UK General Election 2015 | Conservatives win with an overall majority

How did you vote in the 2015 General Election?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 67 20.0%
  • Labour

    Votes: 152 45.4%
  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 15 4.5%
  • Green

    Votes: 23 6.9%
  • SNP

    Votes: 9 2.7%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 11 3.3%
  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Did not vote

    Votes: 43 12.8%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 4 1.2%
  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 9 2.7%

  • Total voters
    335
  • Poll closed .
We have 8 Ukip voters on this forum? Good God.

Who on earth would vote labour after the last mess they left us all with?

What specifically are you referring to here? Not the global economic crisis, surely?

However tarnished Blair's legacy (and I'm not a fan of Blair) or frustrating the inequality in virtually every first world power state (again, not a fan) this country is still far better off social for having a millennial Labour government. The Tories were still Putinesquely trying to ban the "promotion of homosexuality in schools" as recently as 2001.
 
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Wonder what will happen if the numbers mean that the Conservatives get the most votes, but a Tory/ SNP government is the only coalition that could logistically work for them.

Either a minority government, or some Labour/ SNP/ Lib Dem deal I suppose. Would be interesting at the very least.
 
Ah I misunderstood. Shame really as the Greens in parliament would be noisy.

It'd be nice to see them with some representation, and I admire some of their outspoken principles (actually probably agree with a lot of their ideas), but Natalie Bennett's interview the other day makes me think they need a while to grow and develop some more sensible, practical policies first.
 
Wonder what will happen if the numbers mean that the Conservatives get the most votes, but a Tory/ SNP government is the only coalition that could logistically work for them.

Either a minority government, or some Labour/ SNP/ Lib Dem deal I suppose. Would be interesting at the very least.

I could see a Tory minority in that case, with them relying on other parties to get stuff through. Labour have been voting similar to them in a few things lately anyway, so might not be too bad for the Tories.

Nevertheless though, I can't see a Labour coalition going down well if they don't have the most votes. Miliband's already struggling to not be seen as a joke, and being the PM if his party didn't even have the most votes will help his cause even less.
 
It'd be nice to see them with some representation, and I admire some of their outspoken principles (actually probably agree with a lot of their ideas), but Natalie Bennett's interview the other day makes me think they need a while to grow and develop some more sensible, practical policies first.

What did she say?
 
What did she say?

It's a couple of pages back. It's not really what she said, but that she was left unable to answer numerous question regarding funding with party policy, immigration, military, and just kept on deflecting and inviting people to look at their website. Again, I admire many of their principles and thought the whole Queen and council house thing was fairly funny and ballsy, but they're just not ready to be a major party yet. Hope they get some seats though, even if it's just a couple.
 
No point in a Labour govt that implements Tory policies (see Blair)
Capitalist lackeys of another colour.

If you're a millionaire or super rich then vote Conservatives by all means, because that's what they are for and what they clearly represent, much more so than Labour due to Union power. If you want to be a slave to corporations then vote for them as well.

As for


Torries privatised a boat load of massive industrial businesses such as British Steel, British Gas, British Telecom, British Rail etc etc and even now they fecking privatised the Royal Mail, and you can bet on what's coming next, that's right they will no doubt target health care and the NHS next. Just imagine now if Britian was in control of it's own Steel, Rail and gas right now, people maybe could actually afford gas bills and heating for their children maybe. The economy would be much better of as well. Other countries like Germany/Japan held onto their industrial businesses as well as car manufactures and thrived for the most part, they left Britian with nothing but it's financial sector to thrive on.

They have incredible short term thinking, especially back in the 80's and quite frankly have left this country in a much worse position than it should be in, Labour govt's inbetween certainly haven't helped the problem, but the main source spawned from those greedy torrie cnuts.
Labour can't lecture on privatization. They were obsessed with often disastrous PFI projects, the Railtrack debacle was under their watch and they set the ball rolling for the privatisation of the Royal Mail.
Obviously some privatisations under the 'greedy cnut torries' were poorly executed, but several did well for working class people who got the chance to buy share, eg British Gas.
BG, BA and BT are all in tough industries and least two of them have had to carry out right issues to survive- money that otherwise would have come from taxpayers.
You wish we'd held on to all of these, keeping the UK are a moribund economy propping up inefficient companies that strangle growth- see France and China.
As for Germany and Japan. The former is largely powered by a number of global powerhouse companies, eg Siemens, Bayer, BMW and Deutsche Bank, along with a strong range of well-run 'mittelstand' family-owned businesses. State enterprise influence low.
Japan is struggling to get out of a 20 year economic blackhole, it has the highest debt to GDP of any developed nation and some of its blue chip companies like Sony haven't turned a profit in years.
You are blinded by your ideology. Oh and don't mourn British Steel. Iron ore can be produced far cheaper abroad and prices have sunk to multi-year lows as Chinese growth slows.
 
Yeah but I would imagine a bunch of left wingers wouldn't put up with the Tories shit.
Big words but what do you actually mean? Is Caroline Lucas going to magically vote down Tory policy on her own? Check out that Andrew Neil interview. The greens are inept. Their leader can't answer basic questions on her own party's manifesto.
 
Big words but what do you actually mean? Is Caroline Lucas going to magically vote down Tory policy on her own? Check out that Andrew Neil interview. The greens are inept. Their leader can't answer basic questions on her own party's manifesto.

They would have very little to no power but what I'm saying is they would get in the faces of the Tories and basically be an irritation. I think the Greens will continue to evolve if/when they get bigger, I'll check out the Andrew Neil interview tomorrow.
 
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Come now, let's not pretend that there wasn't adequate justification to give Labour the heave-ho, even without the onset of the financial crisis.

Whilst googling for one of those very reasons, i came upon the following RedCafe thread on the first page of results: Gordon Brown's 10 worst financial gaffes.
 
They would have very little to no power but what I'm saying is they would get in the faces of the Tories and basically be an irritants. I think the Greens will continue to evolve if/when they get bigger, I'll check out the Andrew Neil interview tomorrow.
Watch the vid. Neil doesn't even have to try to rip her apart. Bennett is a disgrace as a party leader- even some of the green supporters in here were bemoaning her torpid performance.
If Geoffrey Howe was like being savaged by a dead sheep, a Bennett 'grilling' would be like being aggressively dive-bombed by a baby house fly.
 
Surely more worthy of a ban than saying feckitty-feck.

I'm usually a bit disappointed when the crazy right wing posters are banned. It ruins half the fun of the CE.

I'm aware of a couple of Farageophiles here, but 8 implies there are at least 5 (accounting for the WUM factor of one) who're viewing this thread but don't want to admit it, or get involved in a conversation. Doesn't bode well for the poll data if they've inhereted the Shy Tory Factor.
 
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Labour election chaos over NHS as Ed Miliband accused of running 'comfort zone campaign'

As both parties stepped up their election campaigns, the Labour leader’s efforts to put the NHS at the heart of his party’s strategy appeared to backfire

By Laura Donnelly, Ben Riley-Smith and Steven Swinford
27 Jan 2015


Ed Miliband’s attempts to make the NHS his key election weapon have descended into chaos after he was accused of running a “comfort zone campaign” and refused to endorse the shadow health secretary.

As both parties stepped up their election campaigns, the Labour leader’s efforts to put the NHS at the heart of his party’s strategy appeared to backfire.

At a speech in Manchester on Tuesday, he set out a 10-year plan for the health service. But within hours, he came under attack from party heavyweights, with the former Labour health secretary Alan Milburn accusing him of running a “pale imitation” of Neil Kinnock’s doomed electoral operation in 1992.

The leading Blairite said that Mr Miliband was sticking too closely to Labour’s “comfort zone” in its campaign, and was at risk of making “a fatal mistake” in its approach to the NHS, by failing to promise real reform.

The attack came as Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary, made a speech in London setting out the detail of Labour’s NHS plans. But he was left pleading for a place in a future cabinet, after Mr Miliband pointedly refused to say whether Mr Burnham would become health secretary in the event of a Labour victory.

In a further embarrassing slip, Alan Johnson, the former Labour home secretary, was revealed to have been discussing the depths of the party’s dark mood.

“Some of our colleagues think optimism is an eye disease,” Mr Johnson was recorded as saying at a fundraising event last week.

With the NHS set to take centre stage in the battleground between the major parties, Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, has offered a pay rise to more than a million workers, resulting in the suspension of major strikes across the health service which were due to start tomorrow.

The offer means that NHS staff earning up to £56,000 will receive a one per cent pay rise in 2015-16, with an increase of more than five per cent for the lowest paid. Officials said the costs would be paid by freezing incremental pay rises – a controversial system that gives staff automatic increases linked to time served – for those earning more than £40,000 during the year.

In addition, reforms will be made to NHS redundancy rules for the highest paid, capping payouts at £160,000 rather than the current £500,000.

The proposals agreed will now go to union members for consultation. They will affect more than 1.1 million nurses, midwives, ambulance workers, administrators, porters and cleaners.

The suspension of planned strikes, which could have badly disrupted NHS services at a time when they are under unprecedented pressure, is likely to insulate the Conservatives from attacks over their handling of the NHS.

The plans detailed by Labour promise 10,000 more nurses, partly funded by a mansion tax on homes worth more than £2 million, and a system combining health and social care, to keep more older people out of hospital.

Mr Miliband said the election campaign was “a fight for the future of the NHS” and suggested that a Conservative victory could leave the NHS “sunk by a toxic mix of cuts, crisis and privatisation”.

But the Tories questioned Mr Miliband’s sums, accusing him of promising the same money twice, having said in Tuesday's speech that the mansion tax would be used to cut the deficit.

Mr Miliband also said that he “honestly can’t remember” using the word “weaponise” to describe his party’s strategy of fighting on the issue of the NHS in the run-up to the general election.

The Prime Minister has said the use of the term was “disgusting” and accused him of treating the NHS like a “political football”.

Meanwhile, in an interview with the influential magazine Health Service Journal, Mr Miliband refused to promise Mr Burnham the post of health secretary if Labour were to win the election.

Mr Burnham has been in the shadow post since 2010, but has repeatedly come under fire for his handling of the NHS when he was health secretary before that – most notably for refusing a public inquiry into the Mid Staffs hospital trust scandal.

While praising Mr Burnham’s current work, Mr Miliband told the journal that his policy was “never to nominate anybody for government” because it suggests he is presuming victory or “measuring the curtains”.

The shadow health secretary was left making a desperate plea for the post, saying he hoped his “passion” for his policies and the 10 to 15 years he had spent working on them would give him the chance to deliver his plan. He told a press conference: “Of course I want to see these plans through – I’ve put a lot of my thinking and myself into them, it’s been a long process.” But he conceded that the decision would be made by Mr Miliband.

At the same time, speaking on BBC Radio Four’s World at One, Mr Milburn – who is credited with being a reforming health secretary during his tenure from 1999 to 2003 – raised fears that Labour was set to repeat the 1992 defeat, when a victory was widely expected. “I think the biggest risk for Labour on health, and indeed more generally, is that we could look like we’re sticking to our comfort zone but aren’t prepared to strike out into territory that in the end the public know any party of government will have to strike out into – which is to make some difficult changes and difficult choices,” he said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...accused-of-running-comfort-zone-campaign.html
 
The greens are irrelevant
Possibly post election every party is relevant as it may take for example a couple of green MP's snp MP's and Labour + Libs to form a majority...
My guess is the greens would side with anybody who would give them either an end to fracking or cancelling trident... it would depend how desperate for power any party was but I could see both conservatives and labour being moveable on fracking as its generally perceived in a negative light anyway. The SNP would probably side with anybody who offered anther referendum on kicking the jocks out (erm sorry independence for Scotland) and the libs will probably agree to anything to try to cling onto power/jobs/relevance.

the under over odds are very interesting
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1195292
Basically they expect:
Labour to win 284
Conservatives to win 283
SNP to win 33
Liberals to win 27
UKIP to win 7
Others to win 16 (DUP, Sinn Fein, Greens, Plaid Cymru, etc)

With 650 seats you need 326 for a majority so no two party coalition would have enough other than Lab-Con which seems unlikely

Personally I expect UKIP to do better than paddy powers odds suggest so I might have a flutter on that but a three party (lab lib snp) or more coalition seems possible as does the other possibility of a minority government - though lets be honest neither are likely to last five years - especially a minority government.

Its hard to see who the conservatives could stitch a majority together though unless UKIP storms it and makes its gains in non conservative seats because trying to hold the libs and ukip together (plus potentially DUP and greens) with coherant policies will probably be impossible
 
I'm usually a bit disappointed when the crazy right wing posters are banned. It ruins half the fun of the CE.

Exactly. Not that they're too crazy (always seems to be the Americans on here), but we should bring back Al and Brian for the election.
 
Minority government or a coalition with a very narrow term of reference, then back to the electorate within 18-24 months. One of the Tories or Labour will attempt to break out of this cycle of hung parliaments.
 
Come now, let's not pretend that there wasn't adequate justification to give Labour the heave-ho, even without the onset of the financial crisis.

Whilst googling for one of those very reasons, i came upon the following RedCafe thread on the first page of results: Gordon Brown's 10 worst financial gaffes.
Oh yeah, rubbish from the Murdoch press complaining about taxing the rich
 
I don't like either but at least the Tories didn't take us into an illegal war.

Yes they did. They voted for it. All parliament has to andswer for that. Only lib dems of main parties didnt all vote for it.

in fact, if memory serves (someone else can look this up) the tories voted for it in a higher proportion than labour mp's did. I.e, if all tories had voted no, the bill wouldnt have passed
 
Yes they did. They voted for it. All parliament has to andswer for that. Only lib dems of main parties didnt all vote for it.

in fact, if memory serves (someone else can look this up) the tories voted for it in a higher proportion than labour mp's did. I.e, if all tories had voted no, the bill wouldnt have passed

I tried a quick search and it's not too clear. I want to find out so will look again, properly later
 
I tried a quick search and it's not too clear. I want to find out so will look again, properly later
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/18/iraq.iraq6
It seems that the vote was carried 412 to 149 (of the 149 who voted against 83 were believed to be labour mp's voting against their own leadership - yes over half of the MP's who voted against the invasion were Labour)
The make up of the parliament at the time was
Lab 413
Cons 166
Libs 52
Ulster Unionists 6
SNP 5
DUP 5
Plain Cymru 4
Sinn Fein 4 (though I dont think sinn fein actually took up their seats)
Helath concern 1
Take away the 83 rebels and that leaves 330 labour MP's so even if all the other partys had voted against Labour would have still had a majority (just - assuming full turn out and no abstentions) but clearly a large number of other MP's voted with the government on this
More disturbingly for me only 561 votes were actuallt cast from a total possible 656 - now that's a lot of people abstaining
 
I was talking more about the splurge in the good years. Darling did a decent job tbf though in '08.
QE was Bank of England not government anyway. Don't forget Brown's raid on pensions. They are not the party of the people.

What raid on pensions? All he did was tax them at a more reasonable level
 
Possibly post election every party is relevant as it may take for example a couple of green MP's snp MP's and Labour + Libs to form a majority...
My guess is the greens would side with anybody who would give them either an end to fracking or cancelling trident... it would depend how desperate for power any party was but I could see both conservatives and labour being moveable on fracking as its generally perceived in a negative light anyway. The SNP would probably side with anybody who offered anther referendum on kicking the jocks out (erm sorry independence for Scotland) and the libs will probably agree to anything to try to cling onto power/jobs/relevance.

the under over odds are very interesting
http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/uk-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1195292
Basically they expect:
Labour to win 284
Conservatives to win 283
SNP to win 33
Liberals to win 27
UKIP to win 7
Others to win 16 (DUP, Sinn Fein, Greens, Plaid Cymru, etc)

With 650 seats you need 326 for a majority so no two party coalition would have enough other than Lab-Con which seems unlikely

Personally I expect UKIP to do better than paddy powers odds suggest so I might have a flutter on that but a three party (lab lib snp) or more coalition seems possible as does the other possibility of a minority government - though lets be honest neither are likely to last five years - especially a minority government.

Its hard to see who the conservatives could stitch a majority together though unless UKIP storms it and makes its gains in non conservative seats because trying to hold the libs and ukip together (plus potentially DUP and greens) with coherant policies will probably be impossible
A three party coalition? Crikey. Is there a limit on the number of parties in a coalition? If not there should be.
 
A three party coalition? Crikey. Is there a limit on the number of parties in a coalition? If not there should be.
no limit.
If I was to guess Id say a three party coalition or a minority government is the most likley outcome based on current forecasts - but who knows what a good (or bad debate) could do for the greens or UKIP
I have a feeling whatever happens it wont last for long and we will be back at the polls by 2016 - probably with Boris as leader of the conservatives isnt that a scary thought

Boris-ball.jpg
 
I tried a quick search and it's not too clear. I want to find out so will look again, properly later
Thanks, i could be thinking of a completely different bill but i rember it as i was doing a politics degree at the time so took thiscstuff seriously
 
Ok think have found something. 217 mps voted against the invasion. 140 from labour (not including 2 abstains).

Tory party line was to vote with the govt with just 15 going against.

i cant find lib dem vote but i believe all but one voted against
 
Ok think have found something. 217 mps voted against the invasion. 140 from labour (not including 2 abstains).

Tory party line was to vote with the govt with just 15 going against.

i cant find lib dem vote but i believe all but one voted against
no that was on the rebel amendment basically saying they wanted to see more evidence before having the proper vote.
that and the proper vote which was the actual vote on the invasion are covered in the article I posted above
 
What raid on pensions? All he did was tax them at a more reasonable level
:lol:'Tax them at a more reasonable level'? The whole idea of incentivising people to save for their retirement and not be reliant on the state is to offer tax incentives. Brown's taxation of dividends has creamed about £120bn from defined benefit schemes- the overall deficit of DB schemes is about £170bn. If he hadn't done that, a lot more of these schemes would be open enabling people to retire much more comfortably. I'm not talking about the super-rich either, just every day workers. Brown out-Tory-ed the Tories with that one.
 
Come now, let's not pretend that there wasn't adequate justification to give Labour the heave-ho, even without the onset of the financial crisis.

Whilst googling for one of those very reasons, i came upon the following RedCafe thread on the first page of results: Gordon Brown's 10 worst financial gaffes.
Thought the selling of the gold argument had long been dispelled. Interesting blog on it if you haven't read it.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/financ...own-sold-britains-gold-at-a-knock-down-price/
 
:lol:'Tax them at a more reasonable level'? The whole idea of incentivising people to save for their retirement and not be reliant on the state is to offer tax incentives. Brown's taxation of dividends has creamed about £120bn from defined benefit schemes- the overall deficit of DB schemes is about £170bn. If he hadn't done that, a lot more of these schemes would be open enabling people to retire much more comfortably. I'm not talking about the super-rich either, just every day workers. Brown out-Tory-ed the Tories with that one.
They really wouldn't - I used to work for a leading insurance company running numbers such as how much it will cost clients companys in extra pension contrubutions if they find a cure for cancer etc
Trust me its about de-risking - that's why its happened around the world in companies that offered this type of scheme regardless of the tax regime
 
Thought the selling of the gold argument had long been dispelled. Interesting blog on it if you haven't read it.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/financ...own-sold-britains-gold-at-a-knock-down-price/

No, i hadn't read that before, thanks for the link.

I thought that the following paragraphs provided a particularly accurate summary of events, albeit regrettably so.

The crash which began in 2007 and endures still was the result of an abdication of responsibility across the financial sector. This abdication ranged from the consumer whose thirst for goods pushed him beyond into grave debt to a government whose lust for popularity encouraged it to do the same.

Responsibility is evaded by all bar those on whose shoulders it ought to rest. The gold panic of 1999 was expensively paid for by the British public. The one thing politicians ought to have bought with that money was a lesson in the structural restraints which needed to be placed on banks now that the principle that they were ultimately public liabilities had been established.

It was a lesson which could have acted to restrain all players in the credit market boom of the 2000s. It was a lesson which nobody learnt.
 
They really wouldn't - I used to work for a leading insurance company running numbers such as how much it will cost clients companys in extra pension contrubutions if they find a cure for cancer etc
Trust me its about de-risking - that's why its happened around the world in companies that offered this type of scheme regardless of the tax regime
Appreciate that firms don't want open-ended liabilities, but I think a few paternalistic companies actually might have kept them open, eg John Lewis has. You could argue the implementation of the tax was a contributory factor in many companies accelerating their closure plans though (along with the 2000-2003 bear market, over-allocation to equities etc...)
 
No, i hadn't read that before, thanks for the link.

I thought that the following paragraphs provided a particularly accurate summary of events, albeit regrettably so.
Yep, greed overrides the lessons of the past again. Interesting that its the Telegraph actually defending Brown, as it were. Am surprised they got (mining magnate) Peter Hambro on the record in it too.
 
Appreciate that firms don't want open-ended liabilities, but I think a few paternalistic companies actually might have kept them open, eg John Lewis has. You could argue the implementation of the tax was a contributory factor in many companies accelerating their closure plans though (along with the 2000-2003 bear market, over-allocation to equities etc...)
As I say I worked around the world buying these schemes liabilities off employers throughout UK Europe and USA - all had different tax legislation and that was never really at the forefront of what were typically deals in the £10,000,000 - £100,000,000 range though sometimes more, it was always about de-risking and typically that driver was demographics and specifically the increase in living age (plus the long term reduction in guilt yields which is what typically backed the annuity they brought at the end was probably the second driving factor as the combination of the two was leading to quite a spike in costs).
By the way many american companies we looked at were in a far worse state than their English counterparts as there was not the same oversight of the schemes meaning that some had far bigger "black holes" in them - particularly companies which had downsized so now had quite a small workforce in comparison to their potential pension liabilities and we walked away from the vast majority of those deals
 
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/18/iraq.iraq6
It seems that the vote was carried 412 to 149 (of the 149 who voted against 83 were believed to be labour mp's voting against their own leadership - yes over half of the MP's who voted against the invasion were Labour)
The make up of the parliament at the time was
Lab 413
Cons 166
Libs 52
Ulster Unionists 6
SNP 5
DUP 5
Plain Cymru 4
Sinn Fein 4 (though I dont think sinn fein actually took up their seats)
Helath concern 1
Take away the 83 rebels and that leaves 330 labour MP's so even if all the other partys had voted against Labour would have still had a majority (just - assuming full turn out and no abstentions) but clearly a large number of other MP's voted with the government on this
More disturbingly for me only 561 votes were actuallt cast from a total possible 656 - now that's a lot of people abstaining

Thanks!