UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[sammsky1]

Your final claim betrays the predicates of your proposition.

Given the conflicted binary choice that so many voters will face, I imagine there will be loads of strategic votes, meaning lots of constituencies will change hands.

What I mean is that whilst I think the national cumulative vote will be very very close. 'first past the post' means there could be a Tory majority OR reverse those scales in Labour favour for them to form a SNP coalition.

 

[Smores]

My current thoughts

i'm intrigued what his salary must be that he was both so mad at the potential of paying more tax and also not thinking he was in the top 50%. I suspect he's also one of those who don't understand that tax bands exist.

 

[sammsky1]

Labour having a real pop at Swinson.

 

[2mufc0]

Dude!!

He had Johnson on the ropes, thankfully the presenter was there to step in for him.

 

[villain]

i'm intrigued what his salary must be that he was both so mad at the potential of paying more tax and also not thinking he was in the top 50%. I suspect he's also one of those who don't understand that tax bands exist.

Apparently he's an IT Consultant and not on PAYE. If true, I suspect he's self-employed and gets long-term contracts and pays lower taxes - earning 80k that way is really not that difficult if you have a good amount of experience.
The man is ignorant beyond measure, unfortunately a lot of people are in the same boat.

 

[Smores]

Microsoft been trialling a 4 day week in Japan with success. Article on a list of other companies too.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/F46DF7C0-5D8B-44F1-8CB8-E7A830504A7B

 

[Walrus]

I thought Sturgeon did well, but as others have said - it is very easy when she is pretty much guaranteed the Scottish votes and is effectively a one policy party.

Swinson and Boris were both a mess I thought. The latter with his typical bluster, the former just seeming a bit out of her depth.

I thought Corbyn came across well - by which I mean he seemed more like a normal person who you can actually empathize with.

I hate the way that labour MPs (and Corbyn himself) are constantly pestered about which way they will campaign in Brexit. If anything, being an honest broker should be the sensible and expected thing from our politicians rather than being pre-attached to a specific agenda and unwilling/unable to change your mind.

 

[Ubik]

He had Johnson on the ropes, thankfully the presenter was there to step in for him.

She went to a questioner that asked about his previous racist comments, which has more chance of cut-through than one that was devolving into the committee process.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

i'm intrigued what his salary must be that he was both so mad at the potential of paying more tax and also not thinking he was in the top 50%. I suspect he's also one of those who don't understand that tax bands exist.

When you get to the top 5% the difference in earnings from 5% - 1% is massive, he‘s as close to the 80th percentile as he is to the 99th and then beyond that is where the real wealth starts.

I notice that he races bikes too, my brother races cars and it’s a crazy expensive hobby. Probably why he has no money.

 

[Sweet Square]

Abit to close to the bone?

I wish.

I would love if labour actually were running on the platform these people think they are but the reality is Labour is offering mostly left wing reforms. The Labour platform is simply updating Britain to the 21st century.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I thought Sturgeon did well, but as others have said - it is very easy when she is pretty much guaranteed the Scottish votes and is effectively a one policy party.

SNP are more than a one policy party because Scottish voters care about more than one policy.

They also want to enact daily pillaging of English villages in the North to maintain our free NHS prescriptions and universities.

 

[Kinsella]

i'm intrigued what his salary must be that he was both so mad at the potential of paying more tax and also not thinking he was in the top 50%. I suspect he's also one of those who don't understand that tax bands exist.

The main question to be asked is whether such policies will increase or decrease the tax take. And the answer is usually the latter.

 

[TheReligion]

The guy with the Afro who kept shouting pissed me off in the end. Good point but let other people speak you dick. Bruce should have made Boris answer it mind.

I thought Corbyn came off the best out of the two to be fair. Much more in his favour than the ITV head to head. I really don't understand Boris. I mean does he not realise he could endear himself to plenty of undecided voters by just being normal and trying to connect with people? Quick example being when he was asked to apologise (stupid question by the way as wasn't even one). Surely you could just say 'Look alot of what I said was taken out of context and I urge people to read the articles in full rather than the snippets only however I do understand in isolation how they look and that the language I used in particular to make my points offensive and for that I'm sorry to anyone I offended'. Is that difficult?

 

[berbatrick]

 

[Pexbo]

 

[sammsky1]

 

[Jippy]

The guy with the Afro who kept shouting pissed me off in the end. Good point but let other people speak you dick. Bruce should have made Boris answer it mind.

I thought Corbyn came off the best out of the two to be fair. Much more in his favour than the ITV head to head. I really don't understand Boris. I mean does he not realise he could endear himself to plenty of undecided voters by just being normal and trying to connect with people? Quick example being when he was asked to apologise (stupid question by the way as wasn't even one). Surely you could just say 'Look alot of what I said was taken out of context and I urge people to read the articles in full rather than the snippets only however I do understand in isolation how they look and that the language I used in particular to make my points offensive and for that I'm sorry to anyone I offended'. Is that difficult?

Yeah it's clearly a psychological flaw he was, a wilful dismissal of any responsibility he has for his own words or actions.

 

[Jippy]

The Times has gotten hold of a Tory script for its candidates, so they can all spout the same bs about their policies and repeat the same lies about Labour.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...re-told-to-say-about-their-policies-lbc7sz82d

It's been tricky for the Times- they've been on a hell of a run of scoops lately, eg the Russian report, but they don't want to crow too loudly about them, given their political hue.

 

[VeevaVee]

The Times has gotten hold of a Tory script for its candidates, so they can all spout the same bs about their policies and repeat the same lies about Labour.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...re-told-to-say-about-their-policies-lbc7sz82d

This makes a hell of a lot of sense. There's a been a lot of Tories involved in different discussions acting very similarly.

 

[Mockney]

Just posting this to make a couple of heads explode.

See, as much as I'm still not sold on the political equivalent of Arthur Fowler being hailed as some kind of radical progressive youth avenger! I find it hard to look at things like this and be convinced that the best path for Labour going forward (with or without Corbyn and his bespoke vegetables) is to swing hard away from this passionate and enthused new young voter base, in order to get a few more boring 40+ middle managers, Guardian journalists and stay at home Clapham mums back onside.

I mean, what’s the fecking point?

It’s the political equivalent of phoning the police on the party next door for going on past 10, or refusing to tip your waitress because she wouldn’t flirt with you. And then expecting neighbourly bonhomie and wonderful service.

If you really hate Corbyn, fine, but build on his appeal, don’t destroy it. You miserable cnuts.

 

[EwanI Ted]

See, as much as I'm still not sold on the political equivalent of Arthur Fowler being hailed as some kind of radical progressive youth avenger! I find it hard to look at things like this and be convinced that the best path for Labour going forward (with or without Corbyn and his bespoke vegetables) is to swing hard away from this passionate and enthused new young voter base, in order to get a few more boring 40+ middle managers, Guardian journalists and stay at home Clapham mums back onside.

I mean, what’s the fecking point?

It’s the political equivalent of phoning the police on the party next door for going on past 10, or refusing to tip your waitress because she wouldn’t flirt with you. And then expecting neighbourly bonhomie and wonderful service.

If you really hate Corbyn, fine, but build on his appeal, don’t destroy it. You miserable cnuts.

Who in the party can build on that appeal? I don’t see the likes of McDonnell, Starmer or Long-Bailly enthusing the activist base as Corbyn has done.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

100% this



BUT........

Corbyn shouldn't need a audience member to bail him out. Same thing happened in the last election as well

100% not this, Wilson was pro-Remain and said so. What this person should have said was "if Wilson was currently leader of the Labour Party, Labour would have won this election easily but they've got Corbyn..."

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Where are the shy Lib Dems after that abysmal performance by Swinson? What are their plans now?

It is concerning because she needs to be able to win over Conservative votes in tactical constituencies but looks like she could be scoring a few own goals. I guess those misleading bar charts, her position to revoke article 50 (after campaigning for the referendum) and excessive criticism over Labour over the Government (!) has come back to bite her.

As for Boris Johnson, his bluster and lies can only work so much. I guess that's why the Tory strategy is to keep him away from too many open forums!

 

[SteveW]

Haven't been following this too closely. I assume Corbyn is still getting smeared from all angles.

God forbid a little bit of money gets spread around to those who badly need it.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Where are the shy Lib Dems after that abysmal performance by Swinson?

It is concerning because she needs to be able to win over Conservative votes in tactical constituencies but looks like she could be scoring a few own goals. I guess those misleading bar charts, her position to revoke article 50 (after campaigning for the referendum) and excessive criticism over Labour over the Tories has come back to bite her.

As for Boris Johnson, his bluster and lies can only work so much. I guess that's why the Tory strategy is to keep him sw at from too many open forums!

I think the revoke A50 decision was a huge mistake. Obviously for the Lib Dems they constantly have to try and be what Labour isnt, so with Labour prevaricating, and with the local and Euro elections giving them a boost, they decided to double down on Remain. But I think Corbyn's tepid interest in Remain means that even if they were "only" offering a second referendum, saying that they would be campaigning for Remain in that referendum would be enough of a differentiator to still try and push themselves as the Remain party. Instead they end up trying to justify all sorts of illogical positions around Remain.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I think the revoke A50 decision was a huge mistake. Obviously for the Lib Dems they constantly have to try and be what Labour isnt, so with Labour prevaricating, and with the local and Euro elections giving them a boost, they decided to double down on Remain. But I think Corbyn's tepid interest in Remain means that even if they were "only" offering a second referendum, saying that they would be campaigning for Remain in that referendum would be enough of a differentiator to still try and push themselves as the Remain party. Instead they end up trying to justify all sorts of illogical positions around Remain.

Its like they responded to the Tories extremism, pushing for a no deal Brexit, with the other extreme, revoke article 50.

Maybe it was needed for overall political context at the time. But it is a bad policy.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

 

[Mr Pigeon]

No surprise that Boris is getting away with it re the Russian investigation. He's said he didn't see any "evidence" to suggest wrongdoing which means that there is, but it won't matter when it comes out because his pals will protect him then as well. Sigh

 

[T00lsh3d]

Things are so bad, the Scots are seen as sane compared to us

Wow things are bad

 

[Maticmaker]

Its like they responded to the Tories extremism, pushing for a no deal Brexit, with the other extreme, revoke article 50.

Maybe it was needed for overall political context at the time. But it is a bad policy.

There always was only two extremes, that was in the nature of the choice Leave or Remain.

The revoke A50 had a slim chance when May tried three times to get her leave deal through Parliament, she could have said "Tried my best, parliament wont support my deal so its a revoke situation" or something similar! It would have caused uproar yes, but a reasonable case had been made for why revoke was now the only option.

However now with the Lib Dems its straight forward grab for votes and it totally ignores the referendum result. It will be seen by the party leadership as their only chance of staying in the game, in particular after they have taken on all the tory 'carpetbaggers' dumped by Boris. Their insults and retorts aimed at other parties are now so much bunkum and Swinson's debating position is now becoming the personification of this!

 

[RedPhil1957]

Corbyn came across as a sensible dignified decent normal person.

Swinson was absolutely appalling and Johnson was his usual shambling lying mess.

Fair comment if you think a man who thinks Venezuela is a fine example of socialism in action supports terrorists and allows Anti-Semitism to thrive in his party is a normal decent person?

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Fair comment if you think a man who thinks Venezuela is a fine example of socialism in action supports terrorists and allows Anti-Semitism to thrive in his party is a normal decent person?

Yep, I'll be voting Labour.

 

[ZupZup]

Fair comment if you think a man who thinks Venezuela is a fine example of socialism in action supports terrorists and allows Anti-Semitism to thrive in his party is a normal decent person?

Venezuela... tick
Terrorists... tick
Anti-semitism... tick

Think I’ve just completed Daily Mail bingo!!

 

[RedPhil1957]

Venezuela... tick
Terrorists... tick
Anti-semitism... tick

Think I’ve just completed Daily Mail bingo!!

Nothing to do with mail or any other news outlet --- just the truth perhaps you should visit Venezuela to see for your self the consequence of having a regime that Corbyn and his comrades support!

 

[ZupZup]

Nothing to do with mail or any other news outlet --- just the truth perhaps you should visit Venezuela to see for your self the consequence of having a regime that Corbyn and his comrades support!

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that judging by your gammony post... everything you know about Venezuela would fit on the back of a postage stamp.

Also... since your such an intelligent and worldly chap. Maybe you could share your thoughts on what has happened in Portugal over recent years under a bit of socialist anti-austerity policy?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

There always was only two extremes, that was in the nature of the choice Leave or Remain.

The revoke A50 had a slim chance when May tried three times to get her leave deal through Parliament, she could have said "Tried my best, parliament wont support my deal so its a revoke situation" or something similar! It would have caused uproar yes, but a reasonable case had been made for why revoke was now the only option.

However now with the Lib Dems its straight forward grab for votes and it totally ignores the referendum result. It will be seen by the party leadership as their only chance of staying in the game, in particular after they have taken on all the tory 'carpetbaggers' dumped by Boris. Their insults and retorts aimed at other parties are now so much bunkum and Swinson's debating position is now becoming the personification of this!

Certainly in the context of already having the referendum she campaigned for, ignoring the outcome seems a ridiculous position now.

I don't think people voting for leave vs remain in 2016 did, in reality, have a binary option between 2 extremes. Maybe the one thing I agree with Jo Swinson on is that leave is not a single choice. She believes there is no consensus for one particular type of brexit. She may be right on this. No deal certainly was not promoted as viable during 2016. And all the various deals disappoint different groups of people who voted leave.

Either way, this is why Labours position makes the most sense to me. A confirmatory referendum.

 

[Sweet Square]

100% not this, Wilson was pro-Remain and said so.

Link ? I can't find this.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Link ? I can't find this.

I had a feeling you would say that. One of the reasons I voted for him - but just for you



Even more embarrassing is that Corbyn tweeted it - what a leader!

 

[Stanley Road]

Nothing to do with mail or any other news outlet --- just the truth perhaps you should visit Venezuela to see for your self the consequence of having a regime that Corbyn and his comrades support!

I think you need to read up on why Venezuela is like it is, you might enlighten yourself and realise you are posting non truths.

 

[RedPhil1957]

Nothing to do with mail or any other news outlet --- just the truth perhaps you should visit Venezuela to see for your self the consequence of having a regime that Corbyn and his comrades support!

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that judging by your gammony post... everything you know about Venezuela would fit on the back of a postage stamp.

Also... since your such an intelligent and worldly chap. Maybe you could share your thoughts on what has happened in Portugal over recent years under a bit of socialist anti-austerity policy?

Not claiming to be an expert but have stayed in county twice staying with one of my best friends who is married to a Venezuelan.

I am interested to know how Portugal relates to Venezuela?

As I understand it Costa is a moderate and has suck by EU budget rules and yes he has eased their austerity policy but in exchange for a pull back on infrastructure spending for example electrification of railways hence the continued use of 1960 diesel trains. What the example of Portugal does show, though, is that a centre-left Government can work but that is not Corbyn, the present leadership of labour or Maduro.