United under LvG: verdict so far!

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I am not sure that Mourinho is more tactical than SAF. By tactics here, I mean Guardiola, Van Gaal, Wenger; managers whose attack follow a clear pattern. Setting up a team defensively is not a tactical achievement for me, it's more of a man management achievement in the sense that you have to convince talented players to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team.

They can shine individually too if it all works out, that's what the tactical discipline is all about. He's probably just very demanding, the amount of instructions and lessons, the focus, concentration etc. They look mentally a bit overstressed in matches sometimes.

You're absolutely right about the players post match interviews. I think that Van Gaal knows exactly what he is doing. The irony though is that this might mean nothing because of the nature of English football and English players. This super intellectual approach to the game is simply not English. Mourinho always makes the point that English football is so emotional which we as fans love but it also means that our players and fans are almost allergic to this less spontaneous approach. If you remember, even Barcelona -the best example of a methodical team to have ever played the game- have been met with more admiration than love in Britain. I am really excluding myself here, my favorite teams are the more spontaneous ones like ourselves in 99 or the late Dortmund team. However, I do realize that in order to create dominant power à la Milan 90' or the late Barcelona side, you need a much more tactical approach.

I think you're spot on. I understand a lot of people wish Ferguson was still in charge, but in my opinion a different approach was needed to really compete with the best in the world. Obviously there's something special about English football, otherwise Van Gaals players would have played much better by now. I don't think the intellectual approach and the spontaneity have to clash though, I think the intellectual approach should lead through training to make certain decision making second nature and therefore spontaneous. It's just not there yet, the players still have to think too much, and that's why they start their runs or pass a little to late. Just a blink to late means there's a yard less space for the player who recieves the ball.

 

[Borys]

@akash02 is the only one who cares about performances and is aware that one draw can take us out of top 4 (and right now it’s very likely result against any team to be honest), while the rest seems willing to ignore the fact we’re playing poorly because we are 3rd. I wonder what will happen once luck turns against us though.

 

[Escobar]

We've already played all the "tough" teams this season and only lost to city, whilst being down to 10 men and we were very unlucky then!

It's completely different now and if we'd be so much better, we would be further away in the League

 

[ScarleyUtd]

@akash02 is the only one who cares about performances and is aware that one draw can take us out of top 4 (and right now it’s very likely result against any team to be honest), while the rest seems willing to ignore the fact we’re playing poorly because we are 3rd. I wonder what will happen once luck turns against us though.

Not at all. Everyone knows we aren't playing great. But to put being in 3rd place and the unbeaten streak we've had down to luck is just stupid.

Remember the song from just a few years ago? 'We're shit and we're champions'? Parallels here.

 

[togg]

Well, at least LVG admits we are playing like shite, in so many words. Last season Moyes would have probably said we were pretty good against Burnley,,,,,

 

[Borys]

Not at all. Everyone knows we aren't playing great. But to put being in 3rd place and the unbeaten streak we've had down to luck is just stupid.


Remember the song from just a few years ago? 'We're shit and we're champions'? Parallels here.

Fortune played a big part though.

There’s a difference between playing shit and sitting on top and chasing teams. Usually when you play better football you get results. Van Gaal seems to be satisfied with our football though (more consistent line ups in recent weeks).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's completely different now and if we'd be so much better, we would be further away in the League

No it's not. We were in terrible form then too. In fact we only started looking half-decent after we started playing the strongest teams.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Fortune played a big part though.

There’s a difference between playing shit and sitting on top and chasing teams. Usually when you play better football you get results. Van Gaal seems to be satisfied with our football though (more consistent line ups in recent weeks).

Fortune equals out over a season, so no, it doesn't really play a part.

And I disagree there's a difference too. LVG knows how to win games, just like Fergie did, is what I'm taking from this. I'd love to see us playing good football – but we are third. It's weird, I agree. But I have faith because to win when you aren't playing well is a hell of an achievement.

How d'you work out he's satisfied btw? After practically every game he says isn't satisfied. The consistent line-ups are just a result of having less injuries.

 

[JohnDoe]

Just doesn't make any sense that he keeps harping on about how the team lacks balance, and then sets it up the way he does. I genuinely believe that most people on the caf could've done a better job than him in that department.

 

[Borys]

Fortune equals out over a season, so no, it doesn't really play a part.

And I disagree there's a difference too. LVG knows how to win games, just like Fergie did, is what I'm taking from this. I'd love to see us playing good football – but we are third. It's weird, I agree. But I have faith because to win when you aren't playing well is a hell of an achievement tbh.

How d'you work out he's satisfied btw? After practically every game he says isn't satisfied. The consistent line-ups are just a result of having less injuries.

Well, that’s exactly my point! We’ve been quite lucky so far but we can’t rely on that to get in the top 4 because in longer run it will equal. Therefore, we need to improve.

Less injuries=more options. If he wasn’t happy he could’ve changed something.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Play largely shite and safe as part of a rebuild and finish in the top four? Great as far as I'm concerned. Job done, roll on next season and a proper challenge with some proper football played.

Play unsafe with glimpses of grand things to come and finish outside the top four? Fair enough. I'll take it. I'm a patient man. And I don't mind a gambler, quite to the contrary. Fergie was a gambler too.

Play largely safe and shite and finish outside the top four? Well now, that's pushing it in my book. I would have to buy the notion that our players are actually so shite, in general, that we need to buy just about a whole new team before LVG can implement his ways effectively. And I don't really buy that. Plus, if it were true, we should've bought a couple of stop-gap players in January. We didn't and that is 100% on the manager. If he had declared a need for signings, he would've been handed Woody's gold card.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Well, that’s exactly my point! We’ve been quite lucky so far but we can’t rely on that to get in the top 4 because in longer run it will equal. Therefore, we need to improve.

Less injuries=more options. If he wasn’t happy he could’ve changed something.

We haven't been lucky so far this season. And we won't be lucky the rest of the season either, because it isn't a factor across so many games.

But, just for the sake of argument, I'd like to know why you think we've been lucky so far. It's interesting you point out the injuries. Because luck in that respect does play a part across a season. And we have been decidedly unlucky there haven't we. So it's even more amazing we're third.

If you want to maintain that we're third because we've been lucky then go right ahead. But it ain't so. The league table doesn't lie. You don't get to third by hanging up horseshoes.

 

[Theonas]

We haven't been lucky so far this season. And we won't be lucky the rest of the season either, because it isn't a factor across so many games.

But, just for the sake of argument, I'd like to know why you think we've been lucky so far. It's interesting you point out the injuries. Because luck in that respect does play a part across a season. And we have been decidedly unlucky there haven't we. So it's even more amazing we're third.

If you want to maintain that we're third because we've been lucky then go right ahead. But it ain't so. The league table doesn't lie. You don't get to third by hanging up horseshoes.

I agree with this 100%. I think a lot of people confuse playing well with playing sexy entertaining football. Apart from 3 or 4 games, we really didn't get anything more than what we deserved. West Ham is a good example, they were far from better than us but just because we looked unimaginative, people make it sound like we deserved to lose by 5. We have looked solid since the Leicester game, in control and comfortable in 90% of our games, we simply did not look potent enough going forward. That means we are an efficient outfit who is not lethal in the final third, a bit like Chelsea last year. Considering where we were last year, it's hardly a shock where we are now.

 

[pocco]

We haven't been lucky so far this season. And we won't be lucky the rest of the season either, because it isn't a factor across so many games.

But, just for the sake of argument, I'd like to know why you think we've been lucky so far. It's interesting you point out the injuries. Because luck in that respect does play a part across a season. And we have been decidedly unlucky there haven't we. So it's even more amazing we're third.

If you want to maintain that we're third because we've been lucky then go right ahead. But it ain't so. The league table doesn't lie. You don't get to third by hanging up horseshoes.

Of course we've been lucky. A lot of games we've been let off the hook by other teams missing countless chances. It's out of our own hands when the opposition gets chances, so we can count it as luck if they don't capitalize as they would have normally at this level.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Of course we've been lucky. A lot of games we've been let off the hook by other teams missing countless chances. It's out of our own hands when the opposition gets chances, so we can count it as luck if they don't capitalize as they would have normally at this level.

We've missed a lot of chances also. Everyone has. We had chances to win the game against Southampton for example and didn't take them. Teams miss chances all the time, even Chelsea.

You think luck puts you in third position?

 

[Theonas]

Of course we've been lucky. A lot of games we've been let off the hook by other teams missing countless chances. It's out of our own hands when the opposition gets chances, so we can count it as luck if they don't capitalize as they would have normally at this level.

But we also let teams off the hook. Leicester away, City away, Burnley away. You can even count Sunderland and Southampton at home there. We have been clearly lucky against Arsenal, Southampton and Everton I think. The rest I think your standard missed chances that every team more or less experience. Arsenal were the same against Leicester on Tuesday, City the same many times this season not to even mention Liverpool and Spurs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Of course we've been lucky. A lot of games we've been let off the hook by other teams missing countless chances. It's out of our own hands when the opposition gets chances, so we can count it as luck if they don't capitalize as they would have normally at this level.

That's ridiculous. We're lucky in every game we give away any chances that aren't converted? We give away chances in every game we play. Always have done.

 

[Fergus' son]

Progress has been slower than I would've liked but can definitely see progress. Think LVG will make the squad his own by next year, an opportunity Moyes wasn't allowed.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

That's ridiculous. We're lucky in every game we give away any chances that aren't converted? We give away chances in every game we play. Always have done.

Exactly. Everyone's got this idea that we are so much worse than every team now. And yet there we are in third. Laughable.

 

[red_devil83]

Progress has been slower than I would've liked but can definitely see progress. Think LVG will make the squad his own by next year, an opportunity Moyes wasn't allowed.

That's because Moyes failed to meet his contractual obligations

 

[Still ill]

Good stuff, lads. I too miss those halycon days when every team took every chance they got. That was proper football.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Good stuff, lads. I too miss those halycon days when every team took every chance they got. That was proper football.

 

[Fergus' son]

That's because Moyes failed to meet his contractual obligations

Yeah, probably right. Any manager that wants to enjoy real success with us will need to put his stamp on the team, our current squad was too finely tuned for a manager that had been with us for 25 years.

Moyes' was on the right track getting rid of the staff, should've got rid of more players instead of giving them a chance looking back now.

 

[red_devil83]

Yeah, probably right. Any manager that wants to enjoy real success with us will need to put his stamp on the team, our current squad was too finely tuned for a manager that had been with us for 25 years.

Moyes' was on the right track getting rid of the staff, should've got rid of more players instead of giving them a chance looking back now.

Partially disagree but that's off-thread. I expect LvG to suffer the same fate should he fail too. He's definitely improved our resolve and fighting spirit. The football hasn't improved much aesthetically from last year though. I am hopeful that will be remedied if/when he can further tailor the squad in the summer. Like you said, it's been a bit slow going though.

 

[Smores]

Common argument seems to be if he gets us top 4 then the football is fine, however I must admit I'm far from convinced that he is playing it safe for that purpose or that his tactics are more likely to get us fourth.

Also people are calling out objectivity that we can't expect to play like Barcelona straight away but the issue is we don't look like a team worthy of the champs league right now and there isn't any progress.

I still have some faith that his Methods will pay dividend but his short term impact has been negative for me considering the investment.

 

[Borys]

We haven't been lucky so far this season. And we won't be lucky the rest of the season either, because it isn't a factor across so many games.

But, just for the sake of argument, I'd like to know why you think we've been lucky so far. It's interesting you point out the injuries. Because luck in that respect does play a part across a season. And we have been decidedly unlucky there haven't we. So it's even more amazing we're third.

If you want to maintain that we're third because we've been lucky then go right ahead. But it ain't so. The league table doesn't lie. You don't get to third by hanging up horseshoes.

We got 9 points out of games vs Southampton, Arsenal and Liverpool- in each of them we shouldn’t be winning. It’s 9 points against our main rivals- that’s a big number if you take into consideration how flat the table is from 3rd to 7th. Even against Burnley I felt like we scored a goal against run of play (and they had at least 2 other good opportunities before).

We had a lot of injuries at the beginning and the results were poor- and I wasn’t that worried back then. Now it seems we’re doing much better, but only if you look at the table. If that’s enough for you than OK. But this can turn around in one weekend. And then suddenly people will realize how shit we’ve been last weeks.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

We got 9 points out of games vs Southampton, Arsenal and Liverpool- in each of them we shouldn’t be winning. It’s 9 points against our main rivals- that’s a big number if you take into consideration how flat the table is from 3rd to 7th. Even against Burnley I felt like we scored a goal against run of play (and they had at least 2 other good opportunities before).

We had a lot of injuries at the beginning and the results were poor- and I wasn’t that worried back then. Now it seems we’re doing much better, but only if you look at the table. If that’s enough for you than OK. But this can turn around in one weekend. And then suddenly people will realize how shit we’ve been last weeks.

You're missing the point. We all know we've been shit performance-wise these last weeks. Where we differ is you think we got third place by luck. I think it's more we have a guy who knows how to get results. When you look at his track record, also, I think I'm right. It is no different to Fergie winning the league with a 'crap' team.

And for those nine points there are other matches where we didn't get anything when we should have done – Spurs away for one. Btw we also deserved to beat Liverpool and I was at the Southampton game and they are overrated on that performance. They defended really well, worked their socks off and scored from the two or three chances they had. We were poor but we had no final ball and more chances to score but didn't. We deserved a draw from that game at least. So that argument doesn't stack up either.

 

[Empire]

@akash02 is the only one who cares about performances and is aware that one draw can take us out of top 4 (and right now it’s very likely result against any team to be honest), while the rest seems willing to ignore the fact we’re playing poorly because we are 3rd. I wonder what will happen once luck turns against us though.

Playing poorly yes but he is still doing what needs to be done to win games. As an example against Burnley he stated the team trained on set plays and in the match it worked, we scored twice from corners, Burnley were weak in this area and had conceded more goals from corners than any other team therefore he ensured his players were well prepared going into this game.

It is not due to luck that we scored two goals from corners for this reason.

The manager has more points than any other team in the last 15 games, these stats are misleading, our tough games are still to come but the point i'm making is that despite poor performances for quite a while now we have taken a lot of points, it is possible to still outscore the opposition if you take the few chances you get and you can increase the likelihood of this occurring by planning prior to the game to exploit opposition weaknesses.

You are right though, it could be luck, if he gets top four though after 38 games then it's not fair to say he is lucky. As of now who knows whether he is getting by on his planning and attention to detail or luck.

You do not need good performances to win games but they do help with that hence why he is rightly concerned about it. Also we will draw and even lose games between now and the end but so will our rivals, we just have to drop fewer points.

Anything is possible but all we can do is wait and see what happens.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

I think 4th means everything. 5th place and it will be a disastrous season. 4th will be seen as a success, compared to last year.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

It will be another interesting summer, that's for sure.

 

[Empire]

You're missing the point. We all know we've been shit performance-wise these last weeks. Where we differ is you think we got third place by luck. I think it's more we have a guy who knows how to get results. When you look at his track record, also, I think I'm right. It is no different to Fergie winning the league with a 'crap' team.

And for those nine points there are other matches where we didn't get anything when we should have done – Spurs away for one. Btw we also deserved to beat Liverpool and I was at the Southampton game and they are overrated on that performance. They defended really well, worked their socks off and scored from the two or three chances they had. We were poor but we had no final ball and more chances to score but didn't. We deserved a draw from that game at least. So that argument doesn't stack up either.

Well Burnley messing up their chances is their problem, nobody was saying we were unlucky against West Ham even though RVP had two goals he should have scored and Falcao another chance that should have hit the net.

Against Burnley we didn't create many chances but we created three quality chances that we scored from, the penalty obviously but the other two were corners. I can't say the manager got lucky when he trained on set plays prior to the match for the reason Burnley had conceded more goals from corners than any other side in the league, he targeted this weakness, he had a plan in place and that was executed by the players, they scored twice from corners.

Louis van Gaal has been doing this all season and it's that attention to detail and meticulous planning that is keeping him in the top four, of course he needs to find a way for performances to improve though.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

We'll finish fourth and spend f*ck loads in the summer again.

 

[golden_blunder]

Good stuff, lads. I too miss those halycon days when every team took every chance they got. That was proper football.

Great, I miss the days when we created chances through attacking

 

[vibe]

We'll finish fourth and spend f*ck loads in the summer again.

I'm sure anyone would take that if offered.

 

[Borys]

You're missing the point. We all know we've been shit performance-wise these last weeks. Where we differ is you think we got third place by luck. I think it's more we have a guy who knows how to get results. When you look at his track record, also, I think I'm right. It is no different to Fergie winning the league with a 'crap' team.

And for those nine points there are other matches where we didn't get anything when we should have done – Spurs away for one. Btw we also deserved to beat Liverpool and I was at the Southampton game and they are overrated on that performance. They defended really well, worked their socks off and scored from the two or three chances they had. We were poor but we had no final ball and more chances to score but didn't. We deserved a draw from that game at least. So that argument doesn't stack up either.

I’m not going to count all the games we’ve been lucky or unlucky but yes, considering how flat is the table, luck played a big part in our position in the league. Although I disagree with a lot of van Gaal’s decisions, I’m not saying his contribution is little (it isn’t obviously), that’s not the point. But I don’t think LvG gameplan is to create a few clear chances every game and hope to score, while DDG will do the rest. Because that’s how it looks like.

Playing poorly yes but he is still doing what needs to be done to win games. As an example against Burnley he stated the team trained on set plays and in the match it worked, we scored twice from corners, Burnley were weak in this area and had conceded more goals from corners than any other team therefore he ensured his players were well prepared going into this game.

It is not due to luck that we scored two goals from corners for this reason.

The manager has more points than any other team in the last 15 games, these stats are misleading, our tough games are still to come but the point i'm making is that despite poor performances for quite a while now we have taken a lot of points, it is possible to still outscore the opposition if you take the few chances you get and you can increase the likelihood of this occurring by planning prior to the game to exploit opposition weaknesses.

You are right though, it could be luck, if he gets top four though after 38 games then it's not fair to say he is lucky. As of now who knows whether he is getting by on his planning and attention to detail or luck.

You do not need good performances to win games but they do help with that hence why he is rightly concerned about it. Also we will draw and even lose games between now and the end but so will our rivals, we just have to drop fewer points.

Anything is possible but all we can do is wait and see what happens.

I agree with you, it's good to see his work bringing results. You can see a vast improvement in some areas, but overall our game is poor. My point is it doesn’t have to be that way, we have the players to play much better football. Right now it’s like boxing with one hand tied behind back.

I won’t call him lucky if we get top 4.

 

[Jammydodger7]

It's completely different now and if we'd be so much better, we would be further away in the League

How is it different? We were useless at the start of the season, Our 4 games before we played Chelsea and City were a 5-3 loss to Leicester, Two struggling 2-1 wins over Everton and West Ham at home and a 2-2 draw with West Brom.

 

[legball]

Well, that’s exactly my point! We’ve been quite lucky so far but we can’t rely on that to get in the top 4 because in longer run it will equal. Therefore, we need to improve.

Less injuries=more options. If he wasn’t happy he could’ve changed something.

It's not just "luck" that we are where we are, if you score more than your opponent, it's not luck, some of you need to get a grip. We need to improve, but we are where we are because the team has quality and is working hard , not just simply because they're lucky.

 

[legball]

I hate it when people simply put our achievements down to luck. It's a simplistic and lazy way to look at things, yes, luck plays a part in football, but there's a whole lot of other things like quality players, resilience, hardwork etc that contribute more. It's true that we're not blowing everyone away, but the sense of entitlement some of you have is beyond ridiculous, give the man a fecking break. He's 3rd and after what happened last season, every United fan to the last person accepted that a top four finish is the principal target, he's on course to achieve that, have played all the top teams and got decent results, yet, it's just down to luck and we'll run out of it very soon, I don't agree with that.

 

[pascell]

How is it different? We were useless at the start of the season, Our 4 games before we played Chelsea and City were a 5-3 loss to Leicester, Two struggling 2-1 wins over Everton and West Ham at home and a 2-2 draw with West Brom.

Add to that MK Dons smashing us 4-0, Yeovil making us look mediocre and Cambridge earning a replay against us. I think it's bewildering that people think money is the answer to our problems and that will turn us into a superior side. The problem thus far lies with the manager, not the team. We've won the league with a worse squad than we currently have.

 

[Borys]

It's not just "luck" that we are where we are, if you score more than your opponent, it's not luck, some of you need to get a grip. We need to improve, but we are where we are because the team has quality and is working hard , not just simply because they're lucky.

I'm actually tired of explaining that luck isn't the main reason, but an important factor.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Well Burnley messing up their chances is their problem, nobody was saying we were unlucky against West Ham even though RVP had two goals he should have scored and Falcao another chance that should have hit the net.

Against Burnley we didn't create many chances but we created three quality chances that we scored from, the penalty obviously but the other two were corners. I can't say the manager got lucky when he trained on set plays prior to the match for the reason Burnley had conceded more goals from corners than any other side in the league, he targeted this weakness, he had a plan in place and that was executed by the players, they scored twice from corners.

Louis van Gaal has been doing this all season and it's that attention to detail and meticulous planning that is keeping him in the top four, of course he needs to find a way for performances to improve though.

Agreed. It's what he's always done. He doesn't as yet have all the personnel he wants though. I also think he is still finding his first 11 – this fits his meticulous MO too I think. And the injuries hampered this process. Hopefully something will kick start performance-wise.