Its unprofessional. If being close to players makes it difficult to make rational selections, he shouldnt be fraternising with the players. Its not rocket science, a lot of managers avoid socialising with players for precisely this reason. The whole "explain but not excuse" thing doesnt cut it, its wrong and he should know better.
United under LvG: verdict so far!
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Our defence is living its own life, injuries, red cards and so on but if 2 out and out strikers, Rooney and Januzaj in midfield is playing it safe then I want to see how our attacking line-up will look like!
Not because he's his buddy. Because he trusts and rates him as a player. Same way Fergie possibly stuck with Giggs and Scholes a bit too long. Not ideal but completely understandable. Especially for a manager surrounded by so many new players who have been letting him down just as much as RvP.
Chelsea last season weren't far off the title and some of the football they played was exciting. You could see the foundations were there for a great team, we have a likeness but our football doesn't quite have the same cutting edge at times. Mourinho only needed to add two players in Fabregas and Costa, to make them into a so far title winning team. The question is, if we added two world class players to our first team, would we be transformed into a title winning team? I can't say I think we would as imo we need 3 or 4.
I agree that injuries have made things tough for lvg but some of his team selections and substitutions, haven't helped his case. Constantly sticking to RvP and Falcao upfront, not knowing where's best to play di Maria and barely playing Herrera has been disappointing.
This exactly. It's a little worrying that we aren't showing any signs of progressive or offensive football. The defining features of our games are all negative ones; sterile, impotent, uncreative, slow, ponderous, mistake ridden, careless, mind boggling selections. We could bring in Bale and Messi and still make a mess of things judging from the way we go about our business on the pitch.
Is that an apt comparison? I see what you are saying but Giggs and Scholes always gave us more than this - and this is from someone who (against the grain) argued against bringing Scholes out of retirement and certainly felt Giggs was picked too often. But still, they both earned some plaudits for their performances right up to the end so the selections were justified. How long do you go on picking someone because you trust them, even if the evidence of your own eyes argues to the contrary?
That said, I agree with your comparison inasmuch as this season has really put Fergie's sentimentality into perspective for me. The younger incarnations of SAF and (I asume) LVG wouldnt have been as soft as these two have been. I just cant get on board with it being "understandable", I dont like it. Pissing yourself every day is understandable for old people, doesnt mean we should turn a blind eye to it. 7 months in I just dont see it as an excuse, there should be a level playing field, people should be playing on merit. We bought experience but when we got it home and unwrapped it we found we'd been sold senility.
If we do sack LVG we need to avoid replacing him with someone who qualifies for a free bus pass.
Strangely I'd lose all respect for LVG if we line up in the next game with Rooney and Wilson up front and Mata in behind or something similar. I mean I'd like to see it and I'm convinced it would help us on eye if nothing else.....but I want a manager convinced of his plan even in the face of mass criticism. If results were poor perhaps but not as things stand.
I'm more disappointed with LVG than I ever was with Moyes.
I expected nothing but mediocrity from Moyes from the day he was appointed to the day he was sacked. But I truly believed that LVG would transform our "shit on a stick "football and for the want of a better word, fix us.
For me Van Gaal has been a massive disappointment and is looking like another costly managerial mistake.
I expected nothing but mediocrity from Moyes from the day he was appointed to the day he was sacked. But I truly believed that LVG would transform our "shit on a stick "football and for the want of a better word, fix us.
For me Van Gaal has been a massive disappointment and is looking like another costly managerial mistake.
Exactly, all they needed was a striker
Defense:
We've got just one natural fullback and 4 CBs, three of which are injury prone and hardly top EPL club material.
Midfield
We lack a quality DM and our best play maker is most suitable in a 3 men midfield something LVG don't want to play for the time being. Fellaini adds steel (which we need) but he's pretty average in everything else
Wing
If you remove Di Maria none of them can actually dribble. Januzaj has potential though
Forward line
They are all big names but there's very little substance left in them.
As said I don't like LVG's tactics. In my opinion we would witness better football if we utilize a 4-3-3 system with Rooney upfront and Herrera in CM. Nevertheless lets not kid ourselves that this squad can realistically compete with Shitty or Chelsea. Its not the case
Agree!
I don't really feel that's a fair comparison. Jose took over a Chelsea side that he was very familiar with, in a league he knows well. Along with that, the season previous to his return, they had finished 3rd, 3 points off second, and weren't too far removed from having won the Champions League. Chelsea did play some exciting football, and weren't too far off the title - but they were coming from a position of much more strength. Solid back line etc.
We're needing to bed in a lot of new players, doing this with terrible defenders who aren't good enough for the club in the most part in my opinion, and facing a pretty big injury crisis.
OK, it's not great, but we're in the champions league places, and I've seen enough from Louis that he deserves benefit of the doubt. Every side of his I've followed over the years has played exciting football. I don't think he's suddenly decided, at his age, that he wants a boring team! The players plainly aren't giving him what he wants. OK, he's making some odd choices at times, and is obviously making some mistakes and some strange decisions.
But I'm thinking he's decided to try and get us to top 4 however he can do it. I know some people value style more than results, and I can understand that. But I personally think they're inextricably linked. We need the results now to get us CL qualification. This helps in the transfer market when it comes to attracting players, and once Louis can have another summer window bringing in the players he wants for his "philosophy", we'll see the exciting football start to emerge.
Yes, we've paid a lot of money for some players. But can they all hit the ground running immediately? No, that's not fair. Do people really have such short memories to see how long it took the likes of Evra & Vidic to get going?
Give it time folks!
I'm still pretty faithful, largely because I like him, and his record has clout, but that first half against Burnley was close to turning me, much like the Newcastle game did for Moyes.
The main thing I keep coming back to is how obvious it seems (to my ignorant mind at least) that a Blind-Hererra central partnership is the natural way. Not just for now, but for years to come. And aligned with that, how obvious it also is that Hererra and Mata play well together. We have these three, young, talented, ball playing midfielders, all filling a different midfield discipline (i.e. BALANCE!) and our manager seems intent on playing Rooney (out of position) or Fellaini (in whatever position it is he plays) instead, whilst simultaneously whinging that we're unbalanced, and aren't playing well enough.
Those three are 24, 25 and 26. We could build our side around them for years, at least transitionally (Them as a spine behind one striker, with Di Maria & Januzaj either side for example*) and yet we're shoehorning two 30 year old strikers into the same one position at their expense, game after game, for no beneficial reason. Both of whom are suffering form the very lack of creativity these players would provide. Not to mention that as his best friends, a happy and settled Ander & Juan would likely mean a happy and settled David De Gea.**
I know fan opinions are notoriously knee-jerk and idiotic, and that players out of the team will miraculosuly rise in worth by dissociation, but we are at the same point now that we were with Fergie's Giggs-Scholes midfields, and Moyes's Young-Valencia 4-4-2s, where we can predict with high accuracy how shit we'll play based on the line up alone. I'd say 90% of our shit performances have been widely predicted on here. And not because there's an unusually high gathering of savants online either. Just because it's so incredibly obvious.
* Rooney could alternate 9 and 10 while RVP was still able, then Mata (being 3 years younger) would take over the 10 full time.
** Usually that would be the worst argument for a specific team selection, but this year we'd be fecked without La Quiff, and I'm terrified of losing him.
The main thing I keep coming back to is how obvious it seems (to my ignorant mind at least) that a Blind-Hererra central partnership is the natural way. Not just for now, but for years to come. And aligned with that, how obvious it also is that Hererra and Mata play well together. We have these three, young, talented, ball playing midfielders, all filling a different midfield discipline (i.e. BALANCE!) and our manager seems intent on playing Rooney (out of position) or Fellaini (in whatever position it is he plays) instead, whilst simultaneously whinging that we're unbalanced, and aren't playing well enough.
Those three are 24, 25 and 26. We could build our side around them for years, at least transitionally (Them as a spine behind one striker, with Di Maria & Januzaj either side for example*) and yet we're shoehorning two 30 year old strikers into the same one position at their expense, game after game, for no beneficial reason. Both of whom are suffering form the very lack of creativity these players would provide. Not to mention that as his best friends, a happy and settled Ander & Juan would likely mean a happy and settled David De Gea.**
I know fan opinions are notoriously knee-jerk and idiotic, and that players out of the team will miraculosuly rise in worth by dissociation, but we are at the same point now that we were with Fergie's Giggs-Scholes midfields, and Moyes's Young-Valencia 4-4-2s, where we can predict with high accuracy how shit we'll play based on the line up alone. I'd say 90% of our shit performances have been widely predicted on here. And not because there's an unusually high gathering of savants online either. Just because it's so incredibly obvious.
* Rooney could alternate 9 and 10 while RVP was still able, then Mata (being 3 years younger) would take over the 10 full time.
** Usually that would be the worst argument for a specific team selection, but this year we'd be fecked without La Quiff, and I'm terrified of losing him.
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A million times, this.
I love the way you are thinking, and it would probably satisfy the philosophy as well.
Could not agree more. Very well put, particularly the bolded part.
The point is the players we have allow us to play much better football than we are now. Also, your statements are all quite sweeping if you don't mind me saying. One natural fullback? Rafael and Shaw? I'd even throw in Rojo. Injury proneness has nothing to do with balance.
Lacking a quality DM doesn't really affect balance either. Blind and Carrick shield the defence in their own way through positioning and anticipation and their ability to recycle possession well. Fellaini's movement is also a lot better than many people credit him for. But they need to be played alongside Herrera, Fellaini and Di Maria who make the balance happen. Forwards lacking substance? I'd argue that they're as much victims of our lack of creativity as they are of their own poor form. Persie still makes excellent runs in off the shoulders of defenders every game. What we need is either an advanced midfielder like Mata behind the striker or a False Nine like Rooney beside him so we aren't so static up top.
Can't realistically compete with City or Chelsea? We'd certainly be pushing them alot harder if we chose to play the right way and not misuse the team. Once we've got our selections and playstyle down we would then be able to be serious contenders given a couple more signings.
I hope not.
On paper we got two however Rafael is never available, so in reality we've got one. Rojo is as much of a full back as Smalling, Jones, Blind, Valencia, Young and De Gea are. We won't find balance unless we start playing our players in their natural role
Carrick is 33 and age is starting taking its toil. Blind is decent but he lacks physicality. Fellaini has that but he has very little else. Herrera would be a magnificent playmaker in a 3 men CM. Unfortunately there seem to be some kind of deal going on (its here were I criticise LVG), that we've got to play all our strikers concurrently, which kinds of sucks considering that
a) we cant afford it
b) 2 of our strikers are a way past their prime time
Ultimately I believe we can play much better then we currently are. Nevertheless let us not kid ourselves. We're at least 3-4 players away from even thinking of competing with Chelsea/City and the earlier we stop believing the hype surrounding our players the better.
Extract from a story during his first season with Bayern
That's quite uncanny.
More like damning. He obviously hasn't learnt from previous mistakes.
Well he was 90 minutes away from doing the treble that season.
I wouldn't take too much from his at Bayern as it seem to be very bitchy in the way it ended. There's hardly going to be a balanced view from neither side.
Other than some great passes by di Maria we've created no clear cut chance vs PNE in almost 60 min, he deserves time but hoe is this acceptable?
Rapidly losing patience with him and he's stubborn ways.
Thing is his team selection today wasn't really terrible, we should swap Falcao for Mata or Januzaj as soon as possible because he's not going to produce anything but other than that it's the exact team most would like to be out there. On top of that it doesn't really feel like the players aren't trying, they're trying much harder than under Moyes and they haven't lost faith in van Gaal. They're also very good players individually, what's wrong with this team is that there seems to be no plan, no tactics, just eleven players trying different things with nothing clear on their mind.
He's doing what the fans have been asking for today. Playing Herrera and pushing Rooney further forward. Plus he has dropped the 3-5-2.
So it's becoming increasingly clear that he just can't motivate the players and get the best out of his squad.
So it's becoming increasingly clear that he just can't motivate the players and get the best out of his squad.
You start to wonder if we've hit rock bottom or if it can get even worse than this. Our brand of football must be among the worst in the Premier League.
Edit: Of course when I say that we score
Edit: Of course when I say that we score
The first time this season United have turned a game around from a losing position. It was refreshing seeing VG switch things around, yes it was against Preston but damn is fellaini a real threat playing off the front man, which we should know that during his days with Everton
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Ironically Moyes didn't use Fellaini for that, I said it last season, I said let's get to the summer with European football but to do that Moyes should do what he did at Everton with Fellaini.
He probably feared the fans would turn on him but the thing is as much as people complain they will be satisfied as long as the results are there. Louis van Gaal really doesn't care and if anything people will compliment him for turning Fellaini's career around and even replacing Falcao so Fellaini could play as the striker.
Had Moyes used Fellaini and reverted to his Everton tactics he'd probably still be in a job, had he dropped RVP to the bench or replaced him with Fellaini and then Fellaini scores or helps create a goal I can't see anybody questioning the decision.
I don't know what the future holds for the player but I can't see him being played deeper, he might actually become a crouch style striker that essentially comes off the bench for the last 20 minutes.
He probably feared the fans would turn on him but the thing is as much as people complain they will be satisfied as long as the results are there. Louis van Gaal really doesn't care and if anything people will compliment him for turning Fellaini's career around and even replacing Falcao so Fellaini could play as the striker.
Had Moyes used Fellaini and reverted to his Everton tactics he'd probably still be in a job, had he dropped RVP to the bench or replaced him with Fellaini and then Fellaini scores or helps create a goal I can't see anybody questioning the decision.
I don't know what the future holds for the player but I can't see him being played deeper, he might actually become a crouch style striker that essentially comes off the bench for the last 20 minutes.
You're wrong or don't understand football. If we are winning games, then how is performances getting worse? Some of you just restrict the word performance to playing a certain style of football, its like there is no correlation with performance and result, which is where many of you get it wrong. Performances have improved despite not playing beautifully. If we're playing that style of football and not winning, you'll still complain.
Well, it's not simply a matter of us playing unattractive football. The latter is a matter of taste more than anything, although it seems to me most United fans do have a penchant for a more daring sort of football, not a safety-first approach, if you will. But it's not simply a matter of pure style.
We have looked largely disjointed and unconvincing. If we had looked significantly more solid whilst playing boring football, I reckon the outcries would have been fewer. The problem at the moment is that a certain doubt lingers over whether LVG knows what he's doing. Again, if we had looked solid if dull, this doubt would have been easier to dispel.
We have looked largely disjointed and unconvincing. If we had looked significantly more solid whilst playing boring football, I reckon the outcries would have been fewer. The problem at the moment is that a certain doubt lingers over whether LVG knows what he's doing. Again, if we had looked solid if dull, this doubt would have been easier to dispel.
He seems to be bumbling into the correct formula.
First he played 3-5-2 until the fans started chanting for "4-4-2". Then he played Rooney in midfield until the press started questioning him over it. And last night he seemed to make a point of avoiding the long ball despite having Fellaini up front.
All of those are good things, but it's like he needs to be criticised before he changes his mind on something.
First he played 3-5-2 until the fans started chanting for "4-4-2". Then he played Rooney in midfield until the press started questioning him over it. And last night he seemed to make a point of avoiding the long ball despite having Fellaini up front.
All of those are good things, but it's like he needs to be criticised before he changes his mind on something.
That is a very good point. I don't think there would be many complaints if we didn't look like fumbling across the line in most games. Despite all the possession, we fail to look in control of games. Plenty of times our midfield and defense goes completely missing, leaving De Gea to produce superhuman efforts to save our ass.
We don't do anything to compensate for that with our attacking play. The effort remains slow, labored and uncontrolled for most game.
The only positive under VG is that the players don't drop their heads and accept defeat like they did last season. We have graduated to draws.
You are dead on about Chelsea last year. i would argue we have the foundation of that team, but we lack the vision. I will explain...
Think you are being a bit harsh in a few areas, and I prefer a 4-5-1 but that is a minor issue but here is my take for what it is worth...
GK- We are loaded and hopefully keep DDG.
RB- McNair, Valencia, Rafael... honestly a bit disappointed here. Wish Rafael would learn to defend better as he is very dynamic going forward. Hope one steps up, but I would go with what we have here.
CB- Rojo is the only stud. I have hope for Jones but let's easily agree we need 1 WC CB.
LB- Love Shaw and for my money Young is the ideal squad player fitting in on this flank at mid or here.
CM- Seiously I would love to see us line up in a 4-2-3-1 with everyone healthy. Carrick and Herrera would start for me, one sitting and one with freedom. These two would keep the ball moving and find the killer pass. I know so many at United want that destroyer DM, but honestly look at the top European clubs Bayern, Chelsea, Real, Barca, most have a techniocally gifted DM with a little bite. Throw in Blind and Felliaini as the back ups and I have no idea why Rooney every lines up here. Just does my head.
Wings- Okay after ADM we have nothing proven at the top level. Now with Januzaj I see potential, but again easily agree we need at least 1 WC player here.
ACM- Mata or Rooney. Honestly depending on who we are playing and what would work best for us these two seem so simple. i like Mata here and Rooney in front but pick what you prefer.
Forward- As mentioned I like Rooney here. After that I would go with RvP and Wilson, I so wish Falcao had worked but if he is struggling with Preston this late in the season it is time to move on.
Thus when I look I see the spine of a very good team with two obvious needs. Here is what I would love to see with (backups)
------------------------DDG(Valdes)-------------------
McNair(Rafael)-New CB(Jones)-Rojo(Evans)-Shaw(?)
----------Herrera(Fellaini)--Carrick(Blind)-----------
New Wing(Januzaj)------Mata--------ADM(Young)
-------------------Rooney(RvP/Wilson)----------------
That doesn't look so bad does it?
I dont think that I am harsh at all. As said I believe that United has the talent to sit at third place comfortably. That's quite a team considering that the EPL is loaded and we're competing with two clubs whose got unlimited money
Apologies if I misunderstood but you said this...
and this...
So my perspective seems to be slightly different and better than yours. I think we are two players away and can compete, you think not... No worries
.19 games with one loss, third in the table
This.
13 wins, 5 draws, 1 loss. We're 3rd place, not far off 2nd and in 1/4 final of FA cup.
I think people underestimated the job Van Gaal has had to do after last season. He's come in late, he was left with a poor and unbalanced squad, he's had to contend with one of the worst injury hit seasons we've had in a whilst and most the players he's brought in are in there first season of the Premier League.
Despite his injury, nobody could see Falcao being so poor or Van Persie, after having a good world cup, playing worst than he was under Moyes.
I think the main aim for him is to get into the CL spots, yes we may not be convincing as we do it, but i don't care as long as we get there.
If we get into the CL, i think he'll have a second window to continue building his team, that's when we should judge him. At the moment, we have an obvious imbalance, i think most of our issues come from a unbalance in midfield whilst trying to protect a week back four. Get one or two midfielders in, a new back line minus a left back.
Personally i knew this season would be top four at all costs. Next season will be the judge.
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