The few things I have enjoyed are DDG's performances, Blind as a DM, Herrera bringing goals from midfield and that's it.
We are a shit club when you take into account who we were and the money we spent in the summer.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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The few things I have enjoyed are DDG's performances, Blind as a DM, Herrera bringing goals from midfield and that's it.
We are a shit club when you take into account who we were and the money we spent in the summer.
I think it has to do more with our players lacking ideas, not knowing what to do with the ball and ending up passing it sideways . Possession is a very tricky stat.
Two mistakes today
1. Not having Wilson on the bench, as he is far more likely to get you a goal than Falcao
2. Not subbing RVP
1. Not having Wilson on the bench, as he is far more likely to get you a goal than Falcao
2. Not subbing RVP
It's fair to say that he's been found out.
To be fair, Chelsea didn't win either..and they were are home against Burnley....Burnley!! It's a tough league. I really thought we played well....it was one of those days. It's not as though we are used to losing...I mean what is that, 2 losses in 20 games?
Agreed. I've been saying since he was appointed, but his arrogance and unpleasantness just serve to mask his lack of ability. He's like the boss we've all had at work - the one full of jargon who swans about the place but doesn't actually have a fecking clue.
My confidence in him building a title winning team has now plummeted to Moyes-esque levels.
He makes stupid decisions and quite frankly seems clueless.
He makes stupid decisions and quite frankly seems clueless.
Say for instance we did change the manager now and just say its to Giggs, would he be able to get us top 4? Or are we better off sticking wit LVG for the season knowing what is going to come?
Chelsea can consider that one game as a shock, although we've got quite a few good results we're playing absolutely horrible where as Chelsea are mostly playing fantastic football and sitting at the top of the table and generally scoring goals for fun.
Updated Moyes 2013/14 Vs Van Gaal 2014/15 game by game/head to head record:
Swansea home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 0
Sunderland away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Burnley/Fulham away (team that finished 2nd in Championship equivalent to team that finished 2nd bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
QPR/Cardiff home (team that got promoted via the play-offs equivalent to team that finished bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Leicester/Norwich away (team that finished 1st in Championship equivalent to team that finished 3rd bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 0
West Ham home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Everton home:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 3
West Brom away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Chelsea home:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 1
Man City away:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 0
Crystal Palace home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Arsenal away:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 3
Hull Home:
N/A, as Moyes had been sacked by this point.
Stoke home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Southampton away:
N/A, as Moyes had been sacked by this point.
Liverpool home:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 3
Villa away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Newcastle home:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 3
Tottenham away:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 1
Stoke away:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 1
Southampton home:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 0
QPR/Cardiff away (team that got promoted via the play-offs equivalent to team that finished bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 3
Leicester/Norwich home (team that finished 1st in Championship equivalent to team that finished 3rd bottom in Prem):
N/A, as Moyes had been sacked by this point.
West Ham away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Burnley/Fulham home (team that finished 2nd in Championship equivalent to team that finished 2nd bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 3
Swansea away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 0
Final score:
Moyes - 42
Van Gaal - 38
Swansea home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 0
Sunderland away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Burnley/Fulham away (team that finished 2nd in Championship equivalent to team that finished 2nd bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
QPR/Cardiff home (team that got promoted via the play-offs equivalent to team that finished bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Leicester/Norwich away (team that finished 1st in Championship equivalent to team that finished 3rd bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 0
West Ham home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Everton home:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 3
West Brom away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Chelsea home:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 1
Man City away:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 0
Crystal Palace home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Arsenal away:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 3
Hull Home:
N/A, as Moyes had been sacked by this point.
Stoke home:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 3
Southampton away:
N/A, as Moyes had been sacked by this point.
Liverpool home:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 3
Villa away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Newcastle home:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 3
Tottenham away:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 1
Stoke away:
Moyes - 0
Van Gaal - 1
Southampton home:
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 0
QPR/Cardiff away (team that got promoted via the play-offs equivalent to team that finished bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 3
Leicester/Norwich home (team that finished 1st in Championship equivalent to team that finished 3rd bottom in Prem):
N/A, as Moyes had been sacked by this point.
West Ham away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 1
Burnley/Fulham home (team that finished 2nd in Championship equivalent to team that finished 2nd bottom in Prem):
Moyes - 1
Van Gaal - 3
Swansea away:
Moyes - 3
Van Gaal - 0
Final score:
Moyes - 42
Van Gaal - 38
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I agree completely. I mean, when we lose, it's expected that people will be angry as feck. It's also justified as we should be winning these games. But it really was our best away performance since City (which we also lost).
Same, i laughed when Swansea scored their 2nd as i knew it was coming. The subs made no sense either, but again I wasn't expecting him to take off RVP who couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.
My main problem were his changes. Firstly, why is McNair stating ahead of Valencia anyway. The second change. Shaw, for once, is looking quite good going forward. If we were to bring Young on I thought it should have been for RVP. Play with wingers. The final change, while Di Maria didn't have his greatest game he was still a threat and provided us pace in midfield. I like Mata, but placing him in CM is pretty pointless.
I said in the other thread that I thought this was one of our better performances. Swansea, I felt were quite lucky but even still, the lack of chances we created is worrying.
I said in the other thread that I thought this was one of our better performances. Swansea, I felt were quite lucky but even still, the lack of chances we created is worrying.
Thankfully I'm not the only one that sees it this way.
Barring a couple of little things, LVG's selection and tactics were spot on. Our forwards suck though.
The King Louis Philoschophee
Pass ball in own half for ten minutes
Opposition starts to press, panic, oh shit, oh shit!
Pass to De Gea
Hoof ball forward and hope Fellaini chests it down/heads it
Shoot aimlessly or make weird pass that misses everyone
Pass ball in own half for ten minutes
Opposition starts to press, panic, oh shit, oh shit!
Pass to De Gea
Hoof ball forward and hope Fellaini chests it down/heads it
Shoot aimlessly or make weird pass that misses everyone
Possession-based football with little movement from strikers, with very limited amount of players eager to move the ball fast. We are one of the most predictable teams in the league, despite having players like Di Maria and Mata. The best managers are the ones that get the maximum out of the players they have at their disposal, and continuously build up on what they have. If we do not finish in top 4, van Gaal needs to resign. The current lot would get into top 3 under a manager like Mou, Simeone and even Wenger imo.
I'm starting to doubt him. Some of his decisions are baffling. It's not a Moyes-esque collosal failure, but it's not ticking and he did purchase 5 very good to top players this summer.
Surely Moyes gets a handicap as he didn't spend £150 million too? Which would put him further ahead.
In fact your post should just end the debate.
Do you know what might help playing our fecking wingers up the field on the wing not as a wing back so we can have the full backs over lapping on both sides of the of the field, as for plan Feliani i mean plan A tell him to feck off with it, i only watched the second half but everything was up to him, it was like watching england knocking everything up to Crouch a few years ago difference being crouch was handy with his feet.
I think LVG is trying to have his cake and eat it with the diamond with Fellaini in there and 2 strikers. That's too little pace/guile. In normal play it just slows us down and it's hard to get anyone in. Only when we actually committ to knocking it long to fellaini and he's told to really push up does it work well. In general though I think it's stopping us from playing as well as we could and we're not getting the best out of the creative players we have because of it. He can't play anyone in. So much of our attack is 3-4 players with their back to goal at the edge of the box so the ball ends up going backwards.
I get the appeal of Fellaini in the team and I think we could get by with him and Rooney up top and then adding mata/januzaj to the midfield. It's not ideal as personally I think right now Rooney up top with di maria, mata and januzaj is worth trying but Felaini does add something there. I think though that LVG needs to live up to his reputation though and at the very least drop RVP and Falcao because both are holding us back.
In general I personally have been disappointed in his big decisions. Coming to united I always heard he was someone who would make the big decisions but for me so much of what he has tried has centred around getting two strikers on the pitch when they've not performed (and bizzarely he's commented before that he lacks pace up top yet still persists with them and got rid of both our pacey strikers in the summer).
It's not all doom and gloom as I can see he's brought some positives but I also believe he's causing his problems with his persistance in setting up the team to suit some players who aren't and haven't been performing at the expense of the team. I can't believe with the players we have that this is the best they can play.
I get the appeal of Fellaini in the team and I think we could get by with him and Rooney up top and then adding mata/januzaj to the midfield. It's not ideal as personally I think right now Rooney up top with di maria, mata and januzaj is worth trying but Felaini does add something there. I think though that LVG needs to live up to his reputation though and at the very least drop RVP and Falcao because both are holding us back.
In general I personally have been disappointed in his big decisions. Coming to united I always heard he was someone who would make the big decisions but for me so much of what he has tried has centred around getting two strikers on the pitch when they've not performed (and bizzarely he's commented before that he lacks pace up top yet still persists with them and got rid of both our pacey strikers in the summer).
It's not all doom and gloom as I can see he's brought some positives but I also believe he's causing his problems with his persistance in setting up the team to suit some players who aren't and haven't been performing at the expense of the team. I can't believe with the players we have that this is the best they can play.
Playing Fellaini at #10 means that we should be focusing on width and playing the ball into the box. So he starts a CB at RWB, a position he has only played a number of times and only looked good there against Cambridge United. Surely if we're playing McNair at RB we should be playing Mata at #10.
Then there's the two strikers at all time bollocks. I really don't get this. He didn't do it for Holland, so why is he insisting on it at United? Why aren't we at least trying with one striker and two wingers in Di Maria and Januzaj? Drop RVP, he's shite, and play Di Maria - Rooney - Januzaj behind a midfield 3 of Fellaini- Blind - Herrera.
I'm really losing patience with him now, he's playing the same old nonsense tactics regardless of the formation, and most importantly - before the season had started I genuinely thought that I didn't care about the results particularly I just wanted to enjoy watching United play after last season where I would almost dread United games for the fear of being bored out of my skull. And yet this season is worse in some ways because big money has been spent and we're still absolutely no better off.
Then there's the two strikers at all time bollocks. I really don't get this. He didn't do it for Holland, so why is he insisting on it at United? Why aren't we at least trying with one striker and two wingers in Di Maria and Januzaj? Drop RVP, he's shite, and play Di Maria - Rooney - Januzaj behind a midfield 3 of Fellaini- Blind - Herrera.
I'm really losing patience with him now, he's playing the same old nonsense tactics regardless of the formation, and most importantly - before the season had started I genuinely thought that I didn't care about the results particularly I just wanted to enjoy watching United play after last season where I would almost dread United games for the fear of being bored out of my skull. And yet this season is worse in some ways because big money has been spent and we're still absolutely no better off.
Agreed. Still wasn't very good though.
Van Gaals was utterly stupid not to buy a world class central defender and a world class box to box midfielder last summer. It wasn't easy to attract top players considering the mess that Moyes had left the squad in but everyone knew what we needed over the summer and Van Gaal..out of sheer stubbornness and stupidity made the same mistakes as Moyes by not identifying where we needed world class signings the most.....
In fairness to Van Gaal....we absolutely dominated Swansea and played well but Swansea had 2 chances all game and took them and we simply don't have enough quality in central defense or central midfield to cope when we are under pressure even against relegation level and mid-table level teams
It's going to be a long painful end to the season with no top 4 at the end.....I think Van Gaal has made enough howler decisions to be sacked considering al the money he has spent but I think the club needs stability and he should be given the summer to balance out the mess of a squad we have. With no top 4 we are not going to get the big major signings so it could be a painful summer ahead too. Fellaini, Mata, possibly Herrera (I know he has played well but he is not dynamic or imposing enough for central midfield especially in defending) Nani, Falcao etc all need to be shipped out in the summer but won't be easy off-laoding them with their huge salaries
In fairness to Van Gaal....we absolutely dominated Swansea and played well but Swansea had 2 chances all game and took them and we simply don't have enough quality in central defense or central midfield to cope when we are under pressure even against relegation level and mid-table level teams
It's going to be a long painful end to the season with no top 4 at the end.....I think Van Gaal has made enough howler decisions to be sacked considering al the money he has spent but I think the club needs stability and he should be given the summer to balance out the mess of a squad we have. With no top 4 we are not going to get the big major signings so it could be a painful summer ahead too. Fellaini, Mata, possibly Herrera (I know he has played well but he is not dynamic or imposing enough for central midfield especially in defending) Nani, Falcao etc all need to be shipped out in the summer but won't be easy off-laoding them with their huge salaries
It's February and he's still clueless with his tactics and line ups, simple decisions seem to be beyond him and it's infuriating.
A big ego manager selecting a team based around big ego players with little thought given to how they are actually performing. On paper some great names in our team but the reality is very ordinary.
Loads of the ball virtually nobody willing to even try a shot within 30 yards. Odd decisions where the back line's despite there being no reason for it. All in all just don't get Van Gaal or where we are going under him.
I will give him this: our defence is an absolute cesspool. Every time players enter our half it looks like they're going to get a chance to score. Only luck, off the lines and DDG in beast mode have kept our record near what it is.
I'm not sure how else he can mitigate the utter sh*t that is our back 4 at the moment. He's already sacrificed risk taking and pace, maybe pull two midfielders into defensive positions?
I like to think he's just going to snap, think f*ck it these lads can't defend for toffee so we're going to have to outscore the opposition, whip his balls out and go for it.
I'm not sure how else he can mitigate the utter sh*t that is our back 4 at the moment. He's already sacrificed risk taking and pace, maybe pull two midfielders into defensive positions?
I like to think he's just going to snap, think f*ck it these lads can't defend for toffee so we're going to have to outscore the opposition, whip his balls out and go for it.
Something's a bit wrong here; this isn't our first few matches under a new manager with new players, we're pretty deep into a season where LVG has had the opportunity to chop and change to his heart's content. It's also been several months since our initial injury crisis has settled down, so that's another excuse we can't use.
Possession football doesn't bother me, I personally don't think we have to play the "united way" with flying wingers etc. But it's like we lose all cohesiveness and tempo as soon as the ball goes near their box. In the first half today I thought we actually looked decent going forwards, with Herrera accelerating our passing in the transitions from defence to attack. But it all seemed to slow down as soon as we got at their defenders, with very little movement from the strikers (in fact absolutely none from RVP), and fecking ages to pick any sort of pass out (that inevitably went sideways or back and let Swansea regain their shape).
The second half was more like what we're used to seeing under LVG unfortunately; Swansea retreated a bit and we dominated possession to absolutely no avail. We were obviously not going to get at their defenders as much given their defensive setup, but whatever happens to us whenever we get the ball wide is infuriating — players all seem to move away from the ball, just waiting for a shit cross floated in to the back post. It's predictable, it's slow, and barring a couple of Fellaini knock-downs, it's dead easy to defend against as long as the oppo has decent defenders.
And yet here we are, hearing again about how good the team we played against were; we somehow always make them look threatening every time they get the ball forwards, no matter how shite they are. Why is it that we need to setup with 57 players behind the ball to look even remotely solid? It's not like we're only talking about counter-attacks, that will tend to happen when we play the more attack minded formations that make Louis' ass twitch. It's every bloody time they get forwards, on the counter, with slower possession, with set pieces, crosses, you name it. We didn't track runs, we didn't close crosses down, lost so many headers...
I can forgive being a bit ponderous going forwards (for a few more months at least, not forever), but this ability to make crap teams look like superstars every bloody week is inexcusable.
Possession football doesn't bother me, I personally don't think we have to play the "united way" with flying wingers etc. But it's like we lose all cohesiveness and tempo as soon as the ball goes near their box. In the first half today I thought we actually looked decent going forwards, with Herrera accelerating our passing in the transitions from defence to attack. But it all seemed to slow down as soon as we got at their defenders, with very little movement from the strikers (in fact absolutely none from RVP), and fecking ages to pick any sort of pass out (that inevitably went sideways or back and let Swansea regain their shape).
The second half was more like what we're used to seeing under LVG unfortunately; Swansea retreated a bit and we dominated possession to absolutely no avail. We were obviously not going to get at their defenders as much given their defensive setup, but whatever happens to us whenever we get the ball wide is infuriating — players all seem to move away from the ball, just waiting for a shit cross floated in to the back post. It's predictable, it's slow, and barring a couple of Fellaini knock-downs, it's dead easy to defend against as long as the oppo has decent defenders.
And yet here we are, hearing again about how good the team we played against were; we somehow always make them look threatening every time they get the ball forwards, no matter how shite they are. Why is it that we need to setup with 57 players behind the ball to look even remotely solid? It's not like we're only talking about counter-attacks, that will tend to happen when we play the more attack minded formations that make Louis' ass twitch. It's every bloody time they get forwards, on the counter, with slower possession, with set pieces, crosses, you name it. We didn't track runs, we didn't close crosses down, lost so many headers...
I can forgive being a bit ponderous going forwards (for a few more months at least, not forever), but this ability to make crap teams look like superstars every bloody week is inexcusable.
Tactical genius my arse.
I thought we played really well just didn't convert our chances and lost to a deflected long shot. I would go as far as to say it was our best performance of the season.
The difference at the moment is our strikers cannot fecking hit the target.
The difference at the moment is our strikers cannot fecking hit the target.
Dead on, first thing I thought after switching it on. I would even go so far as saying attcking wise we were still the most fluid we have been in a while in the first half as well.
A performance needs to be measured on more than just stats indeed. That was a good performance. We played well. Bit frantic at the end but meh, we were chasing the game.
Won't expect you to see it that way, mind you. Any excuse to bang that drum you've been banging all season.
Just don't get the insistence on playing a diamond shape. I really don't. We clearly would defend and attack better with two wingers and either 3 midfielders/1 striker or 2 midfielders/2 strikers.
Anything would be better than this shit which forces us to field Fellaini at the tip of the diamond. Its infuriating when Swansea break forwards and you see Felli, RVP and Rooney basically standing at the front and not even bothering to chase back. It leaves Blind/Herrera with acres of space to cover. Wheres the balance in that?
Its so obvious that it hurts but yet we still keep playing these narrow shite formations. Im furious right now because we should be winning these away matches not losing them. We are clearly better man for man but just undone by unfamiliarity and unbalanced lineups.
Anything would be better than this shit which forces us to field Fellaini at the tip of the diamond. Its infuriating when Swansea break forwards and you see Felli, RVP and Rooney basically standing at the front and not even bothering to chase back. It leaves Blind/Herrera with acres of space to cover. Wheres the balance in that?
Its so obvious that it hurts but yet we still keep playing these narrow shite formations. Im furious right now because we should be winning these away matches not losing them. We are clearly better man for man but just undone by unfamiliarity and unbalanced lineups.
When's it ok to post a 'LVG out' thread?
Other people are angry that THIS was a good performance by this season's standards. It really wasn't a good performance by any means. This whole overreaction to stringing a few passes together is just stupid, do people here watch anything other than United? We should be doing better than this, and I feel that there are managers out there capable of producing better results and better style with the players we have.
How many saves did their goalkeeper make? How many did Adrian make? How many did Begovic? Guazan? Or the Burnley and Sunderland goalkeeper make away from home?
We so easy to play away from home. It's not unlucky. We just do very little with the ball.
We so easy to play away from home. It's not unlucky. We just do very little with the ball.
This was against a poor Swansea team, a team destroyed by Chelsea a few weeks ago.
Yes, we looked good for a while in the second half but we were left with so much time and space on the ball I don't think anyone has given us this season. And we still lost. And we still couldn't create clear goal chances. And we still ended up constantly lumping it to Fellaini.
We won't have an easier away fixture til the end of the season. Bodes well for 4th.
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