Turning on Rangnick

[Pogue Mahone]

Both these things can be true at the same time:

1. He did a shit job as manager.
2. He was largely right about the squad not being good enough.

3. He was capable of making transfer priorities for us to start working on long before the summer transfer window.

Surely 3 was one of the main reasons we fecking hired him? That was his job title. Interim manager. Someone who will set things up for a permanent manager. Like getting the ball rolling on upgrading our squad, so his successor wouldn’t be starting at square one. So insane that we seemed to completely forget why we hired him after we lost a load of games of football.

 

[BigDycheEnergy]

I'm turning on Rangnick
I think I'm turning on Rangnick
I really think so

 

[LazyGoal]

Yes good thing the club listened to him all the way back in January about signing a striker, getting an affordable/attainable midfielder and preparing for life without Ronaldo.

Seven months later, these problems are still there and haven’t been resolved.

Don’t thibk he was a great coach but his squad assessments were spot on.

The only thing he could do of value was to win games. Get us top4 and a bit further in CL.

 

[RedPed]

If Rangnick had been given the job he was actually brought in to do long term our summer would have been a lot better. We certainly wouldn’t be looking to sign former Stoke City players that’s for sure.

He was brought in to manage the team for the rest of the season and get us playing again. That was the job he was given to do. Instead he oversaw the worst period in our PL history.

 

[Hammondo]

Yes. Playing 4-2-2-2 with these players was very smart. He did’nt do his job, get real.

He didn't play that much though, he played other formations more.

 

[mu4c_20le]

And then help rebuild. Only we sacked him off before he could do that and completely ignored his assessment. If he’d had his way Vlahovic would’ve arrived in January. But our brilliant scouts didn’t think he would improve the squad.

Source? Everywhere I've read it was a very minor consultant role to entice him to come. He was never going to turn us into a Red Bull club. Murtough wanted him to steady the ship while implementing a foundation of gegenpressing.

 

[LazyGoal]

He wasn't here to build, he was here to assess.

Did’nt need to be manager to do that. Do you really belive that. My god.

 

[Ralph1386]

The only thing he could do of value was to win games. Get us top4 and a bit further in CL.

That wasn’t why he was hired over other candidates. It was his added value long term outside of coaching.

 

[LazyGoal]

He didn't play that much though, he played other formations more.

Please think back to december. He should have been gone by new year. Playing Ronaldo up top with high press. No, we dont want anymore advice from you.. thank you and now bugger off.

 

[Hammondo]

Did’nt need to be manager to do that. Do you really belive that. My god.

It was literally what he said his job was.

 

[Hammondo]

Please think back to december. He should have been gone by new year. Playing Ronaldo up top with high press. No, we dont want anymore advice from you.. thank you and now bugger off.

A high press is good, we had no one better up front, still don't.

 

[Revaulx]

3. He was capable of making transfer priorities for us to start working on long before the summer transfer window.

Surely 3 was one of the main reasons we fecking hired him? That was his job title. Interim manager. Someone who will set things up for a permanent manager. Like getting the ball rolling on upgrading our squad, so his successor wouldn’t be starting at square one. So insane that we seemed to completely forget why we hired him after we lost a load of games of football.

Well yes, but you won't be popular on here for saying that.

Loads of people reckoned that an interim manager shouldn't be allowed to have a say in transfers as the permanent chap might not like his choices.

Now loads of people (yes I'm aware it might not be the same ones) are moaning that the permanent chap has too much say in transfers.

 

[Abraxas]

Why are people so concerned about Ralf Rangnick? Who cares? ETH is a better manager than Ralf will ever be. We've made a good appointment, on paper. That's what we're going with, so why harp back to what this failure of an interim did or said? It's just not that important. Whether he is a part time consultant is not that important.

And yes it matters that he was a fecking disaster as a manager, of course it does. What employee comes into a business, makes a complete mess of every aspect of his role and then gets handed credibility? You have to earn it, it's always like that.

 

[Bwuk]

He wasn’t a great coach, but everything he said about the club hee was spot on with.

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

Give it a few weeks into this season - Caf will be saying it was a miracle he finished top 6 with these lot.

 

[Newtonius]

You can already see people regurgitating the clubs PR who cares if he sucked as a coach he isn't actually a coach it was meant as a stop gap this is precisely why he had to go;

"It's not that difficult to analyse the team needs a rebuild, not because some players have to go but quite a few have no contracts anymore, their contracts are expiring, then for me it's clear there will be six, seven, eight, maybe 10 new players." - Ralf Rangnick

They can't handle people that aren't yes men, notice he is talking about the summer. This was also reportedly what Pochettino was saying in his interview too he wanted to rip up the squad and rebuild hence why ETH became first choice and "these players were 2nd couple of seasons ago".

Man its such a shame just having that football knowledge backstage would have been immense, ultimately Murtough is beyond fecking clueless, there is no scouting structure in place and ETH's targets are nonexistent.

 

[fallengt]

RRs known for building 2 clubs from the ground and unearthed lot of hidden gems but let judge him based off results with a dysfunctional squad.
Nothing against ETH, he clearly has a vision in mind but he's going to waste so much times until he gets there. Some of these players don't deserve clean plate for the fecking 6th time. Glazers' yes-men don't have the balls to tell ETH and when someone does, they boot him

 

[Dominos]

3. He was capable of making transfer priorities for us to start working on long before the summer transfer window.

Surely 3 was one of the main reasons we fecking hired him? That was his job title. Interim manager. Someone who will set things up for a permanent manager. Like getting the ball rolling on upgrading our squad, so his successor wouldn’t be starting at square one. So insane that we seemed to completely forget why we hired him after we lost a load of games of football.

Given how things played out it's evident he was hired to rescue top 4 primarily (and obviously did a miserable job at that). The other candidates for interim role Valverde, Favre, Fonseca, Rudi Garcia wouldn't have had any say in transfers realistically nor would we expect them to?

The fact Ralf had a DOF background and knew the transfer market inside out just seemed to be an afterthought to the club which was a mistake. It was probably another dumb decision not to take advantage of those expertise.

I do think he'd have clashed with ETH though as Ralf probably would have wanted to prioritise certain positions which ETH hasn't prioritised (DM, RB for example), and had different targets/profiles of players from ETH who wanted to scrap all club targets and primarily target his ex-players and the odd Eredivisie player.

 

[stevoc]

3. He was capable of making transfer priorities for us to start working on long before the summer transfer window.

Surely 3 was one of the main reasons we fecking hired him? That was his job title. Interim manager. Someone who will set things up for a permanent manager. Like getting the ball rolling on upgrading our squad, so his successor wouldn’t be starting at square one. So insane that we seemed to completely forget why we hired him after we lost a load of games of football.

It's entirely possible that early on in the negotiations with Ten Hag he made it clear has wasn't interested in the players Ralf was suggesting and/or working with Rangnick at all.

And this has been repeated on here many times in 2022 but how common is it to hire an Interim manager to start building a squad for the next manager that hasn't even been hired yet?

 

[stevoc]

He wasn't here to build, he was here to assess.

Thee's still no concrete evidence he was hired to do either of those things.

 

[dinostar77]

He wasn’t a great coach, but everything he said about the club hee was spot on with.

Yep, especially that Utd required open heart surgery this summer and a dozen new players. Which to me said the malaise at the club needs to be removed, all of it.

Also 2 of the 3 defenders he said werent of the standard required, started yesterday: maguire and shaw.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

3. He was capable of making transfer priorities for us to start working on long before the summer transfer window.

Surely 3 was one of the main reasons we fecking hired him? That was his job title. Interim manager. Someone who will set things up for a permanent manager. Like getting the ball rolling on upgrading our squad, so his successor wouldn’t be starting at square one. So insane that we seemed to completely forget why we hired him after we lost a load of games of football.

It's truly crazy stuff, hiring Rangnick instead of the typical interim manager who is focused on results or a specific target, because of his style of play and his ability to set up the club for the next few years... then sacking him because of the job he's not good at and not allowing him to do the job that he's good at.

 

[LazyGoal]

That wasn’t why he was hired over other candidates. It was his added value long term outside of coaching.

And that value was the game we saw today? If I tell you a far

He wasn’t a great coach, but everything he said about the club hee was spot on with.

Who cares about what people say, its what they are able to do that matters.

 

[Ralph1386]

And that value was the game we saw today? If I tell you a far

Huh?

 

[JJ12]

His analysis on the squad being rubbish was spot on and his recommendations for players probably would've been of great benefit.

Unfortunately we hired him as a manager, something he hadn't done in year and never at an elite level. The club misses so many times it is incredible. The next stage of his appointment was where he was going to be useful, but of course he shone a light on the idiots above and that was just unacceptable.

 

[Azhar88]

RR had a chance to take different path just like ETH, instead he took a safe option to chace top 4 bullshit, went against his own ways, completely sold out and at end deservedly got fecked by cnuts we have in the squad.

Think about it, they couldnt press more than 15 min, they couldnt play his initial formation, they didnt like trainings later in the day or some bullshit, they didnt like that couldnt hide in the shadows because RR didnt let them and what he did, he abandoned his ways to adjust and adapt to that bunch of fecks, he got what he deserved. Doesnt mean that he wasnt wrong regarding them, maybe.

Well, first of all and to be fair - I still maintain that like the previous managers and even though he was interim, a top-4 finish was the minimum requirement, not in his case to continue in the job, but to get the 2-year consultancy gig afterwards (which was basically a bonus to attract him in the first place). I bet even that would have paid more than coaching Austria, which he probably could have also done at the same time anyway. So why wouldn't he play safe to try to achieve that?

Furthermore, he tried to stamp down on bad body language and as you say up the fitness levels & he didn't hold back when outlining what needed changing, was that playing 'safe'? I don't think so. That the players then turned against him because of his methods and his comments, well that's on the players not RR.

 

[Irwin99]

A lot of the caf can never seem to separate two distinct issues i've noticed- people just have to be all in with the most extreme dislike or love for certain individuals and it never seems to occur that a manager can be right about some things and wrong about others

Ralf was an extremely poor interim manager, that's indisputable, but he was 100% right about the structure of the club and the need for a complete restructure of the team. Jose, LVG and even Moyes expressed disapproval with the setup here but I don't think anyone did it as clearly and with such calm, dispassionate precision as Ralf did. I never saw any aggression in what he said (unlike Jose, LVG), just reason and observation.

How anyone can say he wasn't on to something with his observations is beyond me.

 

[el3mel]

His analysis on the squad being rubbish was spot on and his recommendations for players probably would've been of great benefit.

Unfortunately we hired him as a manager, something he hadn't done in year and never at an elite level. The club misses so many times it is incredible. The next stage of his appointment was where he was going to be useful, but of course he shone a light on the idiots above and that was just unacceptable.

We didn't need Ralf to tell us the squad is rubbish though. That's like saying water is wet.

 

[Cassidy]

We didn't need Ralf to tell us the squad is rubbish though. That's like saying water is wet.

To us fans maybe, you think those in the club really grasp that?

 

[1988]

Why are we talking about Ralf again?

 

[el3mel]

To us fans maybe, you think those in the club really grasp that?

They know, and they don't care.

 

[Greck]

It's entirely possible that early on in the negotiations with Ten Hag he made it clear has wasn't interested in the players Ralf was suggesting and/or working with Rangnick at all.

And this has been repeated on here many times in 2022 but how common is it to hire an Interim manager to start building a squad for the next manager that hasn't even been hired yet?

This would still prove to be incompetence on the club's part. A situation where we let Ten Hag decide Rangnick's fate would have defeated the entire point of having a structure in place. It's no excuse. If you ask any manager if they want more bosses they will say no. DoF decides on the non-manager appointments and non-coaching structure assisting him. That's why he's there in the first place.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

To us fans maybe, you think those in the club really grasp that?

The things Rangnick actually said were much milder and obvious than what people here sometimes paint them as.

Like the famous "club needs 10 players" quote. He said, "The team needs a rebuild, not because some players have to go but quite a few have no contracts anymore, their contracts are expiring, then for me it's clear there will be six, seven, eight, maybe 10 new players." That is a trivial point: when you lose players, you replace them one way or another. Then he said, "And before you sign those players you need to be aware how do you want to play? " Another fairly simple point, does anyone actually think nobody at United has ever given the slightest thought to how they want to play?

United have hired Ten Hag, a manager with a clear style. They have signed some players that the manager wanted and that seemingly fit his style. They are still in pursuit of additional players and have been pursuing a 'system' player like De Jong for a million years. It's not like United are doing the exact opposite of what Rangnick suggested.

 

[JJ12]

We didn't need Ralf to tell us the squad is rubbish though. That's like saying water is wet.

Very naive if you think that’s the extent of the report he gave

 

[Cassidy]

The things Rangnick actually said were much milder and obvious than what people here sometimes paint them as.

Like the famous "club needs 10 players" quote. He said, "The team needs a rebuild, not because some players have to go but quite a few have no contracts anymore, their contracts are expiring, then for me it's clear there will be six, seven, eight, maybe 10 new players." That is a trivial point: when you lose players, you replace them one way or another. Then he said, "And before you sign those players you need to be aware how do you want to play? " Another fairly simple point, does anyone actually think nobody at United has ever given the slightest thought to how they want to play?

United have hired Ten Hag, a manager with a clear style. They have signed some players that the manager wanted and that seemingly fit his style. They are still in pursuit of additional players and have been pursuing a 'system' player like De Jong for a million years. It's not like United are doing the exact opposite of what Rangnick suggested.

We have not replaced what we've lost

 

[Foxbatt]

And then help rebuild. Only we sacked him off before he could do that and completely ignored his assessment. If he’d had his way Vlahovic would’ve arrived in January. But our brilliant scouts didn’t think he would improve the squad.

I don't care about Vlahovic, even Alaric would have been better than McFred. RR was spot on about the players. This bunch would throw ETH under the bus too. At least with RR we got 60 mins of decent football.

 

[jameyzane]

Something tells me that any time United go into the market to look for a manager, we ask first if they are fine using the players we already have with just a little bit of improvements and they naively say yes and then when it gets tough and they call out the board, they get the boot not long after. ETH is going through it right now. He took the job under the impression these players can do better than this and he like Ragnick is starting to see the mistake. He has already started calling out the board in his last post-match interview. Wait a couple of months and people here will say ETH is a fraud, came from a nothing league, buys only ex Eredivisie players or players he only worked with, belongs to a lower club in a lower league and only Mourinho or top managers of the ilk belong to united. Just wait.

 

[stevoc]

This would still prove to be incompetence on the club's part. A situation where we let Ten Hag decide Rangnick's fate would have defeated the entire point of having a structure in place. It's no excuse. If you ask any manager if they want more bosses they will say no. DoF decides on the non-manager appointments and non-coaching structure assisting him. That's why he's there in the first place.

So what if we told Ten Hag he has to work under Ralf and he just said no thanks, just lose out on one of Europes up and coming coaches for the sake of keeping Rangnick on?

Also this is all forgetting that Rangnick was never hired to be the DOF. We already have one.

 

[Greck]

So what if we told Ten Hag he has to work under Ralf and he just said no thanks, just lose out on one of Europes up and coming coaches for the sake of keeping Rangnick on?

Also this is all forgetting that Rangnick was never hired to be the DOF. We already have one.

Like what? as opposed to going to another club where he doesn't have to work under several people?

There's a reason we are even jumbling so many farfetched whatifs to justify it. He wasn't even present at an interview Fletcher of all people attended. From the very beginning he was never given an impression Ralf was an integral part of the process. This one is on the club.

 

[stevoc]

Like what? as opposed to going to another club where he doesn't have to work under several people?

There's a reason we are even jumbling so many farfetched whatifs to justify it. He wasn't even present at an interview Fletcher of all people attended. From the very beginning he was never given an impression Ralf was an integral part of the process. This one is on the club.

I mean it's fairly obvious from what Ten Hag said in his first press conference, what all the major United journalists have said on the matter and not least the fact that Rangnick was sacked and his consultancy cancelled that Ten Hag clearly didn't want to work with him.

So is it really a far fetched what if?