Turning on Rangnick

It's simple. A lot of this squad are overpaid, entitled individuals.
Ralf came in and tried to implement his style. They wouldn't give it a chance so he had to revert to what suited them.
He rightfully called them out and refreshingly spoke openly about the need for new players.
They have now thrown another manager under the bus but this one isn't bothered cos he was only staying until the end of the season anyway.
 
arthurka said:
There seems to be that there are still a lot of us who do not fault the players. How we still blame the managers is baffling to me.
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Who’s not blaming the players? They obviously aren’t good enough.

But if we use your logic no manager should ever be sacked as it’s the players fault.
VanDeBank said:
Not if you don't include the players that should be sold based on lack of footballing ability.
I mentioned this in the post you quoted. ("with toxicity in mind")

Single training session :lol:

If you say so...
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Yes a single training session! It’s that obvious!
 
Stumpy said:
i honestly can’t believe what I’m read about Ralph. The guy has been here a few months and that’s it. He’s dealing with the same players who sold the other managers down the river but you lot still blame him. It’s absolutely laughable. If you lot think he’s in there for tactical reasons then you’re delusional as he’s only in the there to pick the crap out and be a mole. Why else would we have an interim who is staying in a consultant role? Forget about his tactics and focus on the fact that he’ll be getting rid of the crap you all hate and us proper fans in the stretty all feel the same.

stop being part of the problem and support the current manager and get behind Ten Haag
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Absolutely and as previously mentioned, I think a substantial portion of blame lies with former chief scouts, Jim Lawlor and Marcel Bout for making a pigs ear of the club.

They’re the chief culprits responsible for bringing in the rubbish at astronomically inflated prices we’re now saddled with. It’s also the reason we didn’t make the necessary signings during the January window that Ralf had strongly recommended.
 
He needs called out, worst interim appointment I can remember. Players have been a joke but he's not improved one player or the team. All these fan channels defending him too, a breath of fresh air. Is he really? Calling out players then playing them a few games later, any person could point out the glaring deficiencies. Managers get the best out of what you have. Tactically, mentality, shape or even individually. He might be great behind the scenes building and recruiting, starting to get annoyed how he's immune to criticism. Especially from our fan base.
 
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Stumpy said:
i honestly can’t believe what I’m read about Ralph. The guy has been here a few months and that’s it. He’s dealing with the same players who sold the other managers down the river but you lot still blame him. It’s absolutely laughable. If you lot think he’s in there for tactical reasons then you’re delusional as he’s only in the there to pick the crap out and be a mole. Why else would we have an interim who is staying in a consultant role? Forget about his tactics and focus on the fact that he’ll be getting rid of the crap you all hate and us proper fans in the stretty all feel the same.

stop being part of the problem and support the current manager and get behind Ten Haag
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Yuh, I mean he made a really dumb sub at half time on Saturday but it’s such a minor issue in the midst of all the wank that runs out onto that pitch. The idea of focusing negative energy on someone who’s an interim manager for this set of grotesque players would be misplaced. By game five of his reign here it was clear the players were too useless and unfit to even try and follow his instructions. feck them all, except Ronaldo, de Gea and Fred.
 
Morpheus 7 said:
He needs called out, worst interim appointment I can remember. Players have been a joke but he's not improved one player or the team. All these fan channels defending him too, a breathe of fresh air. Is he really? Calling out players then playing them a few games later, any person could point out the glaring deficiencies. Managers get the best out of what you have. Tactically, mentality, shape or even individually. He might be great behind the scenes building and recruiting, starting to get annoyed how he's immune to criticism. Especially from our fan base.
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Vaguely agree but he really has been a breath of fresh air. Like his record is poor but his job wasn't -really- to come in and 'manage' exactly, as far as I see it. He was brought in basically as a hatchet man by Murtough and that's how you have to judge him. The Glazers are businessmen and most American businesses do the EXACT same thing: when a company is underperforming, a consultant is brought in to analyse a structure from the top to bottom, make unpopular changes (i.e. sack anyone judged to be underperforming) and then leave. And that's how he will be judged and remembered, not for our awful performances, or playing arguably worse under him than Solskjaer, but by who he managed to kick out the club and who he kept.

Then, the hatchet man leaves, with all the bad influences/demotivators/poor performers gone, the new guy comes in, and he's nice-nice, gets to play friendly with everyone because in theory all the shite is gone and can build a new more solid organisation. It's a way of absolving Ten Hag of any of the bad feeling that would come with sacking all the useless shit that failed so badly while spending billions of pounds - the scouts, the management, the coaches, and you can see even in the way Ralf's been talking about Darren Fletcher and whoever regarding their roles. That way, when Ten Hag comes in, he's not undermined instantly.

If you judge Ralf as a manager he's been kind of shit, but it's not really what we needed anyway. Ole got us second but if we are really being honest with ourselves, we were nowhere near the required level, and the number of passengers absolutely stealing a living at our club (both players and staff) meant that a hatchet man was a necessity.
 
Silverman said:
It's simple. A lot of this squad are overpaid, entitled individuals.
Ralf came in and tried to implement his style. They wouldn't give it a chance so he had to revert to what suited them.
He rightfully called them out and refreshingly spoke openly about the need for new players.
They have now thrown another manager under the bus but this one isn't bothered cos he was only staying until the end of the season anyway.
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I think its a honest discussion to have if attempting to implement a brand new style of play with 5 month of season left was the right course of action.
 
Which manager could we have brought in to bring us fourth place? One could say Conte, but Spurs didn't make it to fourth place.
 
There's a lot to say that what we're witnessing now will be better for us in the long run than if we went on to snag 4th anyway. I think a light needed to be shone on the deep-rooted issues in this squad.

I'm not saying Rangnick is a super-genius who is intentionally masterminding it so that the a magnifying glass is put on our issues, just that it might be for the best.
 
We can't blame Rangnick for this. We've been heading towards this point for years, with players who have thrown several managers to the lions, owners who don't care and a board that is clueless. One man can't put it all to rights. The poor guy was handed an impossible temporary job.
 
Lyng said:
Big Sam???? No wonder you love Maguire.
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Yep I love Maguire because I think he's better than your boy Lindelof.

And yes Big Sam would have motivated this squad far better than what Ralf has.

Hardly controversial.
 
What I can’t understand with him is trying the same team over and over, week after week. I just don’t get the logic of not giving some of the young lads a go. It’s been shambolic and yet we have lads who haven’t had a kick sat on the bench who may be able to offer more, yet we’ve not given it a go.

Hannibal, Garnacho, Fernandez, would have been great to see them get some game time, but instead we play Matic/Mata/Telles etc.

Personally I’m not blaming Ralf for the league positon and how we’ve performed, but I can’t fathom the approach to the youth side of the squad.
 
Leftback99 said:
Yep I love Maguire because I think he's better than your boy Lindelof.

And yes Big Sam would have motivated this squad far better than what Ralf has.

Hardly controversial.
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My boy? Who I have repeatedly said isn't good enough?
Big Sam would have them play trash football. We should not aim to be prime Stoke.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
We can't blame Rangnick for this. We've been heading towards this point for years, with players who have thrown several managers to the lions, owners who don't care and a board that is clueless. One man can't put it all to rights. The poor guy was handed an impossible temporary job.
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He's under performed, embarrassing results and performances. You can't blame him for everything that led to here, the players are accountable, Glazer's have so much to answer for ect. Where's his accountability though, he's been an absolute disaster.
 
Lyng said:
Big Sam would have them play trash football. We should not aim to be prime Stoke.
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It would still be a better level of trash than the trash we have played. Not exactly a high bar.
 
Morpheus 7 said:
He's under performed, embarrassing results and performances. You can't blame him for everything that led to here, the players are accountable, Glazer's have so much to answer for ect. Where's his accountability though, he's been an absolute disaster.
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Agreed, he has, but it was a thankless task to be given the job temporarily, when these same players have downed tools for permanent managers previously. They haven't even tried for him.
 
I've not turned on Ragnick. If anything his tenure has shown irrefutable proof the fact that this squad of players just don't give a shit for the club. For most of them, personal pride doesn't even seem to come into it.
No, I don't blame Ragnick. I blame the people above him who have presided over the club for the past decade and allowed all of this to happen.
 
One of the most shittiest coach to have ever have graced in this planet.His handling of team selections and most importantly neglecting youth players should be registered as a criminal offence.
 
Him taking Matic off at HT before Mctominay shows he's got no idea what he's doing.

He's got one way of playing and we don't have the fitness or athleticism to play it.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
Agreed, he has, but it was a thankless task to be given the job temporarily, when these same players have downed tools for permanent managers previously. They haven't even tried for him.
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They have been a disgrace and I'm never going to defend or forgive them for this season. I just think it's mad that we haven't seen anything from an entire squad, not one player. Elanga was given a chance, he's been okay. That's it, not any combination play from training ground. Setpiece routines, playing out from the back, deep line, pressing, overlapping, possession ect... nothing. Down tools is one thing but not being able to get through to one player is mad.
 
In Rainbows said:
I'm not so sure. How would he motivate them? Through his reputation of being a relegation avoiding manager?
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As I say it's a low bar to beat. I picked out Big Sam but choose anyone that might not have completely alienated this squad like Ralf has.

Once the idea to turn us into a pressing team was dropped (after 1 game) then any average manager could have implement a basic system to use.
 
The players are not good enough.

They've fecked over previous managers and they've tried fecking over Ralph but he's exposed them. There's no place to hide anymore.
 
I honestly hoped when he came in we'd at least begin to look like a team that has been properly coached and for 30 mins against Palace it was great, after that we have been a disgrace.

Yes,he's had things go against him, Greenwood, Covid not being able to get his preferred coaches in to name a few but bloody hell to me it looked like he'd given up in January.

I like the guy,it's refreshing to hear his honesty but it's been a disaster of a managerial appointment, but I'm confident some big changes have/will be made and we'll be able to look back at ralf's interim as a real turning point.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
Agreed, he has, but it was a thankless task to be given the job temporarily, when these same players have downed tools for permanent managers previously. They haven't even tried for him.
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He was six points behind fourth at the start, all he needed to do was what Ole did initially as interim, get the players confidence back, get them drilled properly and playing to a structure with cohesive tactics and just grind out wins to get top 4, it was totally doable in that easy fixture list we had, yet he consistently got it wrong, game after game. Most of the games were were dominated by the likes of wolves, on the backfoot constantly, that's not just the players "downing tools" that's bad tactics and set up. It's only gotten worse with this 4-0 loss to Brighton. We're back to where we started, if not worse now. He's failed, it was doable, it was never a thankless task, and you can re-write history to defend him all you want, but the facts are the facts.
 
I think not many of us needed convincing that our squad is full of divas and overrated players. Maybe the extent of the rot is surprising to me.

However, Ralf’s interim stint is quite disastrous and given that he already identified that the current bunch of players is essentially worthless I cannot comprehend why doesn’t he want to give more youngsters a go. Matic and Mata in the starting 11. Come on...
 
I was indifferent on him in the beginning, but he just proved how spoiled these pos are. I will always be on his side.
 
Biggins said:
I think not many of us needed convincing that our squad is full of divas and overrated players. Maybe the extent of the rot is surprising to me.

However, Ralf’s interim stint is quite disastrous and given that he already identified that the current bunch of players is essentially worthless I cannot comprehend why doesn’t he want to give more youngsters a go. Matic and Mata in the starting 11. Come on...
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Now that top 4 is not possible, he might give them a chance.
 
Amir said:
Since letting go of him was such a difficult and emotional thing for so many people around the club, fans included, I'm happy it was done when it was done. Partly because of the fear that an improvement in the team would have been considered an excuse to keep him. Partly for the buffer between that era to Ten Hag arriving.
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This is why I actually wanted Ole gone. I didn't think he did a bad job while he was here. I understood the signings he made and why he made them, despite how some haven't worked out as planned. I also believe it was quite clear that our deficiencies in midfield were the cause of our inability to control/ dominate games rather than his tactical ability. I feel he proved himself in some of the big games he managed to win, but I also felt that his inability to manage a club of United's stature were exposed in the starts we had last season and this season, which looked more like a lack of preparation than simply poor player performance. We all knew there was a massive chance that he was not the guy to lead us to where we wanted to be; yet a club of our size waited so long to make a decision because we didn't want to look like Chelsea. I don't think our issue under Woodward was in simply hiring managers but rather the need for our club to look noble. It's the reason we kept Moyes and LVG for as long as we did. It's the reason we have dealt with this Pogba situation for as long as we have. It's the reason we consistently can't seem to evaluate our youth players properly, leading to the likes of Martial, Jones, Lingard and Mctominay being at the club this long. As a club, the sentimentality has been our detriment, both from fans and the club.

The Smalling-Jones partnership was still a dream till 2018. Henderson surpassing DDG was heralded because he was English. Martial despite many wasted years was still seen as a talent because of sentiment. Rashford was overrated because of sentiment, with us moving between him being a striker or left winger starting in our team despite him not being as good as our competitors forwards. Our fans still have tears over the likes of Herrera, VDB, Kagawa and Mhiki who have all proven to be poor elsewhere. We have fans who are so sentimental about the role of the manager thag they can't seem to comprehend how terrible Rangnick has been for the club. People still go one about Juanfield despite it only lasting for three games in a two year run for LVG. Yet our rivals can sack managers like Conte for causing dressing room issues despite winning the league, sell the likes of Toure, let go of young players like Iheanacho, whilst still always looking lt bring in new ideas and the best talent they can find.
 
It’s bizarre to already be judging Ralf as a success or failure. To my mind, that’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what I hope his role is. Sure a part of it might have been to right the ship enough to keep us in a top 4 spot, but I see that as a bonus rather than what his job should be. Which is playing a role to revamp this club and it’s operational structure, and begin the process of getting all the overpaid, unprofessional players out the door. Point being, he’s not been a good manager, but being a good manager in the traditional sense wasn’t his job.
 
I think Ralph has basically admitted that he failed. Didn't he say that I asks the players to do things and they simply don't do it, and he doesn't know what to do with them ?
 
didz said:
More of this crap about him being a consultant..

It was a part of the contract negotiation to match the 3 years employment he had at Lokomotiv: that's it. He's managing another football team once his interim horrorshow here has ended. Unless the second floor at Carrington is in Vienna, saying he's moving "upstairs" is a massive stretch.

They didn't listen to him in January about signings, he had no input in the Ten Hag hire and he will - in case you missed it - be managing another football team once he's done as interim.

The consultancy role is nothing but an accounting trick - sure, maybe he'll pick up the phone once a month, but he 100% was not hired as consultant first, manager second. He was hired as interim manager, with an assurance of getting paid for 3 years instead of 6 months.

He and Rudi Garcia were interviewed for the same position and the truth of it is, the Frenchman would at least have been a coach to the team. At least he wouldn't be getting a free pass because of an imaginary future job anyway.

I'm not saying Rangnick has had it easy, but his deflections can't possibly be going well with a dressing room that has already been fractured by off-field issues. He gave up on a style he's spent 3 decades banging the drum for, brought in staff who've got no business being in the league let alone club, and he's thrown his players under the bus at the first opportunity and every one thereafter.

Yes the players have been crap. How that can possibly used to defend the guy whose job it is to make them look good is beyond me.
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I think that is a good post.
 
Silverman said:
It's simple. A lot of this squad are overpaid, entitled individuals.
Ralf came in and tried to implement his style. They wouldn't give it a chance so he had to revert to what suited them.
He rightfully called them out and refreshingly spoke openly about the need for new players.
They have now thrown another manager under the bus but this one isn't bothered cos he was only staying until the end of the season anyway.
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They don't seem to realize how bad they look here, and how the new manager can watch footage of those games.
 
The Mitcher said:
He was six points behind fourth at the start, all he needed to do was what Ole did initially as interim, get the players confidence back, get them drilled properly and playing to a structure with cohesive tactics and just grind out wins to get top 4, it was totally doable in that easy fixture list we had, yet he consistently got it wrong, game after game. Most of the games were were dominated by the likes of wolves, on the backfoot constantly, that's not just the players "downing tools" that's bad tactics and set up. It's only gotten worse with this 4-0 loss to Brighton. We're back to where we started, if not worse now. He's failed, it was doable, it was never a thankless task, and you can re-write history to defend him all you want, but the facts are the facts.
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Two weeks ago he was three points out of fourth. Ohh the failure
 
Sorry, but looking at this from the outside you get the impression Ralph is just out of his depth.

Ole definitely needed replacing, but Ralph was bought in with two objectives steady the ship and secure top 4.

He failed miserably at both. He also failed to convince Carrick or McKenna to stay so there was no continuity. He bought in coaches way below the level needed. He failed to get the players to buy into his system. He gave up on that system way too early with no real fall back up plan. He's made a series of bizarre selection choices just one example playing Dalot at left back against Liverpool with a natural left back sitting on the bench.

He probably did not expect the key components of the coaching staff to leave with Ole, no one could have predicted the Greenwood issue and yes the players have let him down badly, though I'm sure the way he talks about them in public every chance he gets hasn't helped that at all.

But for a squad that finished 2nd last season and then added, one of the world's best centre backs, one of the brightest prospects in world football and arguably the best player of all time, to finish the season in this fashion where your high point is a half decent display against Brentford is just disgraceful and he is one hundred percent responsible.
 
The Boy said:
He also failed to convince Carrick or McKenna to stay so there was no continuity. He bought in coaches way below the level needed.
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That wasn't on him at all. That's a club failure.


The Boy said:
But for a squad that finished 2nd last season...
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This is the reason why coming 2nd was a bad thing ultimately. It gets used lazily in tired arguments like this. I watched every second of every united game last year, and let me tell you - we were not good. Not good at all. Granted we hadn't collapsed at that point, but the squad was complacent, unbalanced and beginning to rot from the inside.
 
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