Except we aren't just going to throw money around and sign people for the sake of it. Simply because we can't afford to just write millions of dollars in wasted transfers every season. I really thought people understood the way United worked in the market by studying their buying patterns in the last 5-10 years.
United in this Summer transfer window
- Thread starter LawCharltonBest
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Except we aren't just going to throw money around and sign people for the sake of it. Simply because we can't afford to just write millions of dollars in wasted transfers every season. I really thought people understood the way United worked in the market by studying their buying patterns in the last 5-10 years.
A few people (myself included) was unsure about Strootman after being linked with him for so long...I really wish we'd have signed him now. I bet he does well at Roma and moves on for about 25-30m in a couple of years.
We aren't going to sign a world class midfielder now at this stage, best case scenario would be buying a quality youngster that can add to the squad. McCarthy from Wigan would be decent, then we should spend the full fecking season preparing for a real world class midfielder to join next summer.
Another problem is most of our rivals have strengthened their midfield, City have replaced Barry with Fernandinho, Spurs replaced Parker with Paulinho and even Chelsea who have a decent midfield added V.Ginkel. We are going to find it harder to compete in that area than before, I feel we were already performing miracles with the players we have.
We aren't going to sign a world class midfielder now at this stage, best case scenario would be buying a quality youngster that can add to the squad. McCarthy from Wigan would be decent, then we should spend the full fecking season preparing for a real world class midfielder to join next summer.
Another problem is most of our rivals have strengthened their midfield, City have replaced Barry with Fernandinho, Spurs replaced Parker with Paulinho and even Chelsea who have a decent midfield added V.Ginkel. We are going to find it harder to compete in that area than before, I feel we were already performing miracles with the players we have.
Investing is important but I think you could also say that in the season they won the title all their main players played really well from the defence to the attack. Last season I would say a lot of players both at City and United under performed, namely; Aguero, Rooney, Nani, Silva, Valencia, Nasri, so there's a lot of scope for these players to improve even without the investment. For us, the purchase of Zaha adds some extra competition particularly as you can see the affect of his enthusiasm on the team, something you really get from the young players, likewise the emergence of Januzaj adds some extra competition. It would be unwise not to invest but as the squad as it is now, short of a Carrick alternative, I think it should be competing.
The team had been shedding away top quality talent with World class talent like scholes, giggs and ronaldo leaving/growing Old and less talented players like young, nani, ando and valencia joining in. Now its rooneys turn. Anyone thinking that theres no dip in terms of quality is deluded as best
We will probably compete but the risk of a meltdown is real. We cant keep losing quality players without top qualty replacement year in year out especially when the majority of our top quality players (giggs, evra, rio, vidic) are at tge wrong side of their career and their replacement are nowhere near as good as them.
I agree with the crux of your point. It highlights Ferguson's brilliance in a way, because we still kept on winning.
Nah that's a load of bollocks.
Shedding world class talent? Really. RVP only just arrived. DDG looks amazing. Wouldn't swap Rafael for anyone in the world and as much as I loved him, a massive upgrade on Wesley.
We've lost some good players, but we've gained others. We just dicked the prem last year FFS grow a pair.
Shedding world class talent? Really. RVP only just arrived. DDG looks amazing. Wouldn't swap Rafael for anyone in the world and as much as I loved him, a massive upgrade on Wesley.
We've lost some good players, but we've gained others. We just dicked the prem last year FFS grow a pair.
I know were perfect.
Youre right of course. Youre always are. Such a top red i envy you
Ddg was a massive upgrade on vds, rafael on gaz (at his prime) and rvp on rooney (2seasons ago). Not to forget that valencia, clev,ando, smalling and jones are better then scholes, giggs and ronaldo on their prime.
Absolutely vintage devilish. Fantastic post mate, really top notch stuff.
You fecking idiot.
Top top red indeed
Rafael is decent. But I wouldn't say, I wouldn't swap him for anyone in the world though. Positioning wise he still gets caught out. Very rash in the tackle and final ball is still hit and miss. Atleast with Wes you knew that you would get a 7 every game. Where as Rafael would give you a 8 or 3.
We've done what we've always done, which is lose established top class talents and replace it with potential top class talents. RvP was an exception to the rule. I'd say we're still in transition to the point where the squad is at it's peak.
Well meltdown might be a bit far but I take your point. Personally though would say in De Gea, Rafael, Jones, Smalling, Zaha, Januzaj and Welbeck there are immediate young players who can become big players for us and top class in their own right. Anderson and Clev might not ever become part of the first eleven but either of them would be a very good squad option to have,
Then in Evans, Nani, Valencia, RVP, Hernandez, Young, Carrick and Kagawa we have a core of players in their prime or entering it. I know Carrick is a bit older but we've seen players of his ilk really extend their careers in the position he already plays.
The older players who might be more effected sooner rather than later like Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Giggs, are still contributing well. We've not had the Giggs who was a flying winger for a number of years now and we've coped fine. Personally I would say that between them, when they play to their ability, Nani and Valencia have got the wings covered very well.
So for me there isn't much wrong with the team, I don't think we can put of investing in a midfielder much longer, particularly so for a Carrick alternative as at some point you'd imagine he might get a proper knock, however I think a creative player is more to allow us to compete against the very best rather than essential to us competing for the league, with the current teams City and Chelsea have, although that's no reason to stay static there.
The more immediate concern for me would be what happens with Nani and Rooney. I think these are two really important players for us, imo, with RVP our 3 best attacking players, they both had disappointing seasons but both can be massive over the season. Loosing them without getting a replacement would be a big blow. The team as it is now though for me has a lot going for it. It hasn't been great in pre season but personally I don't think people are really factoring in that we've barely seen any of the senior attacking players and been chopping and changing the defence a lot.
That's hugely unfair. Last season, Rafael added real consistency to his game, and the previous rashness was virtually gone. Rafael is already a better right back than Wes ever was.
Now we've got somewhere! A post that I can understand.
The basis of this post seems to be I'm a top red for suggesting that our side hasn't been "shedding away" top class talent.
Your argument seems to be amazing as it collects United players from the last 10 years and compares them to our players now. So when you compare RVP it's to Rooney (But only Rooney of two seasons ago), when you're talking about Valencia it's compared to Ronaldo and when you look at our right back spot it's Neville who Rafael has to compete with. I'm guessing that this time it's not the Neville of two years ago. But some random arbitrary point where Neville was fantastic and still in top shape.
If you look at a squad like United there is always going to be a lot of top players who leave, and there will always be top players still around. It's massively overdramatic to say we're shedding talent when we've lost no-one from last year (apart from a retiring bit part Scholes) and added a few very promising youngsters.
It's nothing to do with being a top red, it's all to do with being logical and rational when looking at our squad. And not a massive drama queen who worries about everything.
Its not bollocks at all. His core point is true.
Regardless of how highly you rate RVP, we've still lost Scholes, Ronaldo and Giggs(almost). That's 3 of the best players the club has seen. DDG replaced VDS who was our best goalie since Schmikes so nothing to see there.
Weve got some promising talent coming through whether they develop into world class articles remain to be seen. I have faith in kagawa stepping up however i cant see the likes of young or valencia becoming those special players capable pf taking united to the next level as ronaldo and giggs did. My point is weve been losing quality players year in year out. You dont lose players like scholes, giggs, ronaldo and rooney,replace them with ando and valencia and dont feel the pinch of it. No wonder moyes insisted on Fabregas
How things stand if the likes of zaha smalling, clev, kagawa and danny dont improve over last season performance then we will be in trouble
I'd say that is harsh on Wes. Don't think Rafael has done a better job than Wes did in 07/08. Wes had Ronaldo at times, who we all know wasn't interested in tracking back. Rafael has Valencia a lot of the times to cover him.
Wes was immense all the way through that season including the big games. Rafael at times lets himself down in big games. Lets people behind him far too many times. In the first half against Madrid away was shocking. And that's the type of performance people sadly judge on him. I think he's a decent RB. But he still has a lot to learn.
Brown had an unbelievable season in 07/08, for which he deserves an immense amount of credit. But he was also part of arguably our strongest ever team. Also, he was rarely left isolated in the bigger games - we frequently altered tactics to ensure that we had additional midfield cover to allow for Ronaldo to get away without doing any defensive work.
What quality players have we lost year in year out? Scholes hasn't been the player he was for a few seasons, his impact after returning from retirement came at a point where we had no one else to really partner Carrick apart from Giggs, with Fletcher, Ando and Clev injured. Moyes's search for a top midfielder highlights that he probably doesn't see Ando/Clev as the long term solution to replacing Scholes, it'll take time to find though and I don't think the overall team is so poor that we couldn't go another season without addressing it if we had too, although as like everyone else ideally I wouldn't want to.
As I said Giggs hasn't been the player he was in years, he's been an excellent squad player but not a core part of the team. The team that has won 2 of the last 4 titles and missed the other two by a point/GD has been based largely around Valencia and Nani out wide.
We don't know what will happen with Rooney, I agree if he goes we should be looking to bring in another top player but we also have brought in Kagawa who was outstanding in the German league and in RVP the best striker in the league.
There's always risk with young players stepping up but I think we have the right mix such that the onus isn't on the likes of Zaha, Smalling and Welbeck to immediately become top class, they have older established players in Rio/Vidic, Nani/Valencia, RVP amongst others to allow they to grow.
If I may speak on Devlish's part, I get the impression he's comparing the current squad to the 07-09 vintage.
Players growing old (giggs, scholes, vidic, rio), others leave (ronaldo) or get career threatening injuries (fletch). We were able to replace quality with quality in terms of rb and gk. Theres big question marks about the rest.
Well I certainly get where the worry comes from but that team didn't just happen, it takes time, time for players to grow with one another, to build the spirit etc and that's what we're doing. We have a great core of young players coming through, many of whom now have a few title fights and wins under their belts, thats the best core to a team. We've got established players who have constantly shown they're able to keep themselves motivated to fight each season. All the main parts of the team are there to challenge now and to be in a position to keep challenging.
We all accept there are areas of the team to improve, the midfield has need sorting out for a while and the wingers need a collective kick up the arse but aside from that I don't see where the problems are and I certainly don't see any problems that would stop us being able to compete for the title, whilst trying to build towards competing in europe again.
Agreed. I think we're in the middle of that process. A couple of CM additions and a year or two of further experience and I think we'll be on our way to seeing another great side.
Ok but as I said Giggs/Scholes haven't been in the team as the players they were for years now, they've been squad players for a good few years and yet we've stayed competitive. In defence we have Evans already who has proven he has the quality there, Jones and Smaling can be top class as well there, particularly Jones. Fletcher has been struck down but we've seen the emergence of Cleverley, and there's still hope Fletch will come back. As I said though it's not like Moyes is blind to the fact midfielders are needed, he's tried to sign one of the best around already, however bad the bid went.
To make it clear, Fulham board reveled that there was a bid at 3,5 mil for Dembele for a Premier League club, thought to be us. The bid was claimed deregatory.
yes it sad, basically we would hqve signed a better and fit.Anderson.
http://m.espn.go.com/soccer/story?storyId=1145286
Sorry it was 5 mil
Wow. I haven't heard this before. It's an unbelievably paltry bid for a player of his type, with PL experience. We do like a low-ball, don't we?
The 25 mil bid for Fiberglass falls into the sam category imho
Dont u see a dip in terms of quality when comparing the 3 cl winner team to this side? Which of the current players would be a first teamer in that side?
I understand weve got some promising youths coming through. However lets not get carried away. For example the defense look in shambles whenever rio-vidic are not there, cm is a big issue and the flanks have been dissapointing last season. Considering that chelsea/city has got rid of their sub standard managers and had improved, how things stand we need the majority of players to improve alot over last season especially if rooney leave. Im thinking of the likes of clev, ando, valencia kagawa and nani. If they dont do that then we will be in trouble
Agreed. It would appear, despite suggestions we could sign any player for a big fee, that we're not prepared to spend above what we consider the 'value' threshold.
I don't mind that we don't spunk money all over the place ala City, Chelsea, PSG, Monaco and Madrid, but I'd prefer that the club didn't make such public statements that get everyone's hopes up. The cynic in me thinks such comments are designed to boost ST sales.
No I agree the team isn't as good as it was in say 08, but it takes time to get back to that. Where do you go and find a like for like ronaldo? You don't you have to move on and find other ways and we've done that by evidence of the fact we've continued to win.
As for our players currently I would say in the case of Valencia and Nani plus Rooney is he stays, them being the players they were is no different to expecting Silva, Aguero and Nasri to be better this year. Last year was blips all round. Kagawa should be better placed to influence this season, when you bring in someone new to the league it always takes time to adapt.
Again with Clev and Ando neither are quality but I think we can win the title still with one of them with Carrick, but as I said it's not like we don't acknowledge the need to improve that area and it's something we're looking to do.
Devilish has literally played the "we're in decline" card for years. Let's look at Devilish throughout the ages.
2005:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how-many-is-that.98508/page-2#post-1854138
2006:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/no-new-strikers-to-arrive-if-rvn-leaves-fergie.121079/#post-2432613
2010:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/in-fergie-we-rust.311514/page-2#post-8775299
We're always in decline with you devilish. You're never happy!
2005:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/how-many-is-that.98508/page-2#post-1854138
2006:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/no-new-strikers-to-arrive-if-rvn-leaves-fergie.121079/#post-2432613
2010:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/in-fergie-we-rust.311514/page-2#post-8775299
We're always in decline with you devilish. You're never happy!
I don't believe the 5 million figure. Acutally I don't think we bid for him at all. Heck we payed more for Bebe!
Digging posts who are nearly a decade old. Top red material indeed. Honestly it humbles me. I never thought i am so important to deserve such hard work from your side. Now go get a life. U deserve it
