UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Fiskey]

Yes...

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ients-die-waiting-for-beds-in-hospitals-study

You'll be able to buy 'fast track tickets' soon though I'm sure so you'll be ok.

Obviously it is horrible if anyone dies unnecessarily, but medicine is always a judgement call and doctors would have taken the judgement in those situations that people could wait and been unfortunately proven wrong. A healthcare system that allowed everyone to be treated instantaneously by a doctor would be impossible to fund.

I found this document (from 2018) very interesting, and I think it shows in a more dispassionate way the strengths and weaknesses of the NHS - https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/files/2018-06/the-nhs-at-70-how-good-is-the-nhs.pdf.

 

[sammsky1]

Not sure anybody has alleged they paid the people... Though there are allegations they paid for the transport to get them there

I don’t see what the issue is. This is an election so obviously all parties will self organise to get their resources into the right place. Funds exist to make sure people don’t financially lose out. What’s the big deal here?

 

[Abizzz]

Not sure anybody has alleged they paid the people... Though there are allegations they paid for the transport to get them there

Could you quickly pop a source on that image for us?

https://order-order.com/

100 Bucks on it being fake.

 

[Pexbo]

https://order-order.com/

100 Bucks on it being fake.

ShockedPikachu.jpg

 

[esmufc07]

That was painful to watch!

 

[Fiskey]

You struggle to find a left leaning critic of Corbyn than me in this thread. @sun_tzu perhaps.

And yet if you’re being serious in these posts as opposed to being a silly WUM, then we really are screwed.

Any ‘toxicity’ in this country right now is purely the work of the conservative with Boris Johnson right at the front of the queue. They took an internal party issue on EU membership to the country. Failed to win for the vote they advocated. Failed to agree a BrExit deal within their own party and with the opposition. And then lost their shit like self entitled children in parliament because of their self inflicted failures. They cynically and strategically used dog whistling and extremely offensive language as slogans to energise their base with hate and anger, demonised opposition parties as traitors for simply doing their job and conducted a character assassination smear hit job on Corbyn for supposedly being a racist. And have then used skulduggery and fake news as a core election communications strategy.

And you have the audacity and chutzpah to make posts like the one above. You are can’t belibve this? Else you have been so truly brainwashed. Fcuk me! Seriously time for you and your ilk to jog on.

I agree with a lot of what you say re the Conservatives, I'm not arguing against that, I'm saying it is key on all sides that the tone of discourse is taken down. Calling opposition parties or Judges traitors is completely unacceptable.

Edit: I just don't feel like I need to say a lot of the anti-Tory stuff that I feel in this thread, because it has already been said. It wouldn't be contributing further to the debate. I tend to get involved where I think people aren't being balanced with their approach.

 

[sammsky1]

I agree with a lot of what you say re the Conservatives, I'm not arguing against that, I'm saying it is key on all sides that the tone of discourse is taken down. Calling opposition parties or Judges traitors is completely unacceptable.

The Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn have not contributed to any toxicity or aggressive tone. this ‘tone’ has been created purely by the Conservatives. No one else. As evidenced by the very civil level of debate when the Tory rep hasn’t turned up at several TV debates.

I was going to vote Tory this time around because I vehemently disagree with several Corbyn policies. But there is simply no way on earth I could live with myself by endorsing Boris Johnson: has the be the vilest man I’ve ever seen in UK politics and who has totally divided a once united nation.

Nah fcuk him and his ilk. I’ll pay the extra tax if he can be consigned to the dustbin as a stupid mistake.

 

[Rajma]

If you're a decent human being you simply won't vote tory knowing what this party is all about, it's as simple as that to me.

 

[Fiskey]

The Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn have not contributed to any toxicity or aggressive tone. this ‘tone’ has been created purely by the Conservatives. No one else. As evidenced by the very civil level of debate when the Tory rep hasn’t turned up at several TV debates.

I was going to vote Tory this time around because I vehemently disagree with several Corbyn policies. But there is simply no way on earth I could live with myself by endorsing Boris Johnson: has the be the vilest man I’ve ever seen in UK politics and who has totally divided a once united nation.

Nah fcuk him and his ilk. I’ll pay the extra tax if he can be consigned to the dustbin as a stupid mistake.

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn has at all, its not his style and that's a great thing. Can you really say the Labour party in general hasn't? That Momentum hasn't? If you don't think so then fair enough, but I don't agree.

 

[Fiskey]

If you're a decent human being you simply won't vote tory knowing what this party is all about, it's as simple as that to me.

Case in point.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Could you quickly pop a source on that image for us?

Do you need to ask him to plug his website again?

 

[sammsky1]

Worse still, we forget that the Twitter that we experience is not the same Twitter that anyone else experiences. It's easy to believe that the country has turned or is turning a corner but the reality is that if you ask most people what their impression is, they will tell you that they think most people on Twitter are coming around to { insert their point of view here }. The reality of the situation is that they are just noticing different people saying things they like because the algorithms are showing them the sort of posts they reply to, like, retweet or even just read for more than a few seconds.

I've not done it myself but I'm told that it's a really interesting experience to create a new Twitter account and start liking and following a bunch of people on the opposite side of the spectrum to you. Then after a week or two you realise just how tailored your news cycle and perspective of the world is. It's constant reinforcement through confirmation bias and is why the world is getting more tribal and more entrenched in their opinions.

When Tommy Robinson was in news a while back, I watched quite a lot of his supporters VDO on youtube and twitter and will admit to having contributed quite a lot of WUMery to ridicule him and his supporters.

Like you say, within a week, my YouTube and twitter feed was full of far right racist content! Was very informative as an experience.

Nowadays I go on twitter once every evening and just scan through trending items, which has a balance of views.

 

[Sweet Square]

Yeah wtf was that question about?

I've seen that presenter before on the BBC and she seems to be one of those fake outrage types(Basically a less openly racist Katie Hopkins).

Its pretty clear the BBC has failed this election with its lack of impartiality but the more concerning point should be that its not informing the general public on anything.

 

[decorativeed]

It seems as if there are people who go wherever politicians are to shout at them. I can only assume this is organised somewhat professionally, I have no idea where a politician is until I've seen it on the news.

Yes, you quite literally can only assume that, because it has no basis in fact. The truth is that it is inevitable that whenever the head of a failing organisation appears in public in that capacity, people who have been failed by it will give them what for.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He’s got caught out there!

Nothing surprising, as we all know a lot of labour MPs think the same.

Not sure now he could have got out of that, would probably have been best to join Rees-Mogg and Abbott in their underground bunker until after Thursday. He’s very naive to have been caught on tape, and saying it was banter and a bit of joshing really hasn’t helped!

 

[Jippy]

I've seen that presenter before on the BBC and she seems to be one of those fake outrage types(Basically a less openly racist Katie Hopkins).

Its pretty clear the BBC has failed this election with its lack of impartiality but the more concerning point should be that its not informing the general public on anything.

What programme is that? Looks like some daytime show.
I'm genuinely disappointed by how abject the BBC has been. It has actually tipped me over the line to support scrapping the licence fee.

 

[sebsheep]

What programme is that? Looks like some daytime show.
I'm genuinely disappointed by how abject the BBC has been. It has actually tipped me over the line to support scrapping the licence fee.

That was on the question time special last night.

 

[Pexbo]

Right @sun_tzu I've done a little bit of investigation work.

Here's the image you posted:

It's hosted by Guido Fawkes as you well know and as I knew when I asked the question.

Here's the link: https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Labour-whatsapp-taxis-without-times.png


Something struck me as a little bit odd about this.

"without-times"

So I removed "without-times" and I got this image:

As you can see, it's still hosted on the same domain. order-order.com and the times show that the images were posted at 17:54 on wards.




This tweet was posted half an hour before the whatsapp messages supposedly happened. The whatsapp messages also suggest it was still light at nearly 6pm yesterday.




So do yourself a fecking favour and stop filling your head with pure disinformation. You are either trusting these people to inform you or it's just political fiction porn that you get off on. Either way can you do us all a favour here and keep it out of this thread from now on because you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Jippy]

That was on the question time special last night.

Oh right, cheers. I'm on hols and forgot about that. I'm assuming it had no leaders on it and was shite from that clip?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn have not contributed to any toxicity or aggressive tone. this ‘tone’ has been created purely by the Conservatives. No one else. As evidenced by the very civil level of debate when the Tory rep hasn’t turned up at several TV debates.

I was going to vote Tory this time around because I vehemently disagree with several Corbyn policies. But there is simply no way on earth I could live with myself by endorsing Boris Johnson: has the be the vilest man I’ve ever seen in UK politics and who has totally divided a once united nation.

Nah fcuk him and his ilk. I’ll pay the extra tax if he can be consigned to the dustbin as a stupid mistake.

here is the classic blame game. Look throughout this thread - there is utter bile aimed at those who question Corbyn. Clearly all parties are to blame - maybe not the Green Party?

it’s this blame game that contributes to this abuse. Someone said earlier that they wanted to see Hancock punched because it would be funny. Where do you stop with this?

I get that the majority of MPs have been showing little respect for each other, but are they just reflective of a society driven by hate through social media?

 

[P-Nut]

@Pexbo that is some great work, better than the majority of journalists in this country have bothered to do anyways

 

[Drifter]

UK economy grinds to a halt days before general election

Britain’s economy ground to a halt in October, with figures showing GDP flatlining just as the country gears up for a general election.
Official figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) published on Tuesday show UK economic output was unchanged month-on-month in October, though it had seen a 0.1% decline in September. Analysts had expected the economy to narrowly recover by 0.1%.

The data also showed Britain’s economy grew at its slowest annual rate in seven years, with GDP up only 0.7% in the year to October compared with a year earlier.

It marked the weakest annual performance since March 2012. Growth was also flat across the three months to October.

Marc-André Fongern, an FX analyst at MAF Global Forex, said it meant the Bank of England was “likely to be toying with the idea of lowering interest rates.”

He added: “A loosening of monetary policy in the near future would indeed ease the burden on the domestic economy.”
Sterling had edged higher against the dollar ahead of the announcement, but analysts said it reflected growing expectations of a Conservative victory rather than confidence in the economic data.

The figures come as the UK’s main political parties make their last pitch to voters this week in a final push to win over the undecided and encourage supporters to turn out.
“Sterling price action is all about the upcoming parliamentary election and real economic data should continue to play second fiddle," ING analysts said in a note sent to clients.

Many investors hope a Conservative victory would help break the current Brexit deadlock, which has seen parliament resist several potential Brexit outcomes.

An ONS spokesperson said: “The UK economy saw no growth in the latest three months. There were increases across the services sector, offset by falls in manufacturing with factories continuing the weak performance seen since April.
“Construction also declined across the last three months with a notable drop in house building and infrastructure in October.”

David Cheetham, chief market analyst at XTB noted a “slight pick-up” in industrial and manufacturing production but said both were “still firmly in negative territory.”

He said the flat reading was “hardly something to celebrate,” tweeting: “Quite clear economic growth has effectively ground to a halt.”

 

[esmufc07]

Right @sun_tzu I've done a little bit of investigation work.

Here's the image you posted:

It's hosted by Guido Fawkes as you well know and as I knew when I asked the question.

Here's the link: https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Labour-whatsapp-taxis-without-times.png


Something struck me as a little bit odd about this.

"without-times"

So I removed "without-times" and I got this image:

As you can see, it's still hosted on the same domain. order-order.com and the times show that the images were posted at 17:54 on wards.




This tweet was posted half an hour before the whatsapp messages supposedly happened. The whatsapp messages also suggest it was still light at nearly 6pm yesterday.




So do yourself a fecking favour and stop filling your head with pure disinformation. You are either trusting these people to inform you or it's just political fiction porn that you get off on. Either way can you do us all a favour here and keep it out of this thread from now on because you're embarrassing yourself.

Great work, Dr. Watson.

 

[Raven]

Yeah wtf was that question about?

What a waste of everyone's time. The BBC would be replaced, it's no longer fit for purpose.

 

[Raven]

I also think that Laura Kuenssberg is right to call the scenes "grim", and I would say just the same to people shouting at Jeremy Corbyn. There should be no place for this level of anger in public discourse, we've already seen where it can lead with the murder of Jo Cox. Shouting at public figures while they are doing their jobs should not be tolerated.

You were being reasonable(ish) up until this point. I wish you fecking Tories would stop bringing up Jo Cox to back up your points. It's disgusting.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

If you're a decent human being you simply won't vote tory knowing what this party is all about, it's as simple as that to me.

That's exactly how I feel.

 

[sebsheep]

Oh right, cheers. I'm on hols and forgot about that. I'm assuming it had no leaders on it and was shite from that clip?

I think Labour, Tories and SNP sent other people but the rest had their leaders. The clip doesn't full represent the whole show, it wasn't too bad but these things just descend into shouting matches at points and half the time these politicians don't really answer the actual question.
I've grown pretty fond of the Plaid Cymru leader over the course of these debates.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

You were being reasonable(ish) up until this point. I wish you fecking Tories would stop bringing up Jo Cox to back up your points. It's disgusting.

lots of female MPs across all parties have said over the past 6 months that the level of abuse is driving them out of politics. It’s not just the Tories. it won’t be long until another incident happens. Hopefully it won’t be as serious.

 

[Sweet Square]

I'm genuinely disappointed by how abject the BBC has been. It has actually tipped me over the line to support scrapping the licence fee.

I'm surprised at how lazy they been during this election( Kuenssberg reporting and the question time ''debate'' yesterday were like a parody). There really is no reason why someone should pay their license fee when the outcome is pure shite.

The BBC needs mass reforms or to be broken up and the tax payers money going to local media instead(Granted this is just personal taste but why the feck is tax money been used to make cookery shows).

They clearly lost a lot good will from people.

 

[sammsky1]

here is the classic blame game. Look throughout this thread - there is utter bile aimed at those who question Corbyn. Clearly all parties are to blame - maybe not the Green Party?

it’s this blame game that contributes to this abuse. Someone said earlier that they wanted to see Hancock punched because it would be funny. Where do you stop with this?

I get that the majority of MPs have been showing little respect for each other, but are they just reflective of a society driven by hate through social media?

Unsubstantiated and purely personal point of view, driven primarily by your partisan views. So it seems @Fiskey isnt alone in being brainwashed.

Go Boris Go! AmIrite?

 

[Fiskey]

You were being reasonable(ish) up until this point. I wish you fecking Tories would stop bringing up Jo Cox to back up your points. It's disgusting.

This isn't a Tory point, its a general political discourse point. Its a horrible thing, and I worry something similar could happen again. When one group dehumanises another, dreadful things happen as we've seen throughout history.

 

[sebsheep]

Right @sun_tzu I've done a little bit of investigation work.

Here's the image you posted:

It's hosted by Guido Fawkes as you well know and as I knew when I asked the question.

Here's the link: https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Labour-whatsapp-taxis-without-times.png


Something struck me as a little bit odd about this.

"without-times"

So I removed "without-times" and I got this image:

As you can see, it's still hosted on the same domain. order-order.com and the times show that the images were posted at 17:54 on wards.




This tweet was posted half an hour before the whatsapp messages supposedly happened. The whatsapp messages also suggest it was still light at nearly 6pm yesterday.




So do yourself a fecking favour and stop filling your head with pure disinformation. You are either trusting these people to inform you or it's just political fiction porn that you get off on. Either way can you do us all a favour here and keep it out of this thread from now on because you're embarrassing yourself.

I'm concerned about how someone in that whatsapp seems to have a time machine.
Siobhan posts at 6:04 that she can "only get there at 4:45"

 

[Redlambs]

here is the classic blame game. Look throughout this thread - there is utter bile aimed at those who question Corbyn. Clearly all parties are to blame - maybe not the Green Party?

it’s this blame game that contributes to this abuse. Someone said earlier that they wanted to see Hancock punched because it would be funny. Where do you stop with this?

I get that the majority of MPs have been showing little respect for each other, but are they just reflective of a society driven by hate through social media?

They are using social media as a weapon. All of them.

I mean I do kind of get your point, but my one above negates that don't you think? I mean, surely you can see that lies fuel hate which in turn fuels further lies. It's a circle that our politicians have been ever so happy to join and push their narrative.

 

[Redlambs]

What programme is that? Looks like some daytime show.
I'm genuinely disappointed by how abject the BBC has been. It has actually tipped me over the line to support scrapping the licence fee.

It should have been scrapped a long time ago.

 

[sammsky1]

Right @sun_tzu I've done a little bit of investigation work.

Here's the image you posted:

It's hosted by Guido Fawkes as you well know and as I knew when I asked the question.

Here's the link: https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Labour-whatsapp-taxis-without-times.png


Something struck me as a little bit odd about this.

"without-times"

So I removed "without-times" and I got this image:

As you can see, it's still hosted on the same domain. order-order.com and the times show that the images were posted at 17:54 on wards.




This tweet was posted half an hour before the whatsapp messages supposedly happened. The whatsapp messages also suggest it was still light at nearly 6pm yesterday.




So do yourself a fecking favour and stop filling your head with pure disinformation. You are either trusting these people to inform you or it's just political fiction porn that you get off on. Either way can you do us all a favour here and keep it out of this thread from now on because you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Abizzz]

Feck me the UK is really just America from a couple of years ago. "It's both sides", "everyone is doing it" bla bla while one party deports actual citizens and the other has a MP killed.


No it's not both sides and anyone saying so is just super obnoxious in declaring his/her side.

 

[Fiskey]

Unsubstantiated and purely personal point of view, driven primarily by your partisan views. So it seems @Fiskey isnt alone in being brainwashed.

Go Boris Go! AmIrite?

I've never voted Tory in my life, general and London Mayoral elections.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Peston doesn't work for the BBC anymore.

Is it an ITV conspiracy too?

 

[Raven]

lots of female MPs across all parties have said over the past 6 months that the level of abuse is driving them out of politics. It’s not just the Tories. it won’t be long until another incident happens. Hopefully it won’t be as serious.

I don't care. I dont think you right wing Tories have any right to be using her name to further your cause.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Those quotes from Jon Ashworth are pretty bad. Its a good bet he won't be in the shadow cabinet after the election is over. Someone's stitched him up good and proper.

Edit: Or the Cabinet, obviously.