UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

How do you intend to vote in the 2019 General Election if eligible?

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 30 4.3%

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 73 10.6%

  • DUP

    Votes: 5 0.7%

  • Green

    Votes: 23 3.3%

  • Labour

    Votes: 355 51.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 58 8.4%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 3 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • SNP

    Votes: 19 2.8%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 6 0.9%

  • Independent

    Votes: 1 0.1%

  • Other (BNP, Change UK, UUP and anyone else that I have forgotten)

    Votes: 10 1.4%

  • Not voting

    Votes: 57 8.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 41 5.9%
  • Total voters
    690
  • Poll closed .
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DavidDeSchmikes said:
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Used to rate Sophie Ridge but somehow can't stand her since she came back. Swinson should have told her that Lib Dem voters are literate and that the question was right beneath the graph, and that it's a bit rich to complain about that given the misrepresentation that happens every day all day on Sky News. (Likening that to the 350m for instance, like she does 60 seconds later, she's become a proper Murdoch woman in her time off).
 
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Classical Mechanic said:
Thanks but I know the arguments for and against austerity. I'd give her the benefit of the doubt. I do believe that a coalition is a poison chalice for the junior party but they did temper the Tories at least a bit.
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Fact is there is no justification for Austerity for the vast majority that had no role in causing the mess that the country went into.
So there is no "For" argument.
 
Abizzz said:
Used to rate Sophie Ridge but somehow can't stand her since she came back. Swinson should have told her that Lib Dem voters are literate and that the question was right beneath the graph, and that it's a bit rich to complain about that given the misrepresentation that happens every day all day on Sky News.
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You do know Swinson numbers have been tanking over the last few days both with the public and lib dem members, right ?

YouGov -

A recent Yougov polling of 2,000 British voters has shown the newly elected Liberal Democratic leader Jo Swinson to be massively unpopular, with her ratings taken the biggest hit in the early days of the UK elections. Even Lib Dem party members have been losing patience with Swinson with her party popularity dropping in the negative for the first time.

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Link - https://today.yougov.com/topics/ent...who-americas-favorite-sesame-street-character
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I'm guessing these stupid polling stunts like the one in the sky interview are starting to have an effect on the party. But anyway mate you carry on talking about the ''fake news'' media.
The Yougov poll is completely made up and actually about sesame street characters
 
Full bodied red said:
Of course it does make sense.

But raising taxes for the ' rich ' in the UK won't help the people who need the most help in the slightest.

Labour's starting point should be a ' Turnover Tax ' on multinationals so that the Starbucks, Amazons, E-Bays of the world pay tax on their revenue in the UK and NOT on their alleged profits in the UK which can basically be manipulated to whatever profit the Corporate HQ in USA or Germany or wherever want.

We have something similar here - several different Corporate Taxes and Employer Social Security Contributions are based on Turnover, not profit, of about 0.5% or 1.0%, and if we are to believe the politicos, it's far more effective than a staright, increase in basic Corporate Tax rates on the alleged profits of the French subsidiaries of these multinationals.

Instead, Labour use the promise of tax increases for the ' rich ' just as a vote winner because it appeals to anyone with more conscience than understanding of the problem.

The 3rd World poor ?? No idea how they can be lifted out of squalor - there's simply way too many of them and too much corruption that ends up with much of the aid which is already sent to help but ends up in bank accounts in Grand Cayman.

Don't get me wrong - I'm more than happy and grateful that I was born where I was, when I was, and hate to see the financial struggles which are now everyday problems for too many of the generations after me.
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Labours plan is not to simply raise tax on the 'rich' as you put it. It is much more comprehensive which will raise money to invest in people and create more opportunities for those who currently have very little.

To summarise I've added the quote below;

"If the Labour party comes to power, the rates of income tax will increase to 45% for income over £80,000 and 50% over £123,000. Companies would pay a levy for any staff earning over £330,000. CGT will increase at least to 18% basic rate and 28% higher rate. Inheritance tax will be replaced by a lifetime gift tax at income tax rates on any gifts over £125,000. Landowners will be taxed more heavily while tenants will be better off. Corporation tax will be 26%. Large companies would need to transfer up to 10% of their shares to a fund for their employees and the nation. The GAAR will be revamped."

But ultimately the intention has to be there to create more opportunities across all demographics in the UK. The intention has to be there to close tax loopholes and generate more tax from rich businesses in order to fund public services. Ideologically that intention is not there with the Tories. The opposite is true. They believe the 'free market's' will average themselves out to create a fair system. It obviously doesn't, but they don't care because they benefit personally from the inequality.
 
Sweet Square said:
You do know Swinson numbers have been tanking over the last few days both with the public and lib dem members, right ?

YouGov -
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I was aware that she has a fight on her hands to keep her own seat, aside from that I didn't know nor do I much care to be honest. We all know she won't be the next PM.
Sweet Square said:
Link - https://today.yougov.com/topics/ent...who-americas-favorite-sesame-street-character

I'm guessing these stupid polling stunts like the one in the sky interview are starting to have an effect on the party. But anyway mate you carry on talking about the ''fake news'' media.
The Yougov poll completely made up and its actually about sesame street character
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Oh come on, I haven't used that term and I don't like it. I did say that Sky News misrepresents all day every day, and I stand by that. They misrepresent everything I have the slightest knowledge of. Remember the days when Germany was good cop, France bad cop :lol:, remember Juncker wanting a deal but France not, then the other way around? Remember German manufacturers pressing Merkel to agree to anything? You can point at brexiteers and lay all lies at their feet, but that wasn't what I witnessed.

You call it fake news if you like. I call it misrepresentation.
 
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Abizzz said:
Used to rate Sophie Ridge but somehow can't stand her since she came back. Swinson should have told her that Lib Dem voters are literate and that the question was right beneath the graph, and that it's a bit rich to complain about that given the misrepresentation that happens every day all day on Sky News. (Likening that to the 350m for instance, like she does 60 seconds later, she's become a proper Murdoch woman in her time off).
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You cannot seriously justify that graph and the small-print as anything other than ridiculous. The whole message it is trying to convey (that the seat is a direct battle between Lib Dem and Tory candidate) cannot be anchored in facts and reality so instead they have constructed a deliberately misleading bar-chart based on a bizarre question to try and create a false narrative. Ridge was perfectly entitled to call Swinson out for that embarrassment.
 
Abizzz said:
I was aware that she has a fight on her hands to keep her own seat, aside from that I didn't know nor do I much care to be honest. We all know she won't be the next PM.
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But out of interest what do you think of the yougov polling I posted ?
 
BobbyManc said:
You cannot seriously justify that graph and the small-print as anything other than ridiculous. The whole message it is trying to convey (that the seat is a direct battle between Lib Dem and Tory candidate) cannot be anchored in facts and reality so instead they have constructed a deliberately misleading bar-chart based on a bizarre question to try and create a false narrative. Ridge was perfectly entitled to call Swinson out for that embarrassment.
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Creating a false equivalency between that and the country supposedly paying 350m a week for nothing which will be given to the NHS in the future is ridiculous. The graph itself is nothing to be proud of... but again, it's right underneath it. People who never read the fine print always get so upset when someone else tells them what it says ;)
 
Abizzz said:
Used to rate Sophie Ridge but somehow can't stand her since she came back. Swinson should have told her that Lib Dem voters are literate and that the question was right beneath the graph, and that it's a bit rich to complain about that given the misrepresentation that happens every day all day on Sky News. (Likening that to the 350m for instance, like she does 60 seconds later, she's become a proper Murdoch woman in her time off).
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She is right to call out Swinsons deception.

The question was in tiny tiny font at the bottom of the question. The bar chart was misleading and intentionally so. It's pretty bad stuff and Swinson defending it is also ridiculous.

What that Lib Dem graph actually communicates is that, even if it was between only Tories and Lib Dems, the Tories would win! Seriously.
 
Full bodied red said:
Of course it does make sense.

But raising taxes for the ' rich ' in the UK won't help the people who need the most help in the slightest.

Labour's starting point should be a ' Turnover Tax ' on multinationals so that the Starbucks, Amazons, E-Bays of the world pay tax on their revenue in the UK and NOT on their alleged profits in the UK which can basically be manipulated to whatever profit the Corporate HQ in USA or Germany or wherever want.

We have something similar here - several different Corporate Taxes and Employer Social Security Contributions are based on Turnover, not profit, of about 0.5% or 1.0%, and if we are to believe the politicos, it's far more effective than a staright, increase in basic Corporate Tax rates on the alleged profits of the French subsidiaries of these multinationals.

Instead, Labour use the promise of tax increases for the ' rich ' just as a vote winner because it appeals to anyone with more conscience than understanding of the problem.

The 3rd World poor ?? No idea how they can be lifted out of squalor - there's simply way too many of them and too much corruption that ends up with much of the aid which is already sent to help but ends up in bank accounts in Grand Cayman.

Don't get me wrong - I'm more than happy and grateful that I was born where I was, when I was, and hate to see the financial struggles which are now everyday problems for too many of the generations after me.
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How are you going to structure that though? Revenue is not an indicator of profit, plus your costs might be booked in another country etc...
 
Abizzz said:
Yeah because some graph the Lib Dems released in some borough of London is really what the UK should occupy itself with at the moment. Great stuff.
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Misrepresentation of facts and misleading information during an election campaign should be called out. For all parties. Yes, absolutely. Very relevant.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Misrepresentation of facts and misleading information during an election campaign should be called out. For all parties. Yes, absolutely. Very relevant.
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Right, so lets start with the slightest misrepresentation by the smallest relevant party in one constituency :lol:. After four years of letting lies, lies and more lies be "opinion".


But I guess anything is alright as long as it distracts from Boris' mess.
 
Red Dreams said:
It simply shows she is a liar.
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Fine. I wasn't planning on going on this crusade when first posting here :). I'm just fed up with Sky News for acting as if stuff like this was as relevant as illegal referendum financing, the lies about the European Union etc. I wasn't really planning on defending Swinson and wouldn't trust her more than any other politician (bar Boris, who is a serial liar and deserves special distrust). Her defense wasn't very good either in that short clip, which is why I originally suggested she should have gone with something different.
 
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Classical Mechanic said:
It's a little bit naughty but not some big drama. The IFS declared Labours manifesto as 'dishonest' before the last election with a £9bn 'blackhole' in it. In contrast to that its a trifling matter.
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That was an opinion. The IFS criticised both Tory and labour manifestos.

Labour did not go out to lie about what it wanted to do. A matter for debate sure about how to pay for policies.

Back to the current election. I listen to Corbyn's 3 major speeches. He spells out how he is going to help working class people.
What policies do the other two party have that helps people? And importantly how do they stack up to voting records?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Corbyn is now telling his cabinet that the Brexit debate is over within the party and he must be obeyed. So what is the position then?
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T00lsh3d said:
He’s not telling. That’s the beauty of it
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Negotiate a Labour brexit deal with the eu and then a second referendum between the labour deal and remain, all within the first 6 months of a labour government.

Honestly its really not that difficult to understand.
 
Fecking hell, are Lib Dem bar charts really becoming an election issue?
 
Weird thing is the false Lib Dem graph could be made for other areas where there's a close battle between Lib Dem and Cons where Labour aren't in the running. Strange why they fabricate something.

And while the 350m is contentious she says there's no reality to it when actually it's 350m in reality, then in reality a rebate is applied, then in reality the EU chooses to spend some of that back. 250m a week could've been put on the bus to spend by the UK as it pleases and had a similar effect while this graph for this area was a total fabrication and had no basis of reality.
 
Red Dreams said:
That was an opinion. The IFS criticised both Tory and labour manifestos.

Labour did not go out to lie about what it wanted to do. A matter for debate sure about how to pay for policies.

Back to the current election. I listen to Corbyn's 3 major speeches. He spells out how he is going to help working class people.
What policies do the other two party have that helps people? And importantly how do they stack up to voting records?
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Come on, promoting policies you can’t afford is lying. It is what it is. If there’s one thing we’ve learnt about Corbyn since 2017 it’s that he isn’t the straight shooter he was advertised to be. He’s a politician after all.

Back to this election, I haven’t heard many policies from any party so I am waiting for the picture to be clearer. I like Labour’s policy of ending fuel poverty in principle but fear they’ll completely bodge it. I think there’s an issue of homes becoming horrible to live in the summer as it gets warmer because no heat can escape. This will lead to the proliferation of air conditioning which has its own problems energy wise. This has been touched on in some articles I’ve seen but I’d hope it would be something that is looked at, although I doubt it as previous policies like this have been bodged.

Sweet Square said:
Negotiate a Labour brexit deal with the eu and then a second referendum between the labour deal and remain, all within the first 6 months of a labour government.

Honestly its really not that difficult to understand.
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I’ve already been told off in this thread for thinking that a soft Brexit vs remain referendum will be hugely divisive. I don’t see it as closing the question at all. I actually think it will energise the Brexit movement and we’d end up with an opposition party with a Brexit identity at its core. I just think it’s a bad policy.
 
redshaw said:
Weird thing is the false Lib Dem graph could be made for other areas where there's a close battle between Lib Dem and Cons where Labour aren't in the running. Strange why they fabricate something.

And while the 350m is contentious she says there's no reality to it when actually it's 350m in reality, then in reality a rebate is applied, then in reality the EU chooses to spend some of that back. 250m a week could've been put on the bus to spend by the UK as it pleases and had a similar effect while this graph for this area was a total fabrication and had no basis of reality.
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According to the British Government actually 133m and that's if you willfully ignore all the benefits the UK had economically from being a member.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gros...2016theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2016-05-25


In reality it should have said: Being a member in the European Union benefits us by x Billion per week and we'll have to slash your welfare accordingly if you vote us out.
 
Sweet Square said:
Negotiate a Labour brexit deal with the eu and then a second referendum between the labour deal and remain, all within the first 6 months of a labour government.

Honestly its really not that difficult to understand.
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If he did negotiate a new deal (pretty big if) and it goes to a second ref, is he supporting his deal or remain?
 
To right that Corbyn is telling the cabinet that Brexit debate is over. They need to concentrate on policy ,even though the media would like a General Election to be about one subject.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
If in 1992 we only had 50 coffins for 75 people and by 2008 we managed to provide 120 coffins for 140 people then the situation can be said to have improved. If, however, it then turns out that by 2019 we have 130 coffins for 200 people then the situation can be said to have regressed.

This is really simple stuff Finneh.
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You're being disingenuous.

If the current Tory party are spending more than Blair for the vast majority of his tenure as a % of GDP, at a point in time (1997 - 2005) whereby no-one would have considered his measures to in any way look like austerity, then the same criteria has to be used now.

I'll reiterate my question: was Blair responsible for the worst austerity we've seen in decades during the majority of his tenure, with him spending up to 3.5% less than the Tories as a % of GDP?

Also you act like spending as a % of GDP should rise year on year... That's like assuming you can pay your employees a greater % of turnover every year, your business would quickly fail.
 
Sweet Square said:
Negotiate a Labour brexit deal with the eu and then a second referendum between the labour deal and remain, all within the first 6 months of a labour government.

Honestly its really not that difficult to understand.
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I think everyone understands the theory - it's the practice that bothers people. When will his manifesto appear?
 
T00lsh3d said:
......you mean he’s going to negotiate a deal, then campaign against it if it’s crap?
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He's going to negotiate what he can, then I'm guessing if it doesn't meet with some red lines he'd recommend voting remain.
 
berbatrick said:
He's going to negotiate what he can, then I'm guessing if it doesn't meet with some red lines he'd recommend voting remain.
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Ok. I’m not knocking your explanation, but that sounds ludicrous to me. If he renegotiates a new deal he’ll look ridiculous not backing it.
 
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Abizzz said:
Right, so lets start with the slightest misrepresentation by the smallest relevant party in one constituency :lol:. After four years of letting lies, lies and more lies be "opinion".


But I guess anything is alright as long as it distracts from Boris' mess.
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Shes just as bad as the Tories.

But I do agree, the Tories should be getting called out for their misinformation and lies too.
 
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