United under LvG: verdict so far!

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We've got a manager that seems incapable of getting the best out of his players. Picking on Di Maria today would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that he's just another name in a long list of very good players who haven't played very well most of the season.

I feel ridiculous being so negative given where we are in the league right now, but christ are we uninspiring.
 
Count Orduck said:
His man management skills are appalling. I mean, we kind of knew that before he came given all the quotes discussing it, but it's really being driven home in his time here.

Clearly, he has a good understanding of the mechanics of the game, and he has a very crisp picture in his mind of how he wants us (or any of the teams he has managed) to play. The problem is, the players aren't robots who can be programmed to perfectly obey, and that's where he falls down.

He just strikes me as having no understanding of how people think, or how confidence or psychology work in a player's performance. He's like the very worst most stats-obssessed posters on here; all about the numbers and nothing else. It explains why he always ends up falling out with everyone in sight at whatever club he's currently working at; it explains why he has such a tough time with the media, because he doesn't "get" them; it explains his baffling treatment of players and his utter inability to comprehend why the fans are getting on the team's back at the football they're playing.
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He has just temporarily moved up to third with this win, he made an excellent sub at half time, one most managers would probably be too hesitant to do. The way we played that game was fine, I agree with you on Falcao in the other thread however he has probably had enough of his poor link up play and will explore other options for Newcastle therefore he didn't care about building his confidence, he has spoke before about how a striker needs to score frequently for his confidence and he said regarding RVP that he needs to get a goal so he does understand the importance of confidence.

He could have concluded Sunderland were now only a threat from set pieces and Fellaini would help reduce that threat essentially making it incredibly unlikely the opposition would score. Fellaini makes sense if we need a goal but I'm sure you can see what he offers when we want to protect a lead.

He has pros and cons like every manager, we just need him to build a foundation as he has at other clubs and whilst doing that keep us in the top four. Woodward said the Bayern CEO told him that the best thing they did was hire Louis van Gaal and the second best thing they did was to sack him. The time will come for that probably but it isn't this season.

I said at the start of the season he is the type of manager a player like Young will perform under but probably not somebody like Angel di Maria. He either needs a bunch of talented kids that look up to him like a student to a school teacher or players like Young who desperately want to play for a club like United and earn 120k per week (10k per week less than Mata) but in truth probably aren't worth that, a player like Young in this case will give the manager total respect even on a subconscious level and do exactly what he is told to do.

Angel di Maria possibly feels he can't express himself how he wants and this is affecting his game, he needs to be much more disciplined in Louis van Gaal's set up, no doubt he is giving it his all but it can't be easy when you know how good you really are, he probably doesn't want to behave like a child and that will mean on a subconscious level he is not totally committed to the philosophy.
 
Harsh on Falcao, but the Di Maria one was a bold call and the right one too. I'll give him flak for not keeping Falcao longer after he earned us a penalty - I'll also praise him for doing something he hasn't done all season, sub an underperforming big player. Great call.
 
He has finally seen some sense and brought some width back into our game. Still we have a lot of work to do. Our play often seems to be missing a plan on what to actually do with the ball and where to move but this will only come with time and the team gelling more. Of course the team also needs improvements but it's important that we stick with a formation that offers more width than we had before. Now I just would like to see Falcao on the bench, Rooney up top and Mata behind him.
 
matt23 said:
We've got a manager that seems incapable of getting the best out of his players. Picking on Di Maria today would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that he's just another name in a long list of very good players who haven't played very well most of the season.

I feel ridiculous being so negative given where we are in the league right now, but christ are we uninspiring.
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You say that but I think he has improved Fellaini and got more out of him than most thought possible, he has got a lot out of Young and Valencia too, Blind isn't a top quality player but he performs well enough for us and I think Herrera has been fine too.

Unless you mean as a team? In which case judging by his history he is capable of that but he hasn't performed too well this season.
 
Empire said:
You say that but I think he has improved Fellaini and got more out of him than most thought possible, he has got a lot out of Young and Valencia too, Blind isn't a top quality player but he performs well enough for us and I think Herrera has been fine too.

Unless you mean as a team? In which case judging by his history he is capable of that but he hasn't performed too well this season.
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I'm a massive fan of Fellaini not being anywhere near our team so I'm probably a tad biased but Fellaini is Fellaini - the only reason he looked poorer last season was because we refused to play to his (minimal) strengths. You can give van Gaal credit for utilizing Fellaini properly but that's usually come at the direst expense of our footballing style. What I'm saying is I'd prefer our manager to be able to get the best out of our 60 milion quid, European cup holding winger, Rooney, RvP and Mata before we start going league 1 and hoping Fellaini gets a lucky knock down.

I'll agree with Herrera,the only player in the whole team that wants to receive the ball, turn and get us going as soon as possible, but he's the exception rather than the rule imo.
 
Count Orduck said:
His man management skills are appalling. I mean, we kind of knew that before he came given all the quotes discussing it, but it's really being driven home in his time here.

Clearly, he has a good understanding of the mechanics of the game, and he has a very crisp picture in his mind of how he wants us (or any of the teams he has managed) to play. The problem is, the players aren't robots who can be programmed to perfectly obey, and that's where he falls down.

He just strikes me as having no understanding of how people think, or how confidence or psychology work in a player's performance. He's like the very worst most stats-obssessed posters on here; all about the numbers and nothing else. It explains why he always ends up falling out with everyone in sight at whatever club he's currently working at;
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It would explain why he would fall out with the players, but he doesn't. He has had the odd falling out with a board member who wanted to have a say about which player should play, but generally people in general and players in particular like to work with him. It's difficult for especially the instinctive players because a lot of times their instincts are wrong, like moving inside instead of keeping the width. But in the end they will become better players because only the right instincts will remain. Players can express themselves, but not in a way that is bad for the team.

it explains why he has such a tough time with the media, because he doesn't "get" them; it explains his baffling treatment of players and his utter inability to comprehend why the fans are getting on the team's back at the football they're playing.
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The media don't like him because he's not scared of them, he's not humble and tell them like he sees it, which generally means the individual journalist doesn't feel respected as an expert on tactics. So they want to get back at him.
 
I think he'll get us back in the Champions League. He'll fulfill his remit of getting us some stability back to the top end of the league. His remit doesn't reflect the things he's done and how given the amount he's spent, and how much he talks so arrogantly about himself, he will have done just the bare minimum. Perhaps we'll truly reflect his work in a positive significant way when he's gone but as it is I for one am underwhelmed. I don't think we will ever win the league with him. Cups are his best chance where the games are knock-outs "We score more than you". A title push needs a pattern of performances and results.

I think we'll win the FA Cup this season. Mostly due to our easy draws which having said we made a right meal of, the fact that the others have been eliminated, and our first hard test is at home against a side who haven't beaten us at Old Trafford for 9 years.

Louis van Gaal is quite unique in that he is neither a pro-active or reactive manager. He has full belief in his "philosophy" and lets it play out. Thing is English football is very off the grain. No set in stone way will suceed at the highest level. And to be frank LvG's philosophy could be argued as dated.
 
I was about to post earlier in this thread and saw this, which sort of sums it up for me. Yes, we're in the CL places at the moment and if the season ended now, it would be acceptable. But some people seem to be assuming that it'll get better based on how bad it is at the moment (in terms of performances at least). I think it probably will, but I think it's far from certain.
 
Work in progress. Obvious some of the players simply aren't good enough. Next season will see more quality come in and the new players a season to settle.....
 
We are third (for now) which is the most important thing, but he is boring me no end week in week out. I mean literally I could go out for a walk for 20 mins and all I'd miss would be Evans passing the ball to DDG who passes it to Rojo who at least tries a positive forward pass to someone but within a minute we lose the ball again ... and if the ball gets to Blind or an attacker there are actually so few forward options to pass so we either pass it back or a cross gets cleared easily because again if you only have 1 or 2 players making runs / in the box, then they'll get marked easily and the ball gets cleared. That's all we serm to do most of the time.
 
Don't know what game you all watched but we were awful as usual and the idea he got it "spot on" is baffling. The Fellaini sub was an incredibly stupid thing to do and taking off Di Maria was a very obvious move indeed.

This argument that he's "got us where we need to be" is hilarious given our terrible performances and remaining fixtures. We're simply not going to stay there without either a massive improvement or quite amazing amount of luck. It's from the same delusion land as the "Rooney is secretly picking the team" idiocy from last season. It borders on denial.

There is nothing good enough about anything Van Gaal is doing. Unless talking an embarassing amount of bollocks and letting your ego blind you are somehow plus points. I know these two things led on the "Van Gaal is amazing" brigade for a while but surely the illusion has worn off by now. A set of players managed by a turnip would struggle to both underperform and under entertain as consistentlly.
 
Can't say a single thing about him strikes me as better than other managers, where does he excel? His comment recently about no 20 goal a season striker is laughable, he got rid of Welbeck for not scoring enough, brought Falcao in and then cries he doesn't have a 20 goal a season striker? Deplorable
 
noodlehair said:
Don't know what game you all watched but we were awful as usual and the idea he got it "spot on" is baffling. The Fellaini sub was an incredibly stupid thing to do and taking off Di Maria was a very obvious move indeed.

This argument that he's "got us where we need to be" is hilarious given our terrible performances and remaining fixtures. We're simply not going to stay there without either a massive improvement or quite amazing amount of luck. It's from the same delusion land as the "Rooney is secretly picking the team" idiocy from last season. It borders on denial.

There is nothing good enough about anything Van Gaal is doing. Unless talking an embarassing amount of bollocks and letting your ego blind you are somehow plus points. I know these two things led on the "Van Gaal is amazing" brigade for a while but surely the illusion has worn off by now. A set of players managed by a turnip would struggle to both underperform and under entertain as consistentlly.
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But with all that said @noodlehair your are forgetting that your a right old moany bollocks.
 
Steve Bates has just done a really interesting article on LVG. Reckons the Glazers are impressed, will take 2 years to revamp the squad and van Gaal wants to be here until 2020:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-united-boss-louis-van-5250801?

Louis van Gaal wants FIVE years as Manchester United boss – after falling in love with Old Trafford, writes Steve Bates in the Sunday People.

The 63-year-old has only been at the club for seven months but in a four-hour summit with members of the Glazer family recently, he outlined his plan for the club until 2020.

And the Red Devils' owners were so impressed they are open to extending Van Gaal’s initial three-year deal by two more years.

That would take the Dutchman into Sir Alex Ferguson territory - the legendary Scot finally stepped down as United boss when he was 71.

I understand Van Gaal met with United’s American owners Bryan, Avram and Joel Glazer during one of their infrequent mid-season trips to Old Trafford to see the 3-1 win over Burnley.

Van Gaal didn’t leave the stadium to head home to his Cheshire apartment until 3am after becoming engrossed in talks about his own future - and United’s.

And he made it clear he wants this to be his last club job and intends to stay beyond his current three year, £10million-a-season agreement.

Much will depend on whether Van Gaal, whose 2-0 win over Sunderland on Saturdaylifted United into third place, can deliver a Champions League place for next season.

But he has told close friends he feels energised by this late-career boost and is as happy in Manchester as he’s ever been on his footballing travels - he even wishes he had come to the Premier League earlier.

Now he’s in English football, though, he wants to stay and re-build Man United.

Despite watching humble Burnley outperform Van Gaal’s big-money stars in periods of the game, the club’s Florida-based owners are understood not to have dwelt on United’s patchy recent form.

And they took on board Van Gaal’s assessment that the squad needs a major overhaul that may take up to two years to complete.

That would only give him another year after that to start re-establishing United as a trophy-winning force - and he wants longer at the helm.

United’s summer transfer strategy was also on the agenda.

Van Gaal and executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward discussed targets such as Roma’s Dutch midfielder Kevin Strootman, Wolfsburg’s Kevin de Bruyne and Borussia Dortmund duo Mats Hummels and Ilkay Gundogan.

And the Dutchman mapped his plans for next season, insisting he would have United in better shape to fight for the title with powerhouses Chelsea and Manchester City.
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Based on what he did elsewhere and his age, I figured he'd be a good choice for 2-4 years (Young talent developing, Top 4 every year, Cup runs including a final and maybe even a League win and CL Semi or final) and put us in a position to really kick on once he left, or an outright disaster right away.

Today was a day the former looked more likely. Smalling was shockingly comfortable on the ball, Herrera played well, Rooney looks fresh enough to be effective and Januzaj was promising. We'd have been in serious trouble in that first 20 against a decent opponent and Falcao starting was a poor choice (though he won the game with that 2-touch work for the penalty and red card).

I like Di Maria but he has had terrible games before where he can't hit anything but opponents and there's nothing wrong with subbing him at halftime. If Young hadn't played well, I'd have suggested just switching Di Maria out to the left where he's trying to solve the problem of creating chances differently and can rely more on his pace and dribbling and less on his delivery.

The negatives were there too, though. We were poor up a man; Rooney didn't play as the 9 even though O'Shea and Brown are hardly equipped to deal with being dragged around for 90 minutes at this stage in their career; Yet another formation doesn't suggest LVG has been on top of things since day 1.

I'lll add that Hernandez would surely have scored if he'd been around instead of hanging out in Madrid and the Falcao loan fee (9,right?) and wages (Don't even want to know) would have alone paid for a real fullback or, if combined with what we spent on Rojo, basically any CB in the world who would agree to come here.

Overall should we keep LVG score: Herrera started!
 
That's probably because we applauded him even when losing so for those fans who don't want that you better stop that, he also spoke of how people would see him in the street and instead of abusing him would wish him luck and tell them how they trust him even when we were doing poor at the start of the season.

I personally want him long term so I'm happy.

As for Steve Bates, how much does he know? Is that article likely to be accurate or not?
 
I'm glad he dropped Di Maria. Big decision but in the end it worked very good, Januzaj looked like our best attacker out there in the second half.
 
Brophs said:
I was about to post earlier in this thread and saw this, which sort of sums it up for me. Yes, we're in the CL places at the moment and if the season ended now, it would be acceptable. But some people seem to be assuming that it'll get better based on how bad it is at the moment (in terms of performances at least). I think it probably will, but I think it's far from certain.
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That's very good point he's made. Constantly waiting for 'when it clicks is risky'. You can only wait for so long, because eventually unconvincing wins will become draws. This particularly applies to us away from home from now 'til the end of the season.
 
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Knives are out for Van Gaal now it seems. We've played 1 striker as fans wanted and with wingers today as fans wanted and we have dominated the game and won creating plenty of chances to win 3/4. Yet people are still not happy?

Just no pleasing some folks I suppose.
 
MarkC said:
Knives are out for Van Gaal now it seems. We've played 1 striker as fans wanted and with wingers today as fans wanted and we have dominated the game and won creating plenty of chances to win 3/4. Yet people are still not happy?

Just no pleasing some folks I suppose.
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Yeah I agree. Crucial month coming up, hopefully we can kick on
 
Brophs said:
I was about to post earlier in this thread and saw this, which sort of sums it up for me. Yes, we're in the CL places at the moment and if the season ended now, it would be acceptable. But some people seem to be assuming that it'll get better based on how bad it is at the moment (in terms of performances at least). I think it probably will, but I think it's far from certain.
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We havent played entertaining football for years now. I'm more interested in seeing how he does in the 2nd year. Van Gaal has always struck me as a guy with a plan.
 
Presumably they won't pull the trigger on any new deal till he's qualified for the CL. It's interesting, Van Gaal must have impressed them with his longer term plan.

I'm also really interested to see where he - and we - go from here, who his targets are and how we line up next season . As convincing a case as Noodle and others make I don't believe he's an idiot, I'm sure we'll improve.
 
Adebesi said:
Presumably they won't pull the trigger on any new deal till he's qualified for the CL. It's interesting, Van Gaal must have impressed them with his longer term plan.

I'm also really interested to see where he - and we - go from here, who his targets are and how we line up next season . As convincing a case as Noodle and others make I don't believe he's an idiot, I'm sure we'll improve.
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"Can you include 'no value in the market' into your philosophy?"

"Yesh, I tell you thish already, no, it ish good for me to not be fired, yesh"

"Yeehaw!"

I'm being a dick, of course, the club has been investing much more money the last few windows and that's great.

I'm glad that they're happy, and as long as he secures top 4 (ideally top 3), he'll certainly have my support for the next season. But feck me do we need to start seeing some JOY in the football he puts out...

Just one player who can wreak havoc and is encouraged to do so - bit like Robben in the world cup. Just some spark, some entertainment, some excitement.
 
JUPITER said:
I'm glad that they're happy, and as long as he secures top 4 (ideally top 3), he'll certainly have my support for the next season. But feck me do we need to start seeing some JOY in the football he puts out...

Just one player who can wreak havoc and is encouraged to do so - bit like Robben in the world cup. Just some spark, some entertainment, some excitement.
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I'm confident we'll start to see more pleasing football. He hasn't been synonymous with boring football in the past.
 
Spoony said:
He's turned Falcao and ADM into conference players.
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This is wrong on so many levels, Falcao has injury and himself to blame and Di Maria? Give me a break. It's not his fault that a player of his calber keeps fecking up simple things over and over again, how long are we going to wrap these so called big stars in cotton? How could Young [a limited player] excel and attack with such fluency yet, Di Maria fecks up almost every attacking play with silly decisions?
 
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