like you said, having two lumbering strikers up front in RVP and Falcao.
I'd love for us to be an energetic team that can press, but we don't have the player personnel to be a great pressing team at the moment. Bringing in a box-to-box midfielder and moving to a striker(s) that has the pace to get at a defense will certainly make it a more plausible tactic to use in the future, I think.
Who would you say liverpool have that gives them such balance to do it? Henderson is good but he's not quite the kind of midfielder everyone talks about when they talk about this. So shouldnt liverpool also lack the balance to make this happen? Or is their manager simply able to do it right?
If you don't trust your defence / defensive midfield, you dare not press.
With the state of our defense this season and the lack of balance defensively in midfield, playing a pressing style would simply be suicidal.
There team balance is alot better. It depends where you're pressing from and thats exactly why Ballo struggles in the team.
When we pressed earlier in the season, we did a lot of it from midfield and left the defence exposed.
Since our Strikers are immobile, the midfielders are what we use to press, so that left us unbalanced, if the opposition breaks the line of press. They then face Blind and a shakey defence.
But that will stretch our alignment further, exposing the midfield and defense. To effectively press with attacking players, you need a solid base that can withstand a counter-attack if the opposition defenders decide to punt it long. This is where a proponent of gegenpress like Klopp has suffered this season. In the absence of Bender who drops deeper and continued solidity at the back like they had in Hummels + Subotic from 2011-2013, they have become increasingly vulnerable defensively.
By not choosing to press, we can condense the distance between our attacking players and defense, thereby limiting vacant space and making us hard to beat by keeping the opposition players in front of us. Aggressive pressing without adequate cover and organisation is counterproductive.
Basically this, although said far more eloquently than I could express.
I'm not saying he's lazy or lacks dedication, I'm saying he's immature. He's not consistent, he's already in his second spell this season he's not playing well, after beeing hyped. It's not a bad kid, he wants to be a teamplayer, but doesn't know how yet. Also the rest of his decision making is quite poor, still knows only one way of shooting for example. Of course he's allowed to be a self centered player because it comes with his age and because of his talent it's not punished. But it means he still has to develop.
They praised his talent, but Hiddink didn't pick him because he was not ready yet, and Van Gaal picked him but didn't play him much, and he more quiet games than good games. If he suddenly progresses very quickly he might be too good for the eredivisie at the end of the season, but that certainly doesn't mean he's good enough for Man Utd.Louis van Gaal, Phillip Cocu, Ronald Koeman, Guus Hiddink, Dick Advocaat are just some examples of trainers who praised him highly. I rather take their advice, but you can have your opinion. If you were to bet on a player coming in though, I suggest Memphis
It depends on the execution, though. Liverpool's defense was shit last season but their pressing and obivously their overall quality with the ball made up for it. Often, pressing can hide your other flaws, but yes, if not implemented well it can lead to big issues.
Again, I don't see why we should have all these issue in midfield either. The manager gas to get more form his players. Blind basically sits infront of the back four. That's adequate cover. Herrera isn't Rvn waiting to pounce on goalscoring chances either. Fellaini is decent enough as cover in midfield too.
As bad as Liverpool have been we're only 2 points ahead, very disappointing.
They're actually the in form team in the league this year...
Liverpool started horribly, but Rodgers has done a good job of steadying the ship and has them playing well again. It's not so much that United has been poor, it's just that we've essentially been on the same level of performance the entire season - nothing great, but also not horrible.
Yup, Rodgers' Liverpool teams tend to pick up serious form after the new year. It's a very consistent trend right from his first season where they finished out strongly after having poor first half. Last season they had only 1 loss and 3 draws from the final 19 games with 48 points. Extrapolating that for a whole season would give them 96 points. This season again, they have dropped just 4 point since the start of the new year and just 6 since the 0-3 defeat at Old Trafford.
Meanwhile we have dropped 16 points since that 3-0 win and have let a massive lead slip. They do have the advantage of continuity in the managerial setup though. Maybe next season, once Van Gaal is fully acclimatized to the team and reinforces the squad further, we'll get better as the season progresses.
Since I've been a fan since 1963 I think I may be a little older than you.
The question has been asked before, as pointed out by many posters on that thread
Questioning people's ability to being able to read properly seems quite rude
If you have been a fan since 1986 then presumably you would have been calling for Ferguson's head in the late 80s or at least doubting his ability.
Moyes should never have been appointed and was an error on the club's part, as was Frank O'Farrell back in the 70s.
Obviously LVG will find the PL different to other leagues and will need time to adapt as will a lot of our signings like ADM Falcao etc, some adapt quicker than others for various reasons.
LVG has managed in other leagues and adapted to them.
If we don't make top 4, which I believe we will, then changing the manager again will not assist the club in any way. Back to square one.
Whatever happens between now and the end of the season, I believe next season will see a more fluid and exciting United, being right up there challenging again.
Always dreaded the day when SAF retired and knew it would be difficult, but it won't be as catastrophic as when Sir Matt retired. Just a little time is needed but patience is very thin on the ground in here
We've been all around the place, we started dreadful, if that had continued LVG would be gone already.
Then we went 352 and that was actually our best run of the season, I keep reading anyway so I assume it's points wise.
Since then we've been fiddling with formations and lineups as if it's the beginning of the season again. There has been no progress on the pitch, just differing formations and opponents that bring mixed results.
I expected to see noticeable improvement by this point, I'm definitely disappointed.
Yes, but they were dreadful to begin with and had a lot of points to catch up. We've made that easy by dropping points every other game. we've done nothing with the space we created between us and them, just playing with formations and lineups without any noticeable pattern or improvement.
Saw this on ESPN re: Manchester City
and couldn't help but think how much that stability has helped despite the managerial changes. Aguero and Silva and Yaya all know each other very well after that long together, their play is instinctive at this point. We lost a lot of that with all our changes over the last few seasons. We'll start to see more consistent performances out of our players over time. What have we played this season, 30 matches together? Give it time, it will improve.
Agreed, Liverpool pressed fine with crap CBs, Swansea under Rodgers pressed plenty of teams into submission without top players.
I genuinely think he is worried about leaving our defence wide open. He seems to have little faith in our defenders and we lack pace across the attack, so pressing high up the pitch could be suicidal. Possibly...
You need all your players to press at once. Otherwise it's pointless, as the other team will knock it round and run the legs off everyone who is pressing. The lack of mobility from RvP and/or Falcao means that's a non-starter.
Tottenham, with a new manager, have played 45 competitive matches this season. Liverpool, with all their new players, have played in 44 competitive matches.
Southampton, with both, have 34 matches.
United, with both, have played 32 matches.
Without Europe this year, we're behind the learning curve.
Southampton, with both, have 34 matches.
United, with both, have played 32 matches.
Without Europe this year, we're behind the learning curve.
That's the thing who really hurt, we lost key players everywhere, and it was the case last season too, the decline or absence of Evra, Vidic, Ferdinand, Valencia, Van Persie, Giggs and Scholes was too much.
You can't lose all these players and don't feel it.
But even if we put aside the disparity in quality and consider that organisation can overcome some of those personnel flaws, when Liverpool's front three pressed, the back four receded into a linear alignment with Gerrard moving between the center backs, and Henderson into a deeper role simultaneously or even a double pivot with Leiva and Gerrard. That freed up the space for the front 3 and Countinho to drift into wider areas, stretch the defense and systematically press soft zones.
With United, we have employed iterations with Blind or Carrick (who can perform the Gerrard role quite well) but they're alongside more attacking players and Louis doesn't doesn't have the faith in say Rooney or Herrera to play that high octane, defensively above average Henderson role which is paramount to the success of that system. This is why Van Gaal harps about balance and has reportedly prioritized the signing of a traditional box to box midfielder like maybe Strootman - someone who can defend proficiently to free up zones where you can pressure the opposition.
Another thing to consider is that when a team employs genenpress, it's only effective in the attacking sense if you have the fluidity and pace in attack, especially the wider areas to exploit the space created. Liverpool's form was stylistically effective because they had Sturridge, Sterling and Suarez who are all rapid and interchangable, and can all slice up a defense in a couple of moves to make use of that opportunity. We have 2 fairly static forwards (unlike say Lewandowski who could handle a heavy workload up front and freed up Reus, Gotze, Kuba) while our most dynamic striker had played a bulk of the season in midfield.
This lack of balance and penetration through wider areas has to be addressed before we can contemplate pressing regularly. We're lacking that Seedorf and Davids kind of player which Van Gaal had at Ajax which allowed Litmanen, Kluivert, Kanu or Overmars to press further forward.
He's experimenting, is what he's doing. I'm not saying he comes on here and has a look what we all want week in, week out, but of course he takes our wishes into consideration just as any other manager would. You say it's the way to go but have we actually been any better with it? Because I don't think we have. Few positives here and there but ultimately, as you say, it's a results business and those have stayed pretty consistent despite any chances he's been making.
On that last point, you've admitted yourself that fans want good results, so I'm not quite sure what your problem is. Yes, he's shown no evidence that he can take us to the very top thus far, but that's not been his objective. He's been aiming to get us back into the top 4 and that is what he's doing successfully as of now, so surely that means he's showing signs that he's capable of completing what's required, does it not? If you want to put a pessimistic twist to that then that's up to you, but based on yor argument I can't see how you'd be worried at all about him right now. That goes for the signings as well, he's bought good players that we're happy with and that are capable of doing the job required, so even if he does or doesn't fail to get back to the top, I'm pretty sure he'll recruit wisely next window and he'll leave the squad in good condition for whoever takes over the reigns.
Yes, we'd need some changes, no Van Persie, no Mata, no Falcao, maybe no Carrick. But I think it's a good way to play if you can manage it.
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