U.S. Presidential Race: Official Thread

Obama or McCain/Democrat or Republican..you decide

  • McCain

    Votes: 14 7.5%

  • Obama

    Votes: 173 92.5%
  • Total voters
    187
  • Poll closed .
Plechazunga said:
Absolutely magnificent. He's gone right back up in my estimation after the abyss of that UN speech.

Thank feck that finally someone of stature has had the guts and the simple decency to say what needed to be said about the flagrant prejudice of the Republicans in this campaign. It's not enough to reassure racists that he's not an Arab or a Muslim. Someone had to stand up and say "So what if he was"? Obama and his campaign couldn't afford to, pragmatically. But Powell's stepped up and done it.

That he's done it with great eloquence, with measured, reasonable, arguments, with a story to take the headlines and an image to crystallize the story, makes it so much the better.

fecking brilliant.

Here's what he said afterwards:



Also nice to see someone pointing out that raising taxes to provide revenue doesn't make you a socialist. On the same principle as the Muslim thing, it would also be nice if someone pointed out thateven if he was a socialist, that also wouldn't make him some sort of evil Stalin-like monster whose views are automatically beyond the pale. But we might have to wait a while for that...
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You just like him because he's got the same name as you.
 
"The only thing most American know about socialism is they don't like it. They have been led to believe that socialism is something to be either ridiculed as impractical, or feared as an instrument of the devil."
- Leo Huberman

There was a poll, I cant remember the details, but a load of Americans were asked if they liked socialism, and overwhelmingly they didnt. They were then asked if they thought workers should be protected from corporate power, if they thought society had a responsibility to look after its poorest and weakest citizens and if the mega rich should pay more towards society than the poor. Overwhelmingly they said they did. And many associated these values with democracy.

A little confused, bless them.
 
At what point is this thread going need a title change? Maybe it should be called U.S. Presidential Race: Only Democratic Party Views Allowed.

The thread has gone nuts. And some of the posts about Russia/Georgia/Powell are rediculous. :lol:
 
Alex said:
They are being aggressive to the West, and US interests; what have Pakistan done
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you don't have a clue do you ? where do you think all the terrorists get there training and funding from
 
VidaRed said:
you don't have a clue do you ? where do you think all the terrorists get there training and funding from
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Interesting. Do you work for the Bush administration? Isn't that the same thing we said about Iraq and Afghanistan? Maybe we should invade them? I'm for it, I think LABOB will have a problem with it though. ;)
 
Simon Adebesi said:
"The only thing most American know about socialism is they don't like it. They have been led to believe that socialism is something to be either ridiculed as impractical, or feared as an instrument of the devil."
- Leo Huberman

There was a poll, I cant remember the details, but a load of Americans were asked if they liked socialism, and overwhelmingly they didnt. They were then asked if they thought workers should be protected from corporate power, if they thought society had a responsibility to look after its poorest and weakest citizens and if the mega rich should pay more towards society than the poor. Overwhelmingly they said they did. And many associated these values with democracy.

A little confused, bless them.
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Democracy aint actually Capitalism or Meritocracy either.
 
Cali Red said:
At what point is this thread going need a title change? Maybe it should be called U.S. Presidential Race: Only Democratic Party Views Allowed.

The thread has gone nuts. And some of the posts about Russia/Georgia/Powell are rediculous. :lol:
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The thread does sometimes stray off topic, but its not too bad.
 
Raoul said:
The thread does sometimes stray off topic, but its not too bad.
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Off topic would be one thing and that's expected in a thread of this nature but read some of the last 3 pages with an objective and unbiased mind and you'll see what I'm saying. Very ignorant and somewhat hateful stuff. And this coming from people that seem to stand against it. I enjoy a good piss take as much as anyone, hell half the time I'm on the wind up myself but this shit is stupid.
 
WeWonItTwoTimes said:
Obama's tax plan is the key issue Republicans need to focus on until election day.
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Your economy is in tatters and unemployment is on the rise, you're more or less fighting a continuous war in two countries (not to mention the global war on terror), your murder rate is the highest in the western world (and rising), you're the only wealthy, industrialized nation that doesn't have a universal health care system (half of all bankruptcy filers last year cited 'medical causes' as the main reason), something like 14% of your adult population is illiterate and more than one in ten live below the poverty line.

I have nothing against the USA, you have your issues like any country. But I'm surprised you feel that a 3% tax increase for, what, 5% of your population is what deserves the most attention in this election.
 
djemba's arse said:
Your economy is in tatters and unemployment is on the rise, you're more or less fighting a continuous war in two countries (not to mention the global war on terror), your murder rate is the highest in the western world (and rising), you're the only wealthy, industrialized nation that doesn't have a universal health care system (half of all bankruptcy filers last year cited 'medical causes' as the main reason), something like 14% of your adult population is illiterate and more than one in ten live below the poverty line.
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All of a sudden I feel so warm and fuzzy inside.
 
djemba's arse said:
Your economy is in tatters and unemployment is on the rise, you're more or less fighting a continuous war in two countries (not to mention the global war on terror), your murder rate is the highest in the western world (and rising), you're the only wealthy, industrialized nation that doesn't have a universal health care system (half of all bankruptcy filers last year cited 'medical causes' as the main reason), something like 14% of your adult population is illiterate and more than one in ten live below the poverty line.

I have nothing against the USA, you have your issues like any country. But I'm surprised you feel that a 3% tax increase for, what, 5% of your population is what deserves the most attention in this election.
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People in America are incredibly ignorant about what it takes to create a decent society. The idea of socialism on any level has been attacked for decades by our financial sector. They want all that money we use in government entitlement programs. Social Security is the big bad, because they can't get their greedy little hands on it. While their country deteriorates around them, simpletons scream and throw tantrums over the rich paying their fair share. It would be quite amusing if it wasn't so tragic. McCain loves to bring up Teddy Roosevelt and attacks Obama for "spreading the wealth." Too bad Teddy was a fan of "spreading the wealth."
As a matter of personal conviction, and without pretending to discuss the details or formulate the system, I feel that we shall ultimately have to consider the adoption of some such scheme as that of a progressive tax on all fortunes...
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The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government.
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The inheritance tax . . . is both a far better method of taxation, and far more important for the purpose of having the fortunes of the country bear in proportion to their increase in size a corresponding increase and burden of taxation.
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By the current right wing definition, their own hero was a socialist.

Pure fecking ignorance.
 
WeWonItTwoTimes said:
In news elsewhere ''Joe the Plumber'' has popped up on Huckabee's new show on Fox.

Obama's tax plan is the key issue Republicans need to focus on until election day.

Anyone with an ounce of intellect will know that if you tax the wealthy by a disproportionate amount you give everyone else less incentive to reach that level which in turn hurts the economy.

We've seen this before of course, it's called SOCIALISM, and it just doesn't work.
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You're joking, surely. Do you know the increase in marginal tax rate that Obama's tax plan will impose on the wealthy? I think it's around 7 percentage points, to about 47% for a family earning more than $100,000 a year. I suppose that's middle income, not wealthy, but everyone gets more health benefits. But, and there's a big but, marginal tax rates go down again as you earn above $130,000, because of the way that some tax benefits are rolled back. To under 30%, in fact. So arguably, Obama's tax plans incentivise middle income families to become high income families...
 
djemba's arse said:
Your economy is in tatters and unemployment is on the rise, you're more or less fighting a continuous war in two countries (not to mention the global war on terror), your murder rate is the highest in the western world (and rising), you're the only wealthy, industrialized nation that doesn't have a universal health care system (half of all bankruptcy filers last year cited 'medical causes' as the main reason), something like 14% of your adult population is illiterate and more than one in ten live below the poverty line.

I have nothing against the USA, you have your issues like any country. But I'm surprised you feel that a 3% tax increase for, what, 5% of your population is what deserves the most attention in this election.
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Good post.

However, he did say that's what Republicans will focus on. I suppose Democrats will fixate on the bail out.

Either way, anyone who self-identifies with a political party already has one foot in the feckwit camp.
 
spinoza said:
You're joking, surely. Do you know the increase in marginal tax rate that Obama's tax plan will impose on the wealthy? I think it's around 7 percentage points, to about 47% for a family earning more than $100,000 a year. I suppose that's middle income, not wealthy, but everyone gets more health benefits. But, and there's a big but, marginal tax rates go down again as you earn above $130,000, because of the way that some tax benefits are rolled back. To under 30%, in fact. So arguably, Obama's tax plans incentivise middle income families to become high income families...
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Why haven't you mentioned the people who earn above $250,000 and what Obama's tax plan will do to them?

Those people are fundamental to the success of the economy and if they're taxed too heavily they'll bugger off elsewhere.
 
djemba's arse said:
Your economy is in tatters and unemployment is on the rise, you're more or less fighting a continuous war in two countries (not to mention the global war on terror), your murder rate is the highest in the western world (and rising), you're the only wealthy, industrialized nation that doesn't have a universal health care system (half of all bankruptcy filers last year cited 'medical causes' as the main reason), something like 14% of your adult population is illiterate and more than one in ten live below the poverty line.

I have nothing against the USA, you have your issues like any country. But I'm surprised you feel that a 3% tax increase for, what, 5% of your population is what deserves the most attention in this election.
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Have you considered the consequences of that policy?
 
sincher said:
You just like him because he's got the same name as you.
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No he hasn't. His is pronounced "Coh-lin", mine's pronounced "Plechazunga"

Nistelrooy10 said:
the poll data, Obama is taking off

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7360265.stm
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He's not. Don't bother with the BBC one, it's bollocks. This site has an excellent statistical model, as far as my limited understanding can judge.

The race is tightening, as the model predicted. And even a margin of 2% would be far from comfortable, as you never know if the Republicans will cheat again.
 
Oh yes, sorry. Turns out I was wrong about that.

More reaction to Powell's endorsement:

And CNN contributor Alex Castellanos, a Republican strategist, said "Colin Powell ... is a warm glass of milk and a cookie for those voters who have a hard time going to sleep at night."
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That's racist
 
WeWonItTwoTimes said:
Why haven't you mentioned the people who earn above $250,000 and what Obama's tax plan will do to them?

Those people are fundamental to the success of the economy and if they're taxed too heavily they'll bugger off elsewhere.
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You think less than 5 percentage points increase at the federal level won't be offset by whatever state you choose to settle in? If you said that Obama's plan fecks over some middle income people I might agree with you. But you've not actually tried to understand the plans!
 
WeWonItTwoTimes said:
Have you considered the consequences of that policy?
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Do you actually know what a Laffer curve is? Do you have any evidence where the US economy sits on it?

Because Laffer didn't, really, and neither did Okun or any of the other supply side economists.

This is actually quite important, because it's the empirical justification behind the idea that tax cuts boost growth. Of course it's complicated by the intricacies of the tax code, but since you're arguing that it's the marginal tax rate at high income levels that matters, you're making the implicit assumption that the Laffer curve is real.
 
I think they were looking for short statements in bold capitals Spin.

SOCIALISM IS BAD
TAX IS BAD
POOR PEOPLE DON'T NEED DOCTORS
THE RICH WILL LEAVE IF YOU TAX THEM
 
Wibble said:
I think they were looking for short statements in bold capitals Spin.

SOCIALISM IS BAD
TAX IS BAD
POOR PEOPLE DON'T NEED DOCTORS
THE RICH WILL LEAVE IF YOU TAX THEM
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That would be the 'WeWonItTwoTimes doctrine' then, would it? Sounds rubbish, but he's argued enough to suggest that he actually believes these "facts" to be true.
 
spinoza said:
You think less than 5 percentage points increase at the federal level won't be offset by whatever state you choose to settle in? If you said that Obama's plan fecks over some middle income people I might agree with you. But you've not actually tried to understand the plans!
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Oh well that's ok then, we'll make the rich move to another state.

I understand the plans very well thank you very much. It's nothing new really, just the same old socialist dogma which we've seen countless times in the past.
 
spinoza said:
Do you actually know what a Laffer curve is? Do you have any evidence where the US economy sits on it?

Because Laffer didn't, really, and neither did Okun or any of the other supply side economists.

This is actually quite important, because it's the empirical justification behind the idea that tax cuts boost growth. Of course it's complicated by the intricacies of the tax code, but since you're arguing that it's the marginal tax rate at high income levels that matters, you're making the implicit assumption that the Laffer curve is real.
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Well there's no evidence which suggests that cutting taxes actually reduces growth whereas there is plenty to suggest that it boosts growth. We've already seen during the Bush adminstration's time in office that tax cuts can in fact bring in more tax revenue.

It's a no lose policy for me.
 
WeWonItTwoTimes said:
Well there's no evidence which suggests that cutting taxes actually reduces growth whereas there is plenty to suggest that it boosts growth. We've already seen during the Bush adminstration's time in office that tax cuts can in fact bring in more tax revenue.
.
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Yes, the Bush Administration's economic policies are exactly what we need more of. You make some fantastic points.
 
AlwaysRedwood said:
I don't expect you to. I only respond to mock you. You are a cartoon of a human being.
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peter-griffin.jpg
 
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