Yeah I get that. When you think about it, what we paid for Rio back then probably still hasn't been matched in terms of inflation. Huge money. I do think buying from Portugal is a risk, though. It's very similar to Holland in that you can never be sure. I'd like my defenders to be a little more proven for this kind of cash.
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Yeah I get that. When you think about it, what we paid for Rio back then probably still hasn't been matched in terms of inflation. Huge money. I do think buying from Portugal is a risk, though. It's very similar to Holland in that you can never be sure. I'd like my defenders to be a little more proven for this kind of cash.
Mangala is meant to be the hottest property in the defensive market, so can't just say it's too much.
And someone mentioned the Ferdinand deal. Although prices calmed down straight after that, which was typical!
And someone mentioned the Ferdinand deal. Although prices calmed down straight after that, which was typical!
Osvaldo to Juventus on loan. What a flop. I know he's leaving because of the fight but he's been shite apart from the City goal.
Not sure I'd put him in the flop category so quickly he's been good for them when I've seen him but he's clearly a loose cannon.
Was there ever much hype around him to consider him a flop? Even with Southampton fans?
No but when you pay £15m and if you are the biggest transfer of the club's history in terms of fees, then you have to show that on the pitch.
rather than Mangala (who I havent seen much admittedly) id rather use that money (or cash + kagawa) to get Hummels from Dortmund
I don't see Hummels as the quickest defenders. We need someone with Physicality and pace which Mangala has.
Fair point. I don't think he's been that bad on the pitch as it happens and without his off field antics he probably would have settled even better given that has wasn't terrible IMHO.
Poor goal return is the main reason for people calling him a flop I'd guess.
A friend of mine who has seen Mangala a few times this season compares him to Desailly in terms of build and style of play.
Are you friends with Big Ron?
Not going to post this in the actual tweets thread because...it's not a tweet. It's also likely not true so I won't bother creating a thread on the guy. Goal say we've made a bid for Otamendi who, intriguingly, plays for Porto alongside Mangala.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892...unch-123m-bid-for-porto-defender?ICID=HP_HN_1
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892...unch-123m-bid-for-porto-defender?ICID=HP_HN_1
Sounds good. Sign him already
He then followed with
I don't know how to embed tweets so I put it here. How the hell does it work? I've been copying the code that shows up in "embed tweet" into the media thing here, but it says URL not good.
Find it rather strange if United are (or were) going for Otamendi. I really appreciate him as a player, but I'd say he's at about his level here. And not that consistent.
You need to click the time stamp of when the tweet was posted then just copy whats in the address bar and paste it into your post directly.
Thanks The Great Don!
Click the time posted on the right of the tweet ('1m' or whatever it is) and then just copy the url into the comment. The caf will do the rest for you.
Edit: TDon wins.
Aye, thank you as well sir. Already done it.
They won't let go of Mangala, Fernando and Otamendi on deadline day. No chance.
Its Porto, they'd sell the grass on the pitch if they could. However, they'd also go out and buy cheap grass as a replacement and somebody will buy that grass in the next window for 150 million.
Not sure I'd want Otamendi. We don't have a particularly urgent need for a CB, it could certainly wait until the summer. Plus any CB we get would need to be of very high quality to be a worthwhile signing, not an area we need a squad player is it? Unless anyone thinks he has it in him to make a big step up in quality?
I wouldn't trust on it. Don't think Otamendi will be going to United, but wouldn't be surprised to see us lose all 3. I think they're cleaning the house for a new cycle. Not hiring a better manager makes me think we almost gave up on this season, and just 3 points behind the top in the league, and risking finishing 3rd (and having to go to the CL play-off) seems way too stupid. But there are signs pointing towards this being the case.
4 first XI players gone in January? Insane. But Porto has changed a lot for the worse in recent years.
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You would think that by now, scouts would no longer scout players, but scout Porto's scouts, stalk their every move, and buy any player they look like buying. Clubs would save themselves a fortune!
Too right, man. Its unreal how much talent has moved through that club, throughout the years.
I think people often ignore the fact (well, not a fact, my opinion) that for many of these players, blossoming is playing first team football. Had United signed Mangala a couple of years ago who knows how many games he would have under his legs? Certainly very few, with so many more experienced players ahead of him. He is now an experienced CL footballer. Would United also buy a player (with unproved value at the time) like Falcao or Jackson Martínez and give him enough minutes or he would be a second/third choice for years on end? Going straight to the top clubs is not necessarily the best option for most players.
Also, many of them never really make it. We're not "profiting" from this sort of business, you're forgetting to equate many players that don't live up to their value. It's also a numbers game. For each big sale we make, three half-nobodies will come but only one will make it.
Not to forget that the working visa thing makes these things more complicated for English clubs as well.
A few noticeable exceptions exist. A player like Moutinho was sold by Sporting to Porto because they never had a better offer for him and he was pushing to leave. A classy player all his life since his debut at 17 or 18, spent 5 years at Sporting and no one ever noticed him or made a decent 15m offer for him (we got him for 11m). Criminally underrated throughout his career. Porto sold the likes of Meireles for 15m to Liverpool and replaced him with a much better 4m cheaper player. I would guess football clubs had professional scouts watching these players week in week out.
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We were linked a lot with Falcao before he went to Porto, and he'd certainly have got his chances here when you take into account Chicharito's time (would've been first choice here had his touch been sounder). Of course, if they're rough gems and need a lot of game time to shine then you have a point, but for the most part we do stick with players when they show talent.
Yeah, we clearly have a more experienced network at making deals in that continent. Liverpool was on to Martínez as well, but we managed to out-negotiate them. I just don't think you could afford the squad space to sign so many youngster like we do.
Agreed there, we'll mainly go for them only if they're young enough to spend some time in the youth setup or are clearly talented enough to challenge for the first team. I suppose one example against my last post would be someone like Angelo Henriquez who's spent most of his time since joining us out on loan, though he is still young.
What was Mangala like when you signed him, though? I notice he didn't play much last season, did he need to wait for a chance to show his quality or has he just improved a lot?
Yeah, I certainly agree with your first point. Personally, I'm of the belief that young players, unless we're talking Messi, Ronaldo, Fabregas, Januzaj types, are best off spending as much time as possible at a weaker club, accumulating regular games and experience along the way until they are ready to step straight in. Defenders are particularly held back due to the need for a regular, ever-present back line. It's why buying the likes of Mangala doesn't interest me. I'm certain that if allowed the same kind of room to grow, Smalling and Jones here, the rest will take care of itself. Like your overall point suggests, if Mangala had moved to United at 19 then he would not have been afforded the same luxuries in terms of game time and personal development.
He didn't play much at the beginning, grabbed the spot after an injury to one of our first-choice CB's (Maicon) and never lost it since. He's shown his impressive physique from the start (he's incredibly fast and jumps immensely for someone of his size), committed a few mistakes here and there, and still does it from time to time, but steadily improving I'd say. He's also good on a ball for a CB (and overconfident at that as well, needs to pick his moments better). Definitely not a sure starter at the best of teams (what you'd expect for a €42m CB, but then again it's City) but I think there's a very good chance he'll be immense in the near future.
Right, so why don't we just send all our promising youngsters to Porto, on long term loan? They'd get game time and CL experience, play in a very technical league and come back with a nice tan. (not Vincent)
@Arruda ...set this up immediately!
@Arruda ...set this up immediately!
@Arruda do you think Porto might line-up Diego Reyes if either one of them leaves?
Aren't they able to get Work Permits more easily? Plus they must do third party deals a fair bit which English clubs wouldn't like?
The president clearly hinted at that in his last interview (something along the lines of "the replacements are already here"). He has barely played in the first team though, starting him now in such a pressuring part of the season might be throwing him to the wolves. I also don't know if he's bulked up since, but he looked very light-weight for a CB in the beginning of the season. People who watch our B team play (I don't) seem very impressed with him.
Work permits probably make a difference, yes.
Third party deals are a necessity to dilute the risk of these signings. They usually already come with some sort of third-party involved, and it continues when they're here, so that's not relevant to the case. Porto decides when and for how much to sell, the third party collects the profit or loss passively, and the buying club gets the whole player. For example, from City's reported €42m for Mangala only about €30m or less will come to Porto.
I see. He's quite good, from what I saw here and with the national team. I don't think he will make the world cup though, since he hasn't been playing and it might not be good, as you say to promote him just like that. I think he will turn good for you in a couple of years.
It's someone filming their computer screen
Feckin amateurs.- Status