UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%

  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%

  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%

  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%

  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%

  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%

  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%
  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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villain said:
I currently pay the higher rate tax band right now, and have the option of emigrating to the US through my work and paying a lower rate if I wish to do so.

I’m very happy to remain in the UK. I earn enough to buy a house, pay my bills and pay for my lifestyle, and put money aside for savings. Any extra money I would save through a lower tax at this point would add very little value to my life, and I’d spend it on more material things probably.

But anecdotal stories don’t mean much, nor does listing a handful of random high profile celebs - if the insinuation is that millionaires & billionaires emigrate out of a country due to high taxes - it should be pretty straight forward to find that data, no?
Otherwise what’s the point in making the statement at all if you can’t find it to be true?

Also the 83% was a nod at someone who insinuated a ridiculous hypothetical where doctors were paying that much in tax. Nobody in this country is losing 83% of their income through tax, it’s absurd.
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I suppose congrats on being sufficiently financially positioned. In 2019, it is a genuine achievement for anyone under 40 years old.

Not sure anyone has the numbers for how many ' rich ' people have left the UK for Tax reasons - if I ever find one, I'll post it.

My generation have been incredibly lucky - not because it was given to us, but sufficient ' things ' aligned to make it possible for those who wanted it enough and worked hard enough to get it.

Unfortunately, my generation also remember the appalling Labour Governments of the 60s and 70s who were financially catastrophic and will never forgive people like Wilson, Callaghan and Foot for helping to make the UK ' The Sick Man of Europe '. I suppose that's why so many older people vote Conservative - not a love of Conservative idealism, but the memories and fear of how a series Left Wing Labour Governments almost ruined the UK feconomy forever.

And Corbyn and McDonell are threatening a return of that chaos just at a time when the UK will need everything to go in its favour post-Brexit. It would be madness.

And the 83%. Peanuts. We also remember a Labour Government which imposed 98% marginal tax rates.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...s-haunted-by-the-sound-of-squeaking-pips.html
 
SteveJ said:
Matthew Parris, the Times columnist and former Conservative MP who's quitting the party, just doesn't get it:
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I think in general there has to be an acceptance that as a public official of that nature you will get abuse as part of the job. Obviously death threats are way past that but the threshold and tolerance should be a bit higher for general trolling in my own opinion given the role.
 
Farage of all people has with his challenge to Boris, thrown a life line to Labour and Lib Dems, get your acts together and you just might get something out of the election.
A lot of fuss has been made about tactical voting as though it was something new, but in a first past the post system many people always apply their vote tactically, those Tories living in strong Labour constituencies and Labour voters in tory ones have always voted tactically. I suppose its an attempt to orchestrate such voting that maybe be new, and the use of social media for spreading the news and issuing the clarion call to vote, not for what you want, but to prevent what you don't want... suppose there is some logic in there somewhere, but be careful what you wish for!
 
Jippy said:
The team isn't the area, but most of East London is a Labour shithole. They might have a few more vocal Brexit Party types, although we'll defo have a good few shy ones lurking in the shadows.
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You leave East London alone.

West Ham fans are the ex-cockneys who moved out to Essex. Definitely a Brexit/ Tory demographic in 2019.
 
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Maticmaker said:
Farage of all people has with his challenge to Boris, thrown a life line to Labour and Lib Dems, get your acts together and you just might get something out of the election.
A lot of fuss has been made about tactical voting as though it was something new, but in a first past the post system many people always apply their vote tactically, those Tories living in strong Labour constituencies and Labour voters in tory ones have always voted tactically. I suppose its an attempt to orchestrate such voting that maybe be new, and the use of social media for spreading the news and issuing the clarion call to vote, not for what you want, but to prevent what you don't want... suppose there is some logic in there somewhere, but be careful what you wish for!
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By not standing he essentially made his brexit bots to vote for Tory. He knows few will actually vote for BP without possibility of him getting elected.
 
finneh said:
In aid of not wanting my Friday night to descend into political back and forth I'll ask one question: did you believe Tony Blair between 1997 - 2004 enacted a series of austerity policies that saw spend to GDP lower than its current levels?

Or is it that the slow acceleration of spend is seen as progressive, whereas returning to historically high spend after a recesssion is seen as regressive? If the latter would the Tories be seen more progressively had they slashed spend to 34% in 2010 and creeped it up by 0.5% ever year to current spend today?
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If in 1992 we only had 50 coffins for 75 people and by 2008 we managed to provide 120 coffins for 140 people then the situation can be said to have improved. If, however, it then turns out that by 2019 we have 130 coffins for 200 people then the situation can be said to have regressed.

This is really simple stuff Finneh.
 
Full bodied red said:
I suppose congrats on being sufficiently financially positioned. In 2019, it is a genuine achievement for anyone under 40 years old.

Not sure anyone has the numbers for how many ' rich ' people have left the UK for Tax reasons - if I ever find one, I'll post it.

My generation have been incredibly lucky - not because it was given to us, but sufficient ' things ' aligned to make it possible for those who wanted it enough and worked hard enough to get it.

Unfortunately, my generation also remember the appalling Labour Governments of the 60s and 70s who were financially catastrophic and will never forgive people like Wilson, Callaghan and Foot for helping to make the UK ' The Sick Man of Europe '. I suppose that's why so many older people vote Conservative - not a love of Conservative idealism, but the memories and fear of how a series Left Wing Labour Governments almost ruined the UK feconomy forever.

And Corbyn and McDonell are threatening a return of that chaos just at a time when the UK will need everything to go in its favour post-Brexit. It would be madness.

And the 83%. Peanuts. We also remember a Labour Government which imposed 98% marginal tax rates.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...s-haunted-by-the-sound-of-squeaking-pips.html
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For no generation, including yours, has it ever been possible for every single person to have an equal chance to, as you say "make it possible for those who wanted it enough and worked hard enough to get it.". You cannot extrapolate your experience and assume it applies to every other person in the UK of your generation.

It is such a dangerous myth.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
For no generation, including yours, has it ever been possible for every single person to have an equal chance to, as you say "make it possible for those who wanted it enough and worked hard enough to get it.". You cannot extrapolate your experience and assume it applies to every other person in the UK of your generation.

It is such a dangerous myth.
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Of course not.

I was merely pointing out that it was much more possible for a greater majority of us to have achieved financial sufficiency and independence by 40 years of age than it is now.

As for ' every single person ' - did I say that ?? Of course I didn't.

Those born into squalor never did and never will have the chance.

Those born in 3rd World countries, in the slums of West Africa and the Indian Sub-Continent, never did and never will have the chance

We can argue for the next 50 years the reasons for the squalor if that's what you want, but we don't need to argue about what it does and what it denies to people.
 
Full bodied red said:
Of course not.

I was merely pointing out that it was much more possible for a greater majority of us to have achieved financial sufficiency and independence by 40 years of age than it is now.

As for ' every single person ' - did I say that ?? Of course I didn't.

Those born into squalor never did and never will have the chance.

Those born in 3rd World countries, in the slums of West Africa and the Indian Sub-Continent, never did and never will have the chance

We can argue for the next 50 years the reasons for the squalor if that's what you want, but we don't need to argue about what it does and what it denies to people.
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Ok, so if its accepted that people are born into various situations. To use a racing analogy, where some are born at the start line, some are behind the start line and others are starting with a 1000 metre advantage, surely it makes sense to try to redress the balance?
 
TheReligion said:
I think in general there has to be an acceptance that as a public official of that nature you will get abuse as part of the job. Obviously death threats are way past that but the threshold and tolerance should be a bit higher for general trolling in my own opinion given the role.
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Many of these people are threatened simply on account of them being women; women with opinions and authority, no less. And I doubt many male MPs get threatened with rape.
 
Rolandofgilead said:
I'm tentatively predicting a tory/Brexit party coalition. The only thing i am sure of is that The Tories and their media friends will hammer Corbyn over the next couple of months. They will throw everything at him and they won't let a little thing like truth get in the way.

Having said that, he does tend to bring it on himself. I actually agree with an awful lot of what he stands for, but he has this really annoying tendency to put himself in a position that leaves him open for criticism and abuse and the people eat it up.
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I hope you are wrong. If the Brexit party get into government even as minority in an alliance we are in for a very hard Brexit.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I hope you are wrong. If the Brexit party get into government even as minority in an alliance we are in for a very hard Brexit.
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Where would the brexit party actually take seats? It strikes me as the same as UKIP of a few years ago (can’t remember which election) where they got a decent percentage of the overall votes, but ended up with about 2 seats. It doesn’t put them in a good position for form a coalition. Are there any constituencies where they are actually favourites to get a seat?
 
T00lsh3d said:
Where would the brexit party actually take seats? It strikes me as the same as UKIP of a few years ago (can’t remember which election) where they got a decent percentage of the overall votes, but ended up with about 2 seats. It doesn’t put them in a good position for form a coalition. Are there any constituencies where they are actually favourites to get a seat?
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I don't know. 2 years ago people thought that Labour and the Tories were going to deliver Brexit so UKIP was irrelevant. 2 years on and we are no closer to leaving than we were the morning after the referendum that might give the Brexit Party some relevance. I hope not but I have no idea how this election will unfold.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Where would the brexit party actually take seats? It strikes me as the same as UKIP of a few years ago (can’t remember which election) where they got a decent percentage of the overall votes, but ended up with about 2 seats. It doesn’t put them in a good position for form a coalition. Are there any constituencies where they are actually favourites to get a seat?
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Ashfield and bassetlaw would be 2 seemingly realistic options

Traditional labour constituency but around 70% leave and both ex mining areas and some reluctance amongst some people to vote conservative

Both current MP's standing down I think John Mann and Gloria Di perio

I find it hard to imagine more than a handful of MP's but as we saw with the dup... Few MPs can make a big difference

Especially when we have to say in summer 2020 if we want to extend the free trade negotiations
 
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Fluctuation0161 said:
Ok, so if its accepted that people are born into various situations. To use a racing analogy, where some are born at the start line, some are behind the start line and others are starting with a 1000 metre advantage, surely it makes sense to try to redress the balance?
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Of course it does make sense.

But raising taxes for the ' rich ' in the UK won't help the people who need the most help in the slightest.

Labour's starting point should be a ' Turnover Tax ' on multinationals so that the Starbucks, Amazons, E-Bays of the world pay tax on their revenue in the UK and NOT on their alleged profits in the UK which can basically be manipulated to whatever profit the Corporate HQ in USA or Germany or wherever want.

We have something similar here - several different Corporate Taxes and Employer Social Security Contributions are based on Turnover, not profit, of about 0.5% or 1.0%, and if we are to believe the politicos, it's far more effective than a staright, increase in basic Corporate Tax rates on the alleged profits of the French subsidiaries of these multinationals.

Instead, Labour use the promise of tax increases for the ' rich ' just as a vote winner because it appeals to anyone with more conscience than understanding of the problem.

The 3rd World poor ?? No idea how they can be lifted out of squalor - there's simply way too many of them and too much corruption that ends up with much of the aid which is already sent to help but ends up in bank accounts in Grand Cayman.

Don't get me wrong - I'm more than happy and grateful that I was born where I was, when I was, and hate to see the financial struggles which are now everyday problems for too many of the generations after me.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Where would the brexit party actually take seats? It strikes me as the same as UKIP of a few years ago (can’t remember which election) where they got a decent percentage of the overall votes, but ended up with about 2 seats. It doesn’t put them in a good position for form a coalition. Are there any constituencies where they are actually favourites to get a seat?
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That's not their game plan! They want to effect the Brexit outcome that's all, sure they will offer other polices, but they are not a party really they only agree on one thing, their aim is simple to affect any or all results which might mean a remain Parliament returning. Whatever Farage says the Brexit party will be about shaping the next Government, not necessarily being a part of it, that's why he's not standing for election, by declaring himself a non-combatant he's shot the remains' main fox!
 
Maticmaker said:
That's not their game plan! They want to effect the Brexit outcome that's all, sure they will offer other polices, but they are not a party really they only agree on one thing, their aim is simple to affect any or all results which might mean a remain Parliament returning. Whatever Farage says the Brexit party will be about shaping the next Government, not necessarily being a part of it, that's why he's not standing for election, by declaring himself a non-combatant he's shot the remains' main fox!
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Yeah, the post I quoted was predicting a con-bxp coalition, hence me saying I don’t think that’ll happen due to them not getting any seats.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
That interview is hardly damning as the tweet claims, she expresses regret and admits being in the wrong. You don’t see many politicians doing that.
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Do you really believe her expression of regret?

Fact is she believes in these cuts.
I posted this in the other thread. But it is relevant here too.
The truth about these cuts.

 
sun_tzu said:
Ashfield and bassetlaw would be 2 seemingly realistic options

Traditional labour constituency but around 70% leave and both ex mining areas and some reluctance amongst some people to vote conservative

Both current MP's standing down I think John Mann and Gloria Di perio

I find it hard to imagine more than a handful of MP's but as we saw with the dup... Few MPs can make a big difference

Especially when we have to say in summer 2020 if we want to extend the free trade negotiations
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Would be Sod’s law if it ends up taking 2-3 seats to form a majority :lol:
 
ThierryHenry said:
You leave East London alone.

West Ham fans are the ex-cockneys who moved out to Essex. Definitely a Brexit/ Tory demographic in 2019.
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I guess a lot of them moved to shitholes along the Croydon tramline. My brother used to live in one of them, New Addington.

I used to live in East London and have also lived North and South here, before settling in the West tbf.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Yeah, the post I quoted was predicting a con-bxp coalition, hence me saying I don’t think that’ll happen due to them not getting any seats.
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Yes I agree, in fact I suspect in the future these 'single aim' pressure groups forming themselves in to what appear to be 'real political parties' will happen more often.

It has taken the Remain/Leave binary choice referendum to act as a catalyst, to 'splinter-off' from the mainstream a single issue of perceived National/Social importance that cuts across traditional political ideologies. By forming themselves into a 'would be' political party rather than just a pressure group they can, via social media at the time of national elections, apply real pressure to the mainstream political parties. Indeed this is the future for the Greens, and maybe Extinction Rebellion and could be for other previously taboo issues, e.g. an Anti-Abortion Party (ABP) or even a Bring Back Capital Punishment Party (BBCPP), this is not something Neo/Liberal or other mainstream Governments will want, but it may will appeal to the those obsessed with single issues who can mobilise like minded individuals via Social Media... hence in future it could well be coming to an election near you!
 
Red Dreams said:
Do you really believe her expression of regret?

Fact is she believes in these cuts.
I posted this in the other thread. But it is relevant here too.
The truth about these cuts.

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Thanks but I know the arguments for and against austerity. I'd give her the benefit of the doubt. I do believe that a coalition is a poison chalice for the junior party but they did temper the Tories at least a bit.
 
Maticmaker said:
Yes I agree, in fact I suspect in the future these 'single aim' pressure groups forming themselves in to what appear to be 'real political parties' will happen more often.

It has taken the Remain/Leave binary choice referendum to act as a catalyst, to 'splinter-off' from the mainstream a single issue of perceived National/Social importance that cuts across traditional political ideologies. By forming themselves into a 'would be' political party rather than just a pressure group they can, via social media at the time of national elections, apply real pressure to the mainstream political parties. Indeed this is the future for the Greens, and maybe Extinction Rebellion and could be for other previously taboo issues, e.g. an Anti-Abortion Party (ABP) or even a Bring Back Capital Punishment Party (BBCPP), this is not something Neo/Liberal or other mainstream Governments will want, but it may will appeal to the those obsessed with single issues who can mobilise like minded individuals via Social Media... hence in future it could well be coming to an election near you!
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Maybe PR isn’t such a good idea then. Mind you I and my family have voted green in the past when totally disenfranchised with the main parties, purely in an effort to drive the agenda by weight of numbers, so people voting bxp are essentially doing the same thing
 
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