Proportional representation.
UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
- Status
Imagine watching this government lie and fail the last 9 years and still voting for them claiming the opposition is the one full of empty promises. There’s either something not quite right with them or they’re selfish and don’t give a shit about others. I hope people voting Tory know that they do not give a feck about you.
What I want is for the whole Brexit nonsense to have never happened.
As that's not possible, I either want to rescind Article 50 (but Lib Dems are not a realistic choice) or just get it over with and move forward (Conservatives).
Voting for the current Labour government is asking for months and years of more Brexit confusion as we chase a deal that is not on offer and attempt to anger our closest trading partners and wealth generators with nationalisations and punitive tax policies. We would be alongside the Greeks and Italians within 10 years with Corbyn in charge, and with no EU to bail us out.
Moving forward with Brexit simply isn't moving forward at all. Being bored of Brexit is such a weak argument to side with a party of liars.
You think the taxing of only the 5% is truthful? The working class would be tonked by the labour manifesto, it would destroy the UK economy far worse than any form of brexit could do in any scenario. It is impossible to pay for without higher taxes for the already struggling. Then you have the effect of brain drain and capital drain as the rich desert the UK in droves. It is an economical horror show from a bygone age. Anyone not understanding that needs to go and read a lot. Then you can get back to calling everyone racist and horrible for not wanting to be part of it.
Actually, compared to the status quo it is. The country needs to pick a direction because the uncertainty is like a slow wound killing the economy. Labour are not offering that choice because Corbyn is too weak to put his cards on the table.
I think BJ delivered a good manifesto speech just now, and hasn’t dramatically failed in any of the TV debates despite a lot of ammunition thrown at him.
Can’t see Tories having any major clusterfcuk policy moment. There message discipline has been impressive and continually reassures their BrExit seeking base.
It will take a massively salacious BI personal skeleton to come out for him to be impacted.
Last edited:
What I want is for the whole Brexit nonsense to have never happened.
As that's not possible, I either want to rescind Article 50 (but Lib Dems are not a realistic choice) or just get it over with and move forward (Conservatives).
Voting for the current Labour government is asking for months and years of more Brexit confusion as we chase a deal that is not on offer and attempt to anger our closest trading partners and wealth generators with nationalisations and punitive tax policies. We would be alongside the Greeks and Italians within 10 years with Corbyn in charge, and with no EU to bail us out.
Labour is about a short negotiation period with the EU, exactly like Johnson just had when he became PM, negotiating a position for a much softer, less damaging Brexit followed by a second referendum with actual detailed options as the choice so the public can either ratify the decision or put it to bed once and for all.
That depends on what you consider a better outcome.
And what makes you think that is any way possible? The EU is going to all of a sudden allow us all these new concessions after having been through this twice and refused to budge an inch on either occasion?
It is not though. Johnson just changed the border to the Irish Sea from May's deal, a small adjustment which was possible. Corbyn says he'll rip up the agreement and start again with all the fantasy bits added on. It is not credible at all.
The Conservative plan doesn't get Brexit done at all. We then have to spend at least a year, more likely 3-7 years negotiating the shape of a future trade deal, with decisions on regulatory alliance, immigration and trade poured over in detail in the press. The current Brexit deal agreed is step one in a complicated process, and will do nothing like 'Get Brexit Done' and get rid of the uncertainty currently harming the economy.
What I want is for the whole Brexit nonsense to have never happened.
As that's not possible, I either want to rescind Article 50 (but Lib Dems are not a realistic choice) or just get it over with and move forward (Conservatives).
Voting for the current Labour government is asking for months and years of more Brexit confusion as we chase a deal that is not on offer and attempt to anger our closest trading partners and wealth generators with nationalisations and punitive tax policies. We would be alongside the Greeks and Italians within 10 years with Corbyn in charge, and with no EU to bail us out.
Where do you suggest we start reading?
It's naive to think Brexit will disappear once the UK exit's the UK. We simply enter the next phase. Brexit won't be done for about a decade.
The only thing that changes once the UK leaves is that there isn't any going back.
What people want is for Brexit to disappear from the media so they don't have to acknowledge it.
Brexit will still be a key policy area for the election in the mid 2020s.
The only thing that changes once the UK leaves is that there isn't any going back.
What people want is for Brexit to disappear from the media so they don't have to acknowledge it.
Brexit will still be a key policy area for the election in the mid 2020s.
Quite, not even near the end of the beginning let alone the beginning of the end.
Seems like a play-it-super-safe manifesto from the tories, as expected. Struggle to see much other than a Tory majority now.
Indeed, Corbyn had a briefly consistent lead post the 2017-election but since then has stagnated massively. But it's bizarre that we're constantly seeing Labour activists and campaigners both simultaneously cited the 2017 polls to excuse their current figures, while also insisting they can still win a majority. Even though they quite comfortably ended up losing in 2017.
Who is saying this ?
Are Labour members/activists/campaigners/politicians not trying to win a majority? The polls from 2017 are being cited constantly on social media as an excuse for Labour's current position and as an indication they might work their way back into the race. And that might be true, but if you're citing 2017, then it also has to be acknowledged that 2017 still saw Labour lose the election.
The best possible result for Labour now is maintaining the status quo. Which would be fun but also chaos and mean another election in January.
If you cant work that out I suggest Beano.
Well hold now your saying something completely different. Getting back into the race isn't the same as winning as majority, I've seen recent polling compared with 2017 polling as a reason why there hasn't been a Labour bounce straight after the manifesto launch.
I haven't seen anyone suggest that because the polling in 2017 was off that of course Labour are going to win a majority on 2019.
If you look at when I posted it, it was after a ton of posters lost their shit at the recent polling. I wasn't implying at all that Labour are going to win a majority.
Pretty sure I've said on here that I think the result will be similar to 2017. The best Labour can hope for is a forming a government with the SNP.
Last edited:
Because the Liberals butchered the original plans for fibre to the home to fibre to the node but retained copper to the home under pressure from telecom companies. This turned out to be slower and more expensive than the original plan but many people still get far faster internet than before. Mine is 30x faster than before. Only a few people who previously got their internet another way e.g. cable tv shared service, may in some cases now have a slightly slower connection.
So basically right wingers fecked up a good idea so they could give their mates at the top end of town a pay off and feck the rest of us.
What I want is for the whole Brexit nonsense to have never happened.
As that's not possible, I either want to rescind Article 50 (but Lib Dems are not a realistic choice) or just get it over with and move forward (Conservatives).
Voting for the current Labour government is asking for months and years of more Brexit confusion as we chase a deal that is not on offer and attempt to anger our closest trading partners and wealth generators with nationalisations and punitive tax policies. We would be alongside the Greeks and Italians within 10 years with Corbyn in charge, and with no EU to bail us out.
Anything that isn't actually leaving is a good idea.
That's not necessarily what some of the above posts are saying though. The Stats for Lefties post is saying "we can do this" in response to 2017 polling having Labour behind for a while even after the manifesto was launched - but again Labour still ultimately lost in 2017 quite comfortably. If the above people were admitting that a Labour win in any form is unlikely, then that'd be fair enough, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The polling is repeatedly being used as a justification for the suggestion Labour can still win when they're referring to an election which the party lost.
This.
'Win' really meaning a hung parliament and possible labour government. Nobody believes Labour can win a majority.
The party themselves continue to actively argue they can win a parliamentary majority. And even in 2017 they were still a considerably way off being able to form a government.
To add: A lot of my annoyance at this probably comes from Scotland to a significant extent; down south Labour at least are tacitly aware any coalition will involve the SNP and thus a second independence referendum, but up north the anti-Indy crowd are undoubtedly fighting for a majority, and if that's the case then citing 2017 polls is genuinely a bit baffling.
Meh... Imagine being the opposition that despite just how bad this government is it can't seem to make a dent... It's almost like they think calling people yellow Tories or red Tories or selfish Tories is actually going to win people over... I mean imagine having polls showing you doing so bad that you think not having a firm position on the biggest issue in the election is a good idea... Imagine having a leader so unpopular he polls worse than Michael foot and on top of that havibg a proportion of the membership so absorbed with their own echo chamber they can't see what the vast majority of the country see...
We live in crazy times
Last edited:
Yeah this doesn't mean they are saying Labour are going to win a majority. Your claim is that Labour members/activists are using 2017 polling as a example to say Labour are going to win a majority in 2019. Just show me where this is the case(I'm genuinely interested if there is, because so far I haven't seen any examples).
Last edited:
In Scotland those who oppose independence - and thus won't want to do a deal with the SNP who will probably win 40+ seats but will demand an independence referendum - are absolutely still arguing the party can achieve a majority. And anyway, a result for Labour akin to 2017 with the SNP in toe would probably still leave them comfortably short of a majority. Unless they then get the Lib Dems on board...but considering the extreme policy differences between Labour and the Lib Dems I'm struggling to see how a government with the two of them plus the SNP wouldn't fall apart within weeks. And that's if Swinson is even willing to work with a government led by Corbyn, or a government that's propped up by the SNP considering her own strong anti-independence stance.
I get that it's a minor point, but it's just weird to see current polls being spun as anything but genuinely disastrous for Labour when we're now less than three weeks away from an election. Even if the worst ones are overestimating the Tory vote by 5%-10% it's still leaving Labour comfortably short of anything that'll allow them to form something resembling a government. And if Labour were consistently opposed to citing polls that'd be fine, but that doesn't work either considering party members etc will refer to them constantly the moment they begin to show anything remotely positive.
Labour need a clear majority to execute that manifesto. There’s so much in it and a great deal is contentious so they need legislation to sail though, not least the Brexit legislation.
I wouldn’t read anything into the polls right now. There’s only one poll that matters and that is on 12th December. Labour just need to put their heads down and double their efforts to get people knocking on doors and getting the vote out.
They’ve thrown everything at Corbyn for 4 years and there’s not much else they can add to it. Be sure Johnsons skeletons and his unique ability for a gaffe and to outright lie about everything will just catch up to them.
Tories have to continue maintaining their public mask for another 3 weeks and it often slips and sends them into hiding like JRM and Bridgen.
A lot can happen in three weeks I’m confident we’ll be in for another surprise.
They’ve thrown everything at Corbyn for 4 years and there’s not much else they can add to it. Be sure Johnsons skeletons and his unique ability for a gaffe and to outright lie about everything will just catch up to them.
Tories have to continue maintaining their public mask for another 3 weeks and it often slips and sends them into hiding like JRM and Bridgen.
A lot can happen in three weeks I’m confident we’ll be in for another surprise.
I really think anybody who will ever try to shake up the system will have the same issues. We live under the control of Murdoch, Rothermere etc, and anyone who tries to wrestle the power back out of their hands will be smeared to the gutters. Someone like Keir Starmer might appear more likeable to the electorate than Corbyn but we'll see what years of being called a traitor and a communist will do.
Why not? I get that they aren't perfect but they're generally a fairly strong indicator of where public opinion lies. When's the last time a party won an election in the UK when they'd been consistently lagging behind in the polls with all indications they'd end up losing?
Any coalition will see things toned down a bit I think, probably a couple of the nationalisation policies will have to be put on hold.
- Status