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He's a good squad player. A very good number 2 or three to a main striker. He hasn't the composure to be a main striker at a club this size, especially if we continue with current formation.

20 Mil is a lot though, I'd be tempted. Would rather sell hernandez for that amount and keep welbeck.

Don't think the stories of him wanting to leave are true at all
 
Plugsy said:
It probably is too harsh but the ridiculous over-rating of the lad forces a dichotomy of language. In truth he's a decent squad player/rotation option but around here that description isn't good enough or acceptable, so instead he's "brilliant" or "fantastic" or "hey look here's a stat that proves he's better than Messi", and I think that people who disagree with that almost feel obliged to be perhaps overly harsh as a result.
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No they started it.
 
Tibs said:
Welbeck can go, he's a squad player who falls over a lot. Not a big loss
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Some of you won't realise Welbeck's potential until he's proving himself leading the line somewhere else. Classic case of 'you don't know what you've got until it's gone'.

Who wants a squad full of expensive mercenaries like City rather than quality homegrown players who love the club and who hurt like the fans do when we don't do well?
 
Steven Seagull said:
No they started it.
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They really didn't, you only have to look at various threads on the mains to see how any reasonable criticism of him is treated. It's not exactly a secret to question his composure in front of goal or balance, but even that can't happen. If people were realistic about Welbeck's abilities and potential maybe people would be fairer to him than someone who is "shit and falls over". That's a ridiculous description, of course but it's no more ridiculous than people who massively over inflate what he can do because of where he comes from.
 
Varun said:
That cant be an excuse though. That comes with being at a top club, you'l always have top players as competition. He's done well though, whenever he's played. What he needs now is a season as striker, no fecking about and I dont see it happening here.
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It's not really an excuse. He is a 21-23 year old facing competition for the sole spot of the striker against two veterans(RVP and Rooney) in their prime and a very good striker (Hernandez) just into his prime. And he was coming along very well in the 2011-12 season along with Hernandez and Rooney. You have to consider that he is a young learning striker and not a seasoned pro, who got displaced by a vastly superior player. His development suffered as many expected.
Anyways, sending him off on loan now would be a big mistake considering the facts that Hernandez seems to be eager for the door out and our top two strikers are injury prone. And who would he have to learn from at a club like Everton? There are no top strikers there nor they have or will have European football(Arsenal will get fourth). His days of developing just from playing regularly are far over. Sending him off would just cause us more problems in our seasonal injury crisis. Rvp is infamous for his injuries and Rooney is no longer the man who stays fit all season long. Welbeck has got enough games to play up top as this season has shown. Last season's Rvp's injury-less presence was a freak happenstance.
 
Sunny Jim said:
Well its David MoyeS on charge. A guy who wants to sell Nani and keep Val&Young, he also want to sell Hernandez. Is that a surpirse?
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It's all rumours so far, ones coming from the Sun and the Mirror, so we will see if there's any truth to it.
 
LR7 said:
Some of you won't realise Welbeck's potential until he's proving himself leading the line somewhere else. Classic case of 'you don't know what you've got until it's gone'.

Who wants a squad full of expensive mercenaries like City rather than quality homegrown players who love the club and who hurt like the fans do when we don't do well?
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Yeah but the two sentences don't necessarily complement each other. There are a number of players I'd have in the squad that I wouldn't necessarily see as a leading light elsewhere, at least at rival clubs. I think Welbeck could have a very good career if he stepped down a level and played for a club where the forward players get more time on the ball than they do here or at any of the top-level clubs; a Fulham or a West Ham or a Southampton would be very good for him.

That's kind of the level I see him at. Here, barring an injury crisis he really shouldn't, in an ideal world, be on the team sheet for the starting XI that often as I think if we look at rival clubs both here and abroad and also within our own ranks and players of similar age, Kagawa, Rafael, Mata, De Gea are all in their own way and own positions far, far more advanced than Welbeck and the gulf is quite significant. Whereas at Newcastle, to use one example, he'd perhaps be on par with if not better than what's already there and as a result his career will benefit.
 
Outside the box he looks as good as anyone in our squad, he's fast, can take on a player and his work rate is unquestionable but its his play in and around the box where he comes up short. Iv seen him play against arguably the 2 best sides in Europe (Madrid/Bayern) in the past year and at times he scared the shit out of them, if he can sort out his finishing he will be a top player. Either way he's much better than Young and id have Welbeck over Valencia as well, it would be mad to sell him.
 
He's someone who our fans won't fully appreciate it until he's playing elsewhere. Then we'll get the usual nonsense from the same people asking why he was sold/loaned
 
If he sells Danny ... oh dear! Will we recognise our old club (before DM joined it) at all next season? We could end up only with DDG, Rooney, Mata and that useless "never-a-midfielder-but-excellent-chest-control" Fellaini, aren't we? Hope DM leaves before he completely turns us into his old Everton!
 
"If he can't sort out his finishing..."

Did nobody watch when he was given a run up front this season or should we ignore that and only take into account how he's done on the wing?
 
LR7 said:
"If he can't sort out his finishing..."

Did nobody watch when he was given a run up front this season or should we ignore that and only take into account how he's done on the wing?
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Maybe we should also take into account that while playing on the wing he'd get plenty of opportunities still in front of goal. There's no 'only centre-forwards shoot' policy, and many of the games where he's on the pitch, even those he starts out wide, he usually plays a significant part of the game up front anyway. He wasn't behind a barrier on the left, he'd drift into the middle for large periods of the game, Rooney or whomever else would drift wider or deeper, it's just how it is.

He found himself central and through the middle a hell of a lot more than most wide players have for us this season. Even out wide his actual positioning and chances in games makes his average of 6 goals a league season for us so far, still legitimate to criticise
 
Why would he leave when he looks like a much improved player this year? He performed really well against Bayern and when we didn't have both RVP and Rooney through injury, he won us games with his goals.
 
On the topic of the actual tweet: it's bollocks. If Danny left, it would be the low point of a truly shite season.

On the topic of whether Danny Welbeck is a good footballer: I can't be bothered anymore. If you can't see his talent, that's a shame.
 
I think it's important that Welbeck stays at the club. We need academy produce in and around the first team in order to tempt players at a youth level. If they can't see a path to our first team then why join? They need that motivation and Cleverley won't exactly be providing it any time soon.
 
Nickosaur said:
On the topic of the actual tweet: it's bollocks. If Danny left, it would be the low point of a truly shite season.

On the topic of whether Danny Welbeck is a good footballer: I can't be bothered anymore. If you can't see his talent, that's a shame.
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So True.
 
ManUtd43vr said:
It's not really an excuse. He is a 21-23 year old facing competition for the sole spot of the striker against two veterans(RVP and Rooney) in their prime and a very good striker (Hernandez) just into his prime. And he was coming along very well in the 2011-12 season along with Hernandez and Rooney. You have to consider that he is a young learning striker and not a seasoned pro, who got displaced by a vastly superior player. His development suffered as many expected.
Anyways, sending him off on loan now would be a big mistake considering the facts that Hernandez seems to be eager for the door out and our top two strikers are injury prone. And who would he have to learn from at a club like Everton? There are no top strikers there nor they have or will have European football(Arsenal will get fourth). His days of developing just from playing regularly are far over. Sending him off would just cause us more problems in our seasonal injury crisis. Rvp is infamous for his injuries and Rooney is no longer the man who stays fit all season long. Welbeck has got enough games to play up top as this season has shown. Last season's Rvp's injury-less presence was a freak happenstance.
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You seem to have misunderstood. I'm not advocating sending him out on loan. I'm saying that if these rumors were indeed true (they're bollocks imo), rather than selling him, we should send him on loan for a year so that he can play regularly as a striker and then once he's back, he should be ready to become a 1st teamer for us.
 
Varun said:
You seem to have misunderstood. I'm not advocating sending him out on loan. I'm saying that if these rumors were indeed true (they're bollocks imo), rather than selling him, we should send him on loan for a year so that he can play regularly as a striker and then once he's back, he should be ready to become a 1st teamer for us.
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Went through your posts again. Yeah, I misunderstood. Agree now that a loan would be better than him leaving.
 
Before this season I said that Welbeck needs to sort out his finishing if he wants a future at O.T - and he certainly has improved a lot.

We saw against Bayern what he can do if given the chance. Welbeck stays, end of story!
 
Nickosaur said:
On the topic of the actual tweet: it's bollocks. If Danny left, it would be the low point of a truly shite season.

On the topic of whether Danny Welbeck is a good footballer: I can't be bothered anymore. If you can't see his talent, that's a shame.
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Exactly this.
 
Plugsy said:
Maybe we should also take into account that while playing on the wing he'd get plenty of opportunities still in front of goal. There's no 'only centre-forwards shoot' policy, and many of the games where he's on the pitch, even those he starts out wide, he usually plays a significant part of the game up front anyway. He wasn't behind a barrier on the left, he'd drift into the middle for large periods of the game, Rooney or whomever else would drift wider or deeper, it's just how it is.

He found himself central and through the middle a hell of a lot more than most wide players have for us this season. Even out wide his actual positioning and chances in games makes his average of 6 goals a league season for us so far, still legitimate to criticise
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I don't think he's scored on the wing at all this season, yet he went on a run of 5 goals in 6 games when playing as a striker. Go figure. All of his goals have come in the few games he's had playing as a striker this season. He's just not very good scoring goals when he plays wide but it's a phenomenally different story when given a run up front. You'd have to be blind not to see it. He will make a very good striker when he consistently plays there.

If we let him go, I have no doubt we will see a similar pattern as what we have seen with Chelsea letting Sturridge go to Liverpool.

I actually feel sorry for those who can see his talent and potential.
 
But he's still a broadly forward/attacking player. Yes he may play large periods of the game out wide but he also spends large periods of the game up front, even when he starts on the right/left. He's not like a Valencia who will get home-sickness if he wanders into the box or finds himself in the middle. He is afford/takes plenty of chances in front of goal for his goal scoring record to be relevant to any assessment of his career or even the last two seasons.
 
Plugsy said:
But he's still a broadly forward/attacking player. Yes he may play large periods of the game out wide but he also spends large periods of the game up front, even when he starts on the right/left. He's not like a Valencia who will get home-sickness if he wanders into the box or finds himself in the middle. He is afford/takes plenty of chances in front of goal for his goal scoring record to be relevant to any assessment of his career or even the last two seasons.
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He doesn't score goals there. Yet people want to judge him on his goal scoring when playing wide. He scored two goals when playing wide all of last season yet he's scored more than four times as many since being given more time up front this season.

9 goals in 9 starts and 5 sub appearances as a striker this season. A goal every 102 minutes when played as a striker. Compared to zero goals in 357 minutes on the wings (credit to @Chabon for the stats).

Why would you ignore that?
 
I don't get the Welbeck love in, do people find it acceptable the amount of times in big games he has golden chances only to fluff them?

If anyone was seriously offering 20m for Welbeck I'd bite their arm off!! Until he can improve his finishing he's going to cost us more games than he helps win
 
charlenefan said:
I don't get the Welbeck love in, do people find it acceptable the amount of times in big games he has golden chances only to fluff them?

If anyone was seriously offering 20m for Welbeck I'd bite their arm off!! Until he can improve his finishing he's going to cost us more games than he helps win
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Because it's that black and white.
 
Pexbo said:
Because it's that black and white.
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It isn't but there's undeniably huge areas of his game that he frankly does need to step up. What worries me is whether hope has usurped expectation. If Welbeck was the player he is now aged 18 you'd be very excited. As he approaches 24, not so much. I think he's a player capable of having a sterling career at most top table clubs but here I dont think he'll ever be more than squad rotation/back-up.
 
Varun said:
He's a local lad and we're a huge club. Am pretty sure he'd be fine with a loan spell at say Everton for a year if he can come back a much better player capable of starting for us regularly.



That cant be an excuse though. That comes with being at a top club, you'l always have top players as competition. He's done well though, whenever he's played. What he needs now is a season as striker, no fecking about and I dont see it happening here.
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He is a local lad but if he's a bit part player, the you can send why he would want to move on.

Some players are happy being squad players at big clubs and picking up trophies - we've had a few of those sand fair enough.

Some players have more ambition - and fair play to them. In terms of England he'll k ow he needs to playing to get a regular start, so I can see why he would take what would be a difficult decision.

You're right - he needs to play and no doubt he wants to play for the best side he can. If Spurs come in for him they won't want him on loan I suspect. Eve. If thru did the would surely want an option to buy.

Short of him going out and suddenly improving hugely I don't think he is ever going to be a first choice forward here with the squad that we have. That's without even considering youth players coming through or new signings. With that on mind a big fee, to be invested in areas where we are light would be good business.
 
I've been critical of Danny in the past, but he has shown me more than enough this season for him to be a valuable member of the squad. I think he is slowly but surely getting there.
 
Plugsy said:
It probably is too harsh but the ridiculous over-rating of the lad forces a dichotomy of language. In truth he's a decent squad player/rotation option but around here that description isn't good enough or acceptable, so instead he's "brilliant" or "fantastic" or "hey look here's a stat that proves he's better than Messi", and I think that people who disagree with that almost feel obliged to be perhaps overly harsh as a result.
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I can see why people like him - honest player, works his socks off and is home grown.

Fact is he's a good player and very useful - but just not quite good enough to make a forward place his own, and I don't think you can make a case that he should be given that place either.

There are issues in his game - mainly a lack of composure. Some seem to think he's still going to become a top class forward, but sadly I don't see anything to suggest that.

A very valuable squad player without a doubt great to have in the squad. But if he wants more than that - good luck to him for not taking the easy option.
 
Rozay said:
I've been critical of Danny in the past, but he has shown me more than enough this season for him to be a valuable member of the squad. I think he is slowly but surely getting there.
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So out of interest, next season, would you be happy if RVP was moved on and Welbeck was given the job of leading the line?
 
RedRover said:
So out of interest, next season, would you be happy if RVP was moved on and Welbeck was given the job of leading the line?
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No. I want Welbeck to be a squad player right now, which he has demonstrated he is good enough to do.
 
This thread is now getting my blood pressure up.

Hopefully these stories are bollocks, but given three papers are now reporting it, there's certainly been some briefing going on somewhere.
 
RedRover said:
He is a local lad but if he's a bit part player, the you can send why he would want to move on.

Some players are happy being squad players at big clubs and picking up trophies - we've had a few of those sand fair enough.

Some players have more ambition - and fair play to them. In terms of England he'll k ow he needs to playing to get a regular start, so I can see why he would take what would be a difficult decision.

You're right - he needs to play and no doubt he wants to play for the best side he can. If Spurs come in for him they won't want him on loan I suspect. Eve. If thru did the would surely want an option to buy.

Short of him going out and suddenly improving hugely I don't think he is ever going to be a first choice forward here with the squad that we have. That's without even considering youth players coming through or new signings. With that on mind a big fee, to be invested in areas where we are light would be good business.
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At a club like ours with the number of games we play, he only has to be among the 2 best strikers to play maybe 40 games a season. Top 3 strikers to play 30 odd games and both assuming Moyes sees sense and moves to a 1 striker system without this Rooney at AM nonsense. So, there is still a great chance Welbeck can get plenty of games as striker here but with RVP and Rooney staying, its tough if we change our formation.

As I said, I can totally understand if he wants to move to further his career which is why am saying we should look to loan him out then rather than sell.
 
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