He would be a bit of a gamble, he had a bad injury at Depotive back in 2010 when he broke his Ankle, Fibula and Tibia. Amazingly he only missed 4 months or so.
He also has a contract until 2017
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He would be a bit of a gamble, he had a bad injury at Depotive back in 2010 when he broke his Ankle, Fibula and Tibia. Amazingly he only missed 4 months or so.
He also has a contract until 2017
I'd love to know what you think the definition of dynamism is if you think either of these players have any of it in spades. Ditto for energy, because in high octane midfield battles both would be found wanting. Short passing is a matter of definition; by northern European standards, both would be regarded as high up the list, by Latin standards, they are both short of the ability to chain and recycle the ball rapidly under intense pressure.
This is without mentioning neither are particularly great at working space for themselves when surrounded ala the very best midfielders out there.
No. It's missing a hell of a lot more than that.
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We really need a player who can drive from deep and has that bit of magic in his boots to turn play on its head at any given time or opportunistic moment, imo.
If only we could clone Scholes
Wow. Have you actually watched Strootman for Roma this year? I mean seriously? Dynamism and energy with good passing combined. He was the engine for their great attack, before he got injured. One of the best players in Serie A. What do you even mean by northern European standards? Yeah I mean that Guardiola guy has nothing on you and is rating Kroos passing incredible high. I mean Kroos isn't as good as he was at the beginning of the season but you're really selling 2 of the best CMs in Europe incredibly short.
Kroos btw is the closest thing I've seen to Paul Scholes in recent years.
Scholes driving from deep? Not the one I watched. He was the master of the late surge into the box to score, but a dynamic dribbler that would power through the midfield he was not. These players are incredibly rare. The best ones, at least.
Serie A is a different ball park. Do you think the midfields there are the current pinnacle of the game? Granted, you can take a few of their midfielders and call them top class, but as a whole, the midfield battle there is not the same as seen in the top leagues or in Europe. Strootman has some good attributes, no doubt, but dynamism? Once again, I'd ask you what your definition of that word is, or, to name a few more midfielders who you believe have it in abundance.
Strootman is also one-paced; solid and consistent at that pace, but one-paced nonetheless. It remains to be seen what will happen when knocked out of that comfort zone in a more ferocious league than he's experienced thus far in his career. I'm not saying he can't meet the bar, but I wouldn't see it as a dead certainty like I would for someone like Vidal, who plays in the same league as he does.
It should be pretty obvious what I mean by Nothern European standards - it's a completely different style of football and you'll be hard-pressed to find players who can zip the ball around with such effortless ease as you get in La Liga from the general Iberian & South American base of players you have stacked there. I think Modric is the best exception currently as he's shown with his displays in the league and Europe.
You're point about Guardiola is misleading. He works with what he has there, and clearly, Kroos is a talent (I wasn't disputing that) but he has holes in his game, which were overlooked in the posts I quoted.
And about Kroos: I've said as much myself, somewhere on here. But as close to Scholes... he's about half the player currently.
I meant with the ball i.e. quick passing and release more than a Yaya-esque marauding through midfield.
Kroos is an exceptional passer of the ball. His passing is as fast, consistent and as switched on as any top midfielder in Europe. Scholes is mentioned, and other than Fabregas I don't think there is a more suitable comparison to a mid-to-late era Scholes than Kroos.
And I'm not sure how a player that is a regular for one of the most dominant midfields Europe has seen is "half the player" that Scholes is. Scholes had more strings to his bow, but let's be realistic when it comes to just how good this Bayern team has been.
The Scholes-like quality comes from the ease at which he pings passes around, making anything from a 2 yard pass to a 40 yard pass look like a piece of piss. He's also brilliantly two footed to the extent that he barely favours his right at all. He also has a comparably brilliant long range shot and good positional awareness. He's terrible at tackling, so there's that too.
The main difference for me is the energy that Scholes had for the majority of his career. He's a hard player to compare others with as he basically had three positions over his career - a deep forward, a box to box midfielder of sorts and a deep lying playmaker. The main criticism with Kroos is that off the ball you often see him ambling about rather than charging into people like a mad thing like Scholes did. Pace isn't really an issue with that sort of player but he plays most of the game at a walking pace (more of a compliment tbh) but he looks ungainly when he's forced to move into anything more than a jog.
The main difference for me is the energy that Scholes had for the majority of his career. He's a hard player to compare others with as he basically had three positions over his career - a deep forward, a box to box midfielder of sorts and a deep lying playmaker. The main criticism with Kroos is that off the ball you often see him ambling about rather than charging into people like a mad thing like Scholes did. Pace isn't really an issue with that sort of player but he plays most of the game at a walking pace (more of a compliment tbh) but he looks ungainly when he's forced to move into anything more than a jog.
Exceptional is Xavi and Iniesta in their pomps. Kroos is a good passer of the ball and hasn't proven himself effective or penetrative in his own right in the really big games yet, until he does, it's a statement with little to back it up as we already know in a team playing well Kroos is a fine player.
Been when? This season? Last season?
What was Kroos' input last season? Was Kroos effective come crunch time this season?
You're telling me to be realistic, and then trying to pair (or par, even) Kroos with Scholes, seriously?
It doesn't matter what category you pick (except two-footedness), Scholes trumps Kroos, that may change in the future, but from what he's done to date, he's about half the player Scholes was.
This reflects my feelings on him tbh. His overall passing stats might've been impressive as always but I felt the other night was one of the worst games I've seen him play. He utterly ran the games away at Arsenal and City and has put in some brilliant performances since dropping deep so I was surprised to see him slice even just a couple of long range passes. He's one of a select few in world football that can completely run a game from midfield.
Kroos played almost every game last season until injury forced Muller into the middle and Robben back into the side. Kroos was more of a 10 then but now he seems to have found his place in a deeper role and some of his performances this season have certainly been comparable to Scholes. Obviously both Scholes and Xavi are true greats in their generation and it will take Kroos a long time to be on par with them, but at his age his career seems to be going a similar way.
Please don't think I don't rate Kroos; he's a fine player and I'd love him here, but you have grasped my point by calling the players you listed 'true greats' Kroos has a long way to go to be in that bracket and for all his skill, he's not yet seen as a world class player because he's not done enough at the pinnacle of the game yet to be regarded as such. I've no doubt he will, but as of right now, he has a way to go to leave an indelible stamp on the biggest games.
Right I'm stopping you there because I can't be chewed with bullshitters. At no, point, ever, did I say that Kroos is on par with Scholes. Stop that shite. He isn't.
Kroos isn't Xavi or Iniesta, but nobody is. Ignoring that Barcelona side, there are very few players that lie there and distribute the ball in that Scholes-like manner, whether that be out wide or through to the attackers in front, the way Kroos does. Alonso has always been good at it, as has Modric to a degree, as is Fabregas. Kroos is up there within that echelon of passing talent, easily.
And yes, last season, when he was a regular in the team that won the treble, dominating a number of sides throughout an exceptional campaign. Kroos was a regular in that team at the age of 23. Now, I don't think Kroos is as good as Scholes and I don't expect he will be, however, he's achieved more at 23 than Scholes had done at the same age. Scholes was becoming a regular in a very good United side. Kroos has been playing very well, regularly, for the best side in the whole of Europe.
As for this season, and I haven't watched the Bundesliga, but Pep Guardiola has opted to play him regularly, and by all accounts he's played very well, particularly earlier in the season. Idiots have went into meltdown since that result the other night. Bayern Munich win the league, get to a cup final and have the audacity to get beaten by the most expensive team ever assembled in a Champions League semi-final. Suddenly, we're dissecting everybody and everything within that team.
Either way, almost every criticism you made about both Strootman and Kroos could have been said about Carrick and Scholes. Yes, we could do with that bit extra energy in midfield, but this Gary Neville soundbite of dynamism, whereby some people are looking for a Tyson Gay in the middle of the park, has been taken a bit too seriously. Kroos is incredibly similar to Scholes, and I don't even think that's up for debate.
Louis van Gaal will be confirmed as Manchester United's new manager next week, reports the annoyingly reliable @Ian_Ladyman_DM
Since when is Ian Ladyman reliable? Doesn't he produce about 50 articles a week with his method seeming to be "thrown enough shit around something may stick"
Did he not publish an article about the players being bad professionals and were disrespecting Moyes?
He must have contacts then.
I always thought he was "tier 2" in terms of reliability, behind the likes of Ogden, Taylor, Ducker, and Mitten.
'Half the player' to me lays in the fact he can distribute the ball and have control the way he does, the other half that's lacking that Scholes had in spades is: goal-scoring, attacking awareness (ghosting), ease of playing himself out of supposed closed lanes either with one-touch or deftness of short body movements (feints, shoulder drops etc), heading, cunning, guile etc, etc, if you took Kroos' and Scholes' passing away, you're left with a thunderous shot for Kroos and still a hell of player in Scholes.
Kroos was injured before Bayern's campaign got really serious last season, and, perhaps we can say Muller took all his plaudits away when the world was truly starting to take notice of Bayern as a force (before they trounced Barca), it's not Kroos' fault that his spotlight was taken away, but it is a stretch to simply say he would have carried through the whole campaign as he started it, as we have proof this term that he again started off like a house on fire and seemed to wane as the games got tougher. Modric came out of this year's SF's looking like a superstar over both legs, I felt Kroos was OK, but nothing to write home about in this esteemed company, which we can safely say should be his peers given his reputation and ability.
I think Strootman/Carrick is a very fair matchup, but there's a gulf between Scholes and Kroos as outlined in my first paragraph, which makes the comparison quite redundant unless Kroos steps up massively.
Anyone called Ladyman must have serious issues about people paying attention to what he says.
Yeah, Like people calling you cheap.
Sporting President Bruno de Carvalho: "I'm almost sure William Carvalho will stay at Sporting for another year."
Nope. Ahead of ducker and on par with Taylor
Ducker's work seems a lot more concise, though Ladyman will be under a lot more pressure due to the Mail's volume of sports reporting. He's got more to dig and more to get wrong.
It's easy when Woodward drip feeds everything these days.
It's easy when Woodward drip feeds everything these days.
Ogden is the best one ATM for me, he gets the most details and is always the first to break a story. Ogden, Ducker and Mitten and sometimes Taylor are the top four.
Almost sure? I'll take that.
1)Sporting Lisbon are financial stable, they don't need to sell William like revious years with heir top talents
2)Clubs are NOT willing to pay the £37.5m, they want to settle for less, but Sporting won't budge because 1)
Sporting Pres Carvalho: "We're not exclusively a selling club. If a club pays €45m then we don't need to speak."
So, there is Carvalho's price.
I don't think he'd be a top target right now like he was a few months back when we had Moyes. I can't see anyone paying that much - Madrid are the only other team who seem clearly interested but I think they'd take their money elsewhere for someone a little more proven. Unless of course, he rips a new one in the World Cup.
Id be disappointed. That kid looks like he is going to be a star
Looks like Carvalho is staying then.... O well on to the next.
He'l move this summer and for the 30mil mark. Whether its to us, that's another thing.
Sounds like Luke is a Shaw thing, if this story is true.
Interesting. What'll happen to Azpilicueta in all this? Will he just be on the bench as cover for both sides?
Abramovich loves his Brazilians, doesn't he?
I'd imagine he'll be back on the right and Ivanovic will play in the center. Terry isn't getting any younger.
He's a right back isn't he?
Couthious to Ath permanently then imho.
Yup. I'd presume he'd go to right back, with Ivanovic at CB.
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