United in this Summer transfer window

Does anyone get the feeling that Fergie is still pulling the strings at United?

Moyes has mentioned that he has had numerous discussions with SAF and has been over to his house, is it possible that he is being advised on who to buy etc..
 
Kevin said:
It could turn out to be very shrew business by us to not sign anyone this summer. Let Moyes get to know the squad properly and then decide who he needs, no panic buys please.
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I fail too see how any of this summer could even remotely be considered as shrew.....

Not renewing the squad, not bringing anything new is standing still, and standing still is going backwards. If Moyes needs this long to get to know his squad and decide on which players to bring in, i don't know if he is the right guy for this job....He has had months !!!

I don't expect him to sign an entire new team, but a god damn midfielder would should have been the absolute minimum of transfer activity this season.

I don't want him to panic buy either, i wanted him to make two or three good additions to the team. He has had months, just like all the other teams, and he did absolutely feck all ! He wasted time going for players he could never get, offering derisory bids, upsetting the clubs, we are supposed to do business with and painting United as an absolute amateur club in the transfermarket.

I would appreciate if people stopped defending the indefensible. True, the transfermarket isn't closed and we may still do some business or we may not. Depending on that matter, i will make my final judgement about this summer, but so far, it has been one of the most annoying, frustrating, stupidest summers ever at this club ! There is absolutely nothing shrewed about that !
 
Don't pay much attention to what Kevin says, he just wants to be controversial. He's already said that he'd be absolutely delighted if United signed no one, it's bordering on ridiculous or even past it. Anyone who says they'll be happy with no signing will speak in a different tone if Carrick missed a couple of months and we struggle to win games at any point during the season.
 
NoArroJusBeta said:
I fail too see how any of this summer could even remotely be considered as shrew.....

Not renewing the squad, not bringing anything new is standing still, and standing still is going backwards. If Moyes needs this long to get to know his squad and decide on which players to bring in, i don't know if he is the right guy for this job....He has had months !!!

I don't expect him to sign an entire new team, but a god damn midfielder would should have been the absolute minimum of transfer activity this season.

I don't want him to panic buy either, i wanted him to make two or three good additions to the team. He has had months, just like all the other teams, and he did absolutely feck all ! He wasted time going for players he could never get, offering derisory bids, upsetting the clubs, we are supposed to do business with and painting United as an absolute amateur club in the transfermarket.

I would appreciate if people stopped defending the indefensible. True, the transfermarket isn't closed and we may still do some business or we may not. Depending on that matter, i will make my final judgement about this summer, but so far, it has been one of the most annoying, frustrating, stupidest summers ever at this club ! There is absolutely nothing shrewed about that !
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Agree with Moyes looking like an amateur so far regarding the handling of the transfer market with the backing of a big club, but what's happened happened. Now with one week left, it would be maniacal to dip in and panic buy.

Let us hope he has learnt from this summer and wait a year. If the lesson means a few trophies less/missed opportunity, then so be it, nothing to be done now after he went big for Thiago and Fabregas.
 
Kevin said:
Agree with Moyes looking like an amateur so far regarding the handling of the transfer market with the backing of a big club, but what's happened happened. Now with one week left, it would be maniacal to dip in and panic buy.

Let us hope he has learnt from this summer and wait a year. If the lesson means a few trophies less/missed opportunity, then so be it, nothing to be done now after he went big for Thiago and Fabregas.
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Thiago? Are we re-writing history now?

As far as I was aware, the manager picks his target, the chief executive sorts the financials. So if you need to direct your ire anywhere, it should be Woodward.
Moyes has expressed his desire for Fabregas, Baines and Fellaini. You may not approve of those targets, but it does not make him amateur.
 
Kevin said:
Agree with Moyes looking like an amateur so far regarding the handling of the transfer market with the backing of a big club, but what's happened happened. Now with one week left, it would be maniacal to dip in and panic buy.

Let us hope he has learnt from this summer and wait a year. If the lesson means a few trophies less/missed opportunity, then so be it, nothing to be done now after he went big for Thiago and Fabregas.
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Trouble is we didn't go big for either of them. We didn't even make a bid for Thiago and our bids for Fabregas were pretty laughable all things considered.
 
verminater said:
Thiago? Are we re-writing history now?

As far as I was aware, the manager picks his target, the chief executive sorts the financials. So if you need to direct your ire anywhere, it should be Woodward.
Moyes has expressed his desire for Fabregas, Baines and Fellaini. You may not approve of those targets, but it does not make him amateur.
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Funny because when you enter the woodward thread you see posts saying we do not knoq his role in transfers and for all we know Moyes might be pulling the strings etc.

I don't believe woodward is the only one who will determine how much money to bid (we have never worked like the continental business model of the likes of madrid and barca where one entity decides the transfers whilst the manager works with the players he has), this will be discussed with both moyes and the glazers, so the manager has definitely got a bigger role to play than you described.

To paint the picture that Moyes just hands woodward a list and sits at home twiddling his thunbs hoping things go alright and fabregas turns up wrapped in a box under his christmas tree with a note "25.3 million bid accepted!" from Woodward is naive.
 
I'll be pretty surprised if we sign anyone to be fair, there are only six days left in the window and given the pace of our transfer dealings so far I'd be shocked if it was enough to even make a final bid for someone. We realistically need two signings, a defensive midfielder who'd be a Carrick back-up and a creative partner for Carrick in midfield and we won't be able to close both deals in less than a week. We might make a final bid for Baines and Fellaini but I'd be surprised if we matched Everton's valuation seeing as our first bid was about £10m short of it. It'll be pretty disappointing and I cannot see better players becoming available in a year seeing as all top midfield talents have settled at big clubs already so we'll probably go through this sort of thing again in 2014.
 
Kevin said:
Funny because when you enter the woodward thread you see posts saying we do not knoq his role in transfers and for all we know Moyes might be pulling the strings etc.

I don't believe woodward is the only one who will determine how much money to bid (we have never worked like the continental business model of the likes of madrid and barca where one entity decides the transfers whilst the manager works with the players he has), this will be discussed with both moyes and the glazers, so the manager has definitely got a bigger role to play than you described.

To paint the picture that Moyes just hands woodward a list and sits at home twiddling his thunbs hoping things go alright and fabregas turns up wrapped in a box under his christmas tree with a note "25.3 million bid accepted!" from Woodward is naive.
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The manager definitely has a say in how much we offer for certain players, I agree, but from Moyes comments so far it seems that he leaves most of the negotiations to Woodward who in turn doesn't seem to have much of a clue about realistic pricing of players in football. The way we've behaved in the market this season is frankly baffling.
 
verminater said:
Thiago? Are we re-writing history now?

As far as I was aware, the manager picks his target, the chief executive sorts the financials. So if you need to direct your ire anywhere, it should be Woodward.
Moyes has expressed his desire for Fabregas, Baines and Fellaini. You may not approve of those targets, but it does not make him amateur.
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But as the former Everton manager he should be very aware of how important those two players are to their current squads and as our chief executive decided to forward a 'derisory' offer, Moyes would know first hand that the offer would have been rejected. It is quite late in the transfer market and there really isn't time to haggle the price. If we end up purchasing Fellaini for less than his clause then it would be good business on our behalf but if we end up paying more than £23m then that is extremely poor planning from the board.
 
QuackQuack said:
But as the former Everton manager he should be very aware of how important those two players are to their current squads and as our chief executive decided to forward a 'derisory' offer, Moyes would know first hand that the offer would have been rejected. It is quite late in the transfer market and there really isn't time to haggle the price. If we end up purchasing Fellaini for less than his clause then it would be good business on our behalf but if we end up paying more than £23m then that is extremely poor planning from the board.
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Everton would be mad to sell us Baines. Fellaini not so much because they could probably replace him with McCarthy in a few hours seeing as Wigan's valuation is below what they'd receive for Fellaini but they'd find it virtually impossible to find a left back good enough for this level in a matter of days and we shouldn't forget that Baines brings other qualities that'd have to be made up for if he left. No chance.
 
Kevin said:
Funny because when you enter the woodward thread you see posts saying we do not knoq his role in transfers and for all we know Moyes might be pulling the strings etc.

I don't believe woodward is the only one who will determine how much money to bid (we have never worked like the continental business model of the likes of madrid and barca where one entity decides the transfers whilst the manager works with the players he has), this will be discussed with both moyes and the glazers, so the manager has definitely got a bigger role to play than you described.

To paint the picture that Moyes just hands woodward a list and sits at home twiddling his thunbs hoping things go alright and fabregas turns up wrapped in a box under his christmas tree with a note "25.3 million bid accepted!" from Woodward is naive.
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Woodward revealed that under Sir Alex Ferguson, the manager’s transfer targets were brought to the Glazer family and then-CEO David Gill. The two parties would then discuss the transfer, and would always back the Scot. Now, Woodward wants that same policy to extend to the club’s newest Scottish manager, David Moyes.
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Maybe I am naive (though it is not something I've been accused of before), but is it any more naive to think it works like this, than to think Moyes is an amateur in the transfer market, or that he fecked up a transfer of a player(Thiago), who said himself, that we were never in for him?

Oh and that last paragraph make more of a cnut of you, than it does me.
 
verminater said:
Maybe I am naive (though it is not something I've been accused of before), but is it any more naive to think it works like this, than to think Moyes is an amateur in the transfer market, or that he fecked up a transfer of a player(Thiago), who said himself, that we were never in for him?
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"and would always back the scot" being the key bit here. It means that Ferguson always had a say anyway, if he felt they were fecking about, he could definitely influence the timing and general value of the next bid.
 
Sarni said:
I'll be pretty surprised if we sign anyone to be fair, there are only six days left in the window and given the pace of our transfer dealings so far I'd be shocked if it was enough to even make a final bid for someone. We realistically need two signings, a defensive midfielder who'd be a Carrick back-up and a creative partner for Carrick in midfield and we won't be able to close both deals in less than a week. We might make a final bid for Baines and Fellaini but I'd be surprised if we matched Everton's valuation seeing as our first bid was about £10m short of it. It'll be pretty disappointing and I cannot see better players becoming available in a year seeing as all top midfield talents have settled at big clubs already so we'll probably go through this sort of thing again in 2014.
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it is what it is, hopefully moyes and co are better prepared next summer.
 
How long does it take to prepare or even submit a bid....i'm being serious, do you have to go to the bank and discuss the possibility of raising finance and/or inform NYSE/Glazers by flying/faxing them?
 
Kevin said:
"and would always back the scot" being the key bit here. It means that Ferguson always had a say anyway, if he felt they were fecking about, he could definitely influence the timing and general value of the next bid.
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The manager is still an employee, and will have to accept that the board will have the final say. If Moyes said he wanted Fabregas, the board will back him, up to what they consider reasonable. They will not break the world record, just because he really wants him. They control the finances.
 
Nate Dogg said:
How long does it take to prepare or even submit a bid....i'm being serious, do you have to go to the bank and discuss the possibility of raising finance and/or inform NYSE/Glazers by flying/faxing them?
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I reckon they have to print it on official letterheaded paper that is provided by our officially letterhead provider... and said letterhead keeps getting jammed in the club printers (provided by our official printing partners).
 
Annihilate Now! said:
I reckon they have to print it on official letterheaded paper that is provided by our officially letterhead provider... and said letterhead keeps getting jammed in the club printers (provided by our official printing partners).
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Ahh that would explain it......i guess one of our many printer suppliers should step in and provide us with a new one!
 
verminater said:
The manager is still an employee, and will have to accept that the board will have the final say. If Moyes said he wanted Fabregas, the board will back him, up to what they consider reasonable. They will not break the world record, just because he really wants him. They control the finances.
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You are taking it to the extreme to support your theory. Of course they might have told Fergie to sit back and take a deep breath if he wanted us to bid 86 million for player x. on paper the board control the finances, but theory never mirrors how it works when put to practice. Ferguson will defin itely have been able to influence our bids and the level of aggression said player is pursued.
 
@Kevin
I have never stated that the manager has no say.
The final say will always be the boards, and they will determine the level of the bids.
I recall Fergie referring to arguments with Gill over transfers, and also identifying targets and leaving it to Gill to make it happen.
As I can't find reference, I don't expect you to blindly accept this, but it may help you understand why this is the direction I'm coming from.
 
Fabregas thread is locked now & I'm not sure if this is old news or not:



Fabregas never considered United move


Barcelona midfielder Cesc Fabregas says it is his "dream" to stay at the club and that he was never interested in joining Manchester United. The Premier League champions have been chasing the 26-year-old Spain international for much of the transfer window and are believed to have had several bids turned down in their attempts to prize him away from the Camp Nou. The former Arsenal man – who only joined the Catalan giants in 2011 – was rumoured to be unhappy over a lack of guaranteed first-team football. However, he has started both of Barcelona's La Liga matches so far this season under new coach Gerardo Martino and has now revealed that he dreams of playing with the club for the rest of his career. "I have never said that I could go, nor have I talked to the president or the coach about it," Fabregas told Spanish TV station TVE. "What I don't know is how this can be said to be true just because some journalist wrote it on Twitter. "My dream is to stay here and succeed. "I have a great desire to achieve even more and I am committed to this club and proud to be here."
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http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/fabregas-never-considered-united-move?
 
I never take anything a footballer or football manager says at face value because press relations are so carefully managed. However, in this case I believe it, basically because it reflects what I always thought his feelings would be. He is a Catalan and one of the world's best midfielders. So why would he want to be anywhere else other than where he is? His appearances havent been so scarce that he would want to give up fighting for his place yet. And even if they had, with a manager change he has a new opportunity to prove himself. He'd be mental to want to leave.
 
Not sure what I want for the rest of this transfer window now. Fellaini will be good I suppose. With Wayne Rooney probably staying, only Cesc or Mata can make me sit up and say wow. No other outstanding candidate IMO. Obviously Bale/Ronaldo is a whole different bucket (and highly unlikely).
 
We have 4 bloody days left. This is mental, if something doesn't start happening by this time tomorrow, the chances are we aren't getting anyone. The Internationals throw a spanner into the works as well.
 
Colin129 said:
Fabregas thread is locked now & I'm not sure if this is old news or not:
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/fabregas-never-considered-united-move?
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He will have definitely considered it as an attractive escape option, but once he received the assurances he requires the thought of leaving becomes a distant memory. And his superb form at the start of the season has confirmed he is more than happy.

It was never on, United's interest was used by Cesc to secure his future at Camp Nou. Plus if there ever was a chance to sign him openly in the future, I doubt United would be the only club to be interested.
 
walsh said:
We have 4 bloody days left. This is mental, if something doesn't start happening by this time tomorrow, the chances are we aren't getting anyone. The Internationals throw a spanner into the works as well.
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After all the big talk it has wound it's way down to the last 4 days and still nothing.

The thing is though, I'm not surprised in the slightest.
 
I know I shouldn't be surprised by now, but I really am. I genuinely can't believe we haven't signed anyone of note. It really seemed set for a big summer. A new manager who must surely be eager to make his mark on his new, big club; the club being seemingly very healthy financially; rival clubs strengthening in the player and manager department. And yet... nothing. At this point I'm not even sure we're going to end up with Fellaini, although to be fair I have always maintained that I would have been happy with that signing. That is to say, I would have been happy with Fellaini as a part of the transfer campaign, not as the sole acquisition (a young, virtually unknown, if promising, right back doesn't really count).
 
niMic said:
I know I shouldn't be surprised by now, but I really am. I genuinely can't believe we haven't signed anyone of note. It really seemed set for a big summer. A new manager who must surely be eager to make his mark on his new, big club; the club being seemingly very healthy financially; rival clubs strengthening in the player and manager department. And yet... nothing. At this point I'm not even sure we're going to end up with Fellaini, although to be fair I have always maintained that I would have been happy with that signing. That is to say, I would have been happy with Fellaini as a part of the transfer campaign, not as the sole acquisition (a young, virtually unknown, if promising, right back doesn't really count).
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Agree. Moyes and the club brought that expectation on themselves by saying we were going for the very best players and were willing to spend whatever was needed. If ever we were going to push the boat out on transfers, this was it. Hopefully we'll still pull off a surprise but I really can't see where it would come from.
 
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