Wow... What's actually wrong with what he said. Last year Chelsea had Fernando Torres and Da both proven capable of 15-20 goals but in reality we all know they needed better. Having watched us this season we too should know are strikers aren't once what they was. Nothing wrong with that RVP is getting on, Falcao just hasn't worked.. Could be the injury could be the prem either way he looks timid and slow. Yes we have Rooney but like SAF before him he just knows he's not a World class 'striker'.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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The solution to that was to play our best striker, according to him, in the midfield and a player whose major strength so far in his career has been creating as a striker? While the midfielders we spent nearly 60m on sat on the bench.
I don't think I am out of line when I say that for a celebrated manager and football ***********, LVG has not been able to determine the strength of weakeness of our squad. It has been a process of trial and error rather than a philosophical approach.
We are entering Moyes territory with shifting the blame on the players now. Reminds of "we need 5 or 6 world class players before we can compete" days.
This is not one isolated incident comment. The earlier arrogance and haughtiness has slowly given way to current petulant attitude.
It is a criticism because what he is saying is that he is forced to play Rooney in midfield because other midfielders are not good enough.
The problem is that he doesn't say much of significance. He tries to convolute things and then hide behind his poor English.
Fit my narrative?
Shit football is the evident on the pitch every week, sometime twice, it's not my narrative.Ehhh?
I thought the consensus was that we could do with another striker? Heck, half of us wouldn't mind van Persie and Falcao both going.
What am I missing here?
I thought the consensus was that we could do with another striker? Heck, half of us wouldn't mind van Persie and Falcao both going.
What am I missing here?
Think LVG is just giving our current strikers an ear bashing. And it's hard to argue against these figures ,no matter the formation.
Robin van Persie
10
Wayne Rooney
8
Juan Mata
5
Radamel Falcao
4
Robin van Persie
10
Wayne Rooney
8
Juan Mata
5
Radamel Falcao
4
So you're questioning the wisdom of both Van Gaal and Ferguson?
He is played out of position, because he must lead the goal statistics. The team probably would score more with him in his best position.
His career isn't about beeing topscorer but about winning matches, cups and titles. It doesn't matter who scores the goals, for sure the team needs more goals than the 20 or 30 goals from one player. Rooney isn't good standing in the box, he's good running into the box and shooting from just outside the box, so if you put up front he's already in the position, together with a defender, where he should run to. He can score 15-20 from midfield, and helping a striker to score 20+. That's why Ferguson was right.
The issue is that Van Gaal had been working with Van Persie from May, if he thought Van Persie could get back to his best then why hasn't he? Van Gaal was the manager who brought in Falcao and Van Gaal is the manager who has, for the most part, moved Rooney deeper and deeper as the season has gone on. It's clear the squad needs improvement and that individual players need to do better but it's a bit crap that we've got a supposedly genius manager who spent £150m and yet we still need at least a right back, a centre half, a midfielder and a striker. We would be the most dislikable team in the league for the neutrals, spending massive money and playing tumescent football, but they're probably actually enjoying how quickly the stability Ferguson brought has disappeared.
I don't want to bring up Moyes but he apparently crushed the squad's spirit by saying we needed to bring in numerous players yet Van Gaal brought in numerous players and then still blames the players rather than himself for the fact our performances have been consistently poor all season.
Di Maria and Herrera never scored 10 goals in their career, but it's true that when Mata and Rooney play upfront they are around 40 goals, together.
Now Falcao isn't right mentally and wasn't right physically, while RVP is in decline since last year and strikers decline fast.
So he claims to follow his career since he was 10 years old? It's a shame his insight hasn't developed with growing up.
I don't know whether its because the posters defending LvG are mostly Dutch but there's an odd thing spreading around the forum where people are starting to speak like him.
Anyway, when LvG has pushed out two strikers and then signed a world class one to go with his Dutch captain and Rooney he has no room to talk down our strikers.
They're his selection and its his tactics theyre struggling under. He's continued to pick these underperforming players rather than going say Rooney/Mata.
Anyway, when LvG has pushed out two strikers and then signed a world class one to go with his Dutch captain and Rooney he has no room to talk down our strikers.
They're his selection and its his tactics theyre struggling under. He's continued to pick these underperforming players rather than going say Rooney/Mata.
So Louis van Gaal cannot state the obvious? That is if we had a striker scoring 20 goals this season we would be in the title race?
He also said next year could be different, the strikers might have been unlucky and could score more.
I actually have been saying this for a while, that is, had we Harry Kane or Costa level form from one of our strikers then we would be in the title race so I am glad Louis van Gaal also has said it.
These are world class strikers we are talking about, even when used in a partnership they should be performing better, the chances they have missed that they should have scored have been unreal, some of their performances terrible, and too often shots that should hit the target going miles off.
The strikers haven't been bad as they have had their good moments too but for their standard they have under performed and whilst the manager also must be to blame there is a line where you say enough is enough, come on man, you've got to hit the target from there.
Talking like van Gaal? This is normal, yes?
My judgement of Van Gaal at this point is simple - He should be doing better (style and results wise) than what he has done so far, considering his level, how good he is and the resources at his disposal, however, let's not act like his reign has been a complete disaster. It will only become a disaster if he doesn't meet the target [top four] in which case, I have always maintained he/or any other manager for that matter has to go. However, when he starts getting criticism for stating obvious things such as our strikers haven't been good enough, then I begin to wonder. Mourinho was not the reason Torres was piss poor last season for example, I see absolutely nothing wrong in what Van Gaal has said about the strikers.
I know we would all like more chances being created, but when we have created them, the strikers have been woeful. That is all he is saying. He maybe hasn't worded it too well, but he is right.
Like what? Mentioning tactical insights from after 1860?
Every time I see the thread title, the first word that comes to mind is 'shit'.
I feel the same about your posts on the subject.
Because of his tactics!
Player development in the midst of a rat race for CL football, at this stage of the season? Really.
Di Maria might be one of the fastest players we have but since when have we started picking strikers with pace as the the determinant
Rojo-Jones, fyi Smalling is still our player so it's not a matter of Jones or Evans.
Yes when we play Herrera in midfield we are a bit unstable at the back but are you certain that we can only play him as an 8 in a 4-4-2? For someone who is so renowned as a tactician couldn't he find a way of putting Herrera in the team whilst taking steps towards propping that midfield?
Finally we can justify his decisions till kingdom come but as long as he can't bring himself to hold RVP to the same standard as he holds Falcao, Rafael, Herrera, Januzaj, Rooney etc then he is fecking hypocrite and don't, for one second, think that his players do not notice.
Yeah I don't agree with those comments either. Sure, the strikers are underperforming. But they really are feeding off scraps. Put Diego Costa in the team and he'd have a similar goal tally with the service available.
I don't think there was anything wrong with trying to give the Falcao/RVP/Rooney formations a chance, but it became quite clear, quite quickly, that it created more problems then it solved..
- Both strikers are slow
- Both used to playing in their own
- Lack of width and creativity with the formation
- No focal point of the attack
One thing that I think stands out, is the amount of times we're keeping the ball really well, passing it around, but then getting to the final third. and we look like we're missing a player. Its like the opposition have more players, and its because rather then having an extra midfielder/ a winger/ or an attacking midfielder, we have two strikers up top, not contributing to the building of the attack. If we dropped one of those strikers back, put in an extra midfielder, I think we'd look far more threatening. We'd have more control of the ball, more creativity, and a proper focal point to build the attack around. Atm, with Falcao/RVP up top we don't look like we know what to do, and neither do they. Falcao has ended up trying to drop back, but thats just not his game. There is a reason why top teams very rarely play with two out and out strikers thesedays. Its very hard to make it work.
- Both strikers are slow
- Both used to playing in their own
- Lack of width and creativity with the formation
- No focal point of the attack
One thing that I think stands out, is the amount of times we're keeping the ball really well, passing it around, but then getting to the final third. and we look like we're missing a player. Its like the opposition have more players, and its because rather then having an extra midfielder/ a winger/ or an attacking midfielder, we have two strikers up top, not contributing to the building of the attack. If we dropped one of those strikers back, put in an extra midfielder, I think we'd look far more threatening. We'd have more control of the ball, more creativity, and a proper focal point to build the attack around. Atm, with Falcao/RVP up top we don't look like we know what to do, and neither do they. Falcao has ended up trying to drop back, but thats just not his game. There is a reason why top teams very rarely play with two out and out strikers thesedays. Its very hard to make it work.
Those ''figures'' have been there all season but it's funny how he chooses to bring them up now when the prospect of failure is real. He is putting in the early excuses to prep us for scapegoats but he was managing these players till now, what has he done to address this issue instead of mouthing off to the press? If had dropped them or chosen a one striker formation before I'd be siding with him now but alas, he has played them over more creative players and now the results of his folly are becoming apparent he chooses to throw them under the bus, bullshit!
Funny, because a lot of the criticism on here right now is all things I said would happen based on Van Gaals past. Maybe it's those that proclaimed him as a saviour, to turn on him 6 months later for things he has always done, that talk shit about this subject.
I find it hard to understand a manager publicly criticizing his players. Criticize in the dressing room or to the player privately but it achieves nothing doing it to the media other than trying to deflect blame from himself and that in turn would lose the respect of the players
He has got many things wrong but the thing I'm most pissed off is watching the brand of football he has us playing, I want him gone in summer for that reason alone.
Its chore watching us play football nowadays with all the pointless posession and slow as feck football.
Its chore watching us play football nowadays with all the pointless posession and slow as feck football.
My problem with this was that in January LVG insisted that our squad was strong enough and called the media out for saying that he needed to strengthen the squad.
Now when he can't do anything about it he's saying our strikers are not good enough. Has that suddenly changed in the last 4 weeks? No. Yet he made no effort to sure up the position in the window.
To be fair (and it's actually frustrating me that I find myself fighting his corner more and more, because I'm also not happy with lots of things) it's not fair to judge him on this brand of football. Clearly it's not what he's actually aiming for. Obviously you can only give him so long, so if this time next year the football's as tedious and we're not getting better results to make up for it, then that'll be the time to seriously consider his future.
I can't remember how Rodgers had Liverpool playing in his first season, but I'm sure it changed quite a bit in the second year. The one thing van Gaal has to realise is the importance of having an increased tempo/purpose in this league. If he persists with this International football tempo, then he'll get found out eventually.
If we give him next year and we still don't make top 4 we lose a fortune. The way that the other contenders for the top 4 spots have performed this year is extremely unusual, on the points we have now we may be 7 or 8 next year.
If I saw any improvement over last season then I would give him however long it took but there are bo signs of improvement in fact we are going backwards.
The post I quoted didn't mention top four. Just the brand of football. No top four this season makes it a whole new discussion/decision.
A couple of weeks ago when asked why he Was persisting with Rooney in midfield talked about the quality of RVP and Falcao keeping him out of a strikers spot.
fair enough.
He's said plenty of times he loves possession based football which basically is what his philosophy revolves around, So we should forget about playing adventurous attacking football even in long-term because he's not going to completely change his philosophy.
Maybe I'm coming across as bit too harsh on him because personally I've never been a fan of possession based football nor I've seen United ever play this way, so to basically see both of this combine this season has really pissed me off.
That's fair enough. I'm not huge on possession football myself, but I still think (provided we get top four) he should get the chance to showcase his system with the players he wants and a bit more time to implement it. If he gets it really right then I think most will be happy with the football and we'll have a good blend.
If we're still playing like a slightly more expensively assembled Netherlands come next season then I'll definitely be in agreement with you. You'd have to question the system itself or his ability to get it working.
We have 3 strikers that can score 20 goals a season.
Pick any striker on the planet and they'd be under performing in this side. At the start of the season the one area we all seemed to agree was ok was up front, van gaal has managed to turn Rooney, Falcao and RvP into a problem, whilst getting rid of two pacey reserve options.
Bottom line is if we have a striker problem, it's on the manager.
It's hard to have a 20-goal striker when the team sets up very conservatively for every match.
I too am getting tired of the excuses.
I too am getting tired of the excuses.
I'd love to see some footage of our training sessions because what I'm seeing for Xth match leads me to believe that we're doing sweet feck all in the training. No attacking drills (unless playing it to wing, to Young, is something we're so strongly working upon in training), no coordination in counters, even our fecking corner routines don't make sense (i.e. today Young is crossing at the far post - when we've always been crossing it at the front post - when we've got no Fellaini on the pitch who always occupies the far post).
Our most threatening player, again, is Young and today's special guest John O'Shea.
Our most threatening player, again, is Young and today's special guest John O'Shea.
The performances are getting worse. Even though we're somehow sitting in third (for now), I just get the feeling LVG would be quite content to get the sack and a massive pay off. Like the rest of us, he can't possibly be having any fun watching this week after week.
And now with the games ahead we're about to find out just how bad we've become.
And now with the games ahead we're about to find out just how bad we've become.
His man management skills are appalling. I mean, we kind of knew that before he came given all the quotes discussing it, but it's really being driven home in his time here.
Clearly, he has a good understanding of the mechanics of the game, and he has a very crisp picture in his mind of how he wants us (or any of the teams he has managed) to play. The problem is, the players aren't robots who can be programmed to perfectly obey, and that's where he falls down.
He just strikes me as having no understanding of how people think, or how confidence or psychology work in a player's performance. He's like the very worst most stats-obssessed posters on here; all about the numbers and nothing else. It explains why he always ends up falling out with everyone in sight at whatever club he's currently working at; it explains why he has such a tough time with the media, because he doesn't "get" them; it explains his baffling treatment of players and his utter inability to comprehend why the fans are getting on the team's back at the football they're playing.
Clearly, he has a good understanding of the mechanics of the game, and he has a very crisp picture in his mind of how he wants us (or any of the teams he has managed) to play. The problem is, the players aren't robots who can be programmed to perfectly obey, and that's where he falls down.
He just strikes me as having no understanding of how people think, or how confidence or psychology work in a player's performance. He's like the very worst most stats-obssessed posters on here; all about the numbers and nothing else. It explains why he always ends up falling out with everyone in sight at whatever club he's currently working at; it explains why he has such a tough time with the media, because he doesn't "get" them; it explains his baffling treatment of players and his utter inability to comprehend why the fans are getting on the team's back at the football they're playing.
Harsh on Falcao, but say what you want, that half-time sub was a brilliant call and not easy to make. Won us the game.
I just don't get him.
I find myself generally disagreeing with pretty much every decision he makes. From tactics, lineups, subsitutions etc etc
I find myself generally disagreeing with pretty much every decision he makes. From tactics, lineups, subsitutions etc etc
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