Turning on Rangnick

[SAFMUTD]

Worrying though is that they could do the same to ten hag. Bunch of prima donnas.

That will depend on the board, if they give Ten Hag enough power by his reputation he'll clear out any player that doesn't work their socks off.

I think it's important he brings at least 4-5 new players who can be his core along with a few he identify he can trust.

I think the fan base has finally turn against this lot of players so player power will be diminished. We're tired of Rashford and Lingard crying and winning about how they're not appreciated enough and they're from the academy etc.

Feck them.

 

[LazyGoal]

Can you imagine the furor if that happened? Now if he was only an interim manager, with no brief to be a part of the rebuild/reset, I might agree with you because he has failed miserably. I doubt he had any idea of how poorly the club was being run and the size of the task appointed to him. I think he worked it out pretty quickly and fixed his sights on getting a new man in and paving the way for a new era.

When he set the players up for failure, no wonder they fail him.

As I wrote back in early january, if he dont gain their trust within the first weeks its all downhill. And it sure has been. So, he has not done his job for the long term or the short term. The players are clearly much better than this.

 

[Champ]

The defending of him has turned to madness

I'm not defending him, he's been poor as a manager.
But to claim hiring someone who wasn't a manager/coach at the time, and to give them a consultant role post term wasn't a stop gap to help the new manager and change the direction is chatting rubbish really.

 

[LazyGoal]

I'm not defending him, he's been poor as a manager.
But to claim hiring someone who wasn't a manager/coach at the time, and to give them a consultant role post term wasn't a stop gap to help the new manager and change the direction is chatting rubbish really.

Why have a manager at all, if that sentiment has any merit.

 

[Champ]

Why have a manager at all, if that sentiment has any merit.

We haven't had a manager for the past few months, we've had an interim whose main focus has been to get this clubs structure and footballing brain rewired.

 

[Tyrion]

Well, clearly he was better than many gave him credit for.

Not better than what many around here have him credit for. He had a simple plan but couldn't do anything vaguely sophisticated with them.

Nice job of deflecting all the blame back onto Ole

He was the manager for 3 years and would have had a say in many of these signings.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Not better than what many around here have him credit for. He had a simple plan but couldn't do anything vaguely sophisticated with them.



He was the manager for 3 years and would have had a say in many of these signings.

Not that much wrong with the signings. His issue was instilling the desired level of control through his tactics. The first two years of Ole were still the most enjoyable times post Fergie though.

 

[didz]

More of this crap about him being a consultant..

It was a part of the contract negotiation to match the 3 years employment he had at Lokomotiv: that's it. He's managing another football team once his interim horrorshow here has ended. Unless the second floor at Carrington is in Vienna, saying he's moving "upstairs" is a massive stretch.

They didn't listen to him in January about signings, he had no input in the Ten Hag hire and he will - in case you missed it - be managing another football team once he's done as interim.

The consultancy role is nothing but an accounting trick - sure, maybe he'll pick up the phone once a month, but he 100% was not hired as consultant first, manager second. He was hired as interim manager, with an assurance of getting paid for 3 years instead of 6 months.

He and Rudi Garcia were interviewed for the same position and the truth of it is, the Frenchman would at least have been a coach to the team. At least he wouldn't be getting a free pass because of an imaginary future job anyway.

I'm not saying Rangnick has had it easy, but his deflections can't possibly be going well with a dressing room that has already been fractured by off-field issues. He gave up on a style he's spent 3 decades banging the drum for, brought in staff who've got no business being in the league let alone club, and he's thrown his players under the bus at the first opportunity and every one thereafter.

Yes the players have been crap. How that can possibly used to defend the guy whose job it is to make them look good is beyond me.

 

[izzydiggler]

I'm really not arsed about the pitch...if Rangnick has worked out the 'bad eggs' in the dressing room and produced a report that is acted upon then he's done the job he needed to.

I'm wary he'll just be ignored though and the club will just protect assets though and if that's the case, nothing will change.

 

[Leftback99]

More of this crap about him being a consultant..

It was a part of the contract negotiation to match the 3 years employment he had at Lokomotiv: that's it. He's managing another football team once his interim horrorshow here has ended. Unless the second floor at Carrington is in Vienna, saying he's moving "upstairs" is a massive stretch.

They didn't listen to him in January about signings, he had no input in the Ten Hag hire and he will - in case you missed it - be managing another football team once he's done as interim.

The consultancy role is nothing but an accounting trick - sure, maybe he'll pick up the phone once a month, but he 100% was not hired as consultant first, manager second. He was hired as interim manager, with an assurance of getting paid for 3 years instead of 6 months.

He and Rudi Garcia were interviewed for the same position and the truth of it is, the Frenchman would at least have been a coach to the team. At least he wouldn't be getting a free pass because of an imaginary future job anyway.

I'm not saying Rangnick has had it easy, but his deflections can't possibly be going well with a dressing room that has already been fractured by off-field issues. He gave up on a style he's spent 3 decades banging the drum for, brought in staff who've got no business being in the league let alone club, and he's thrown his players under the bus at the first opportunity and every one thereafter.

Yes the players have been crap. How that can possibly used to defend the guy whose job it is to make them look good is beyond me.

Spot on.

 

[Tyrion]

I'm really not arsed about the pitch...if Rangnick has worked out the 'bad eggs' in the dressing room and produced a report that is acted upon then he's done the job he needed to.

I'm wary he'll just be ignored though and the club will just protect assets though and if that's the case, nothing will change.

These players arent assets though. And I don't mean to say that they're footballers, not assets. I mean they're too shite to be assets. They're liabilities in the footballing and financial sense.

 

[Okey]

We haven't had a manager for the past few months, we've had an interim whose main focus has been to get this clubs structure and footballing brain rewired.

This! That's exactly how I see it. There's no Ralf era as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather blame the hierarchy who decided on this patchwork hiatus rather than start over properly after sacking Ole. It was a write off once Ole's boys didn't dig Mr Interim and he wasn't given even a single new player to work with.

 

[glazed]

This! That's exactly how I see it. There's no Ralf era as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather blame the hierarchy who decided on this patchwork hiatus rather than start over properly after sacking Ole. It was a write off once Ole's boys didn't dig Mr Interim and he wasn't given even a single new player to work with.

Exactly. If anyone thought Ralf was ever going to bring on the field success then they didn't understand the scope and depth of the problem. This is a deeply dysfunctional club and we are way beyond papering over the cracks with a new manager and the same old structures and mistakes.

Rushing into appointing a permanent manager would have been exactly that - a mistake.

 

[m1tch]

Don't think we'd have been any worse off with Frank de Boer.

The fans would have gone apoplectic if we'd have appointed someone like Steve Bruce as the interim, yet you've gotta be a fully paid up member of the xG cult to think he'd have done worse than Ralf.

 

[LazyGoal]

We haven't had a manager for the past few months, we've had an interim whose main focus has been to get this clubs structure and footballing brain rewired.

Wow! Do you really belive that nonsense? Of course he has been the manager. And he should have been out the door early january.

This is what I wrote 9th of january, and its still true and the correct way to look at it:
Rangnick will not be above the next manager, and all of you need to understand just that. The consequens of that is that its not possible for him to «make the team ready» for a new manager when it commes to formation and system of play. Unless there is allready an agreement with a new manager and they have plan toghether. This looks not to be the case at the moment.

So what have Rangnick to play for:
• he has been in charge of 5 PL games. He took over at 14 games. He has been in charge for about 30% of our season so far.
• he has 19 PL left games = 57 points.
• we have now 31 points and can reach 88
• we need +70 to get CL. This means we can loose 18 points from the last 19 games.
• we still have CL, which we worked very hard for last year
• and we have the FA cup.

Now, how on earth can he be a interim manager worth his salt, and football consultant worth keeping, if he cant work with this challange — with a squad that has finished top four the last two years in a row and was in the EL final?

The narrative on here is that we should disregard all of that becouse the players are not good enuogh, when they clearly are.

 

[Pronewbie]

Never in the history of football has a manager been hired to solely check what needs to be done in 6 months time

Are you saying he wasn’t tasked to try and win football matches and attempt top 4 which was very much achievable when the hire was made?

Some are choosing to bury their heads in the sand. I don’t even blame Rangnick for his appointment. It’s on the club. Any manager of his calibre would jump at the opportunity. There were only a handful that were skeptical of his appointment but by end-Jan it was apparent things weren’t going to change.

We needed a competent man-manager that this spoilt lot could buy into for the rest of the season, with Rangnick coming in as a consultant. A system-based manager with some MLS coaches were quite clearly not the answer.

 

[Mickson]

This! That's exactly how I see it. There's no Ralf era as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather blame the hierarchy who decided on this patchwork hiatus rather than start over properly after sacking Ole. It was a write off once Ole's boys didn't dig Mr Interim and he wasn't given even a single new player to work with.

haha how many interim managers get to sign players?? The excuses here are ridiculous.

 

[wolvored]

RR was on a hiding to nothing. The club havent backed him at all in the January window and i think he was genuinely surprised at that. You have to put a lot of his failures to these woke entitled players not giving a feck. I think TH would have done diligance when he was up for the job andcwill have guarantees what he can do with these players, before he agreed to sign up.

 

[Jacob]

It is blatantly obvious that he is a theorist and not a manager. Lacks any kind of pondus or charisma to manage and lead a bunch of underachievers.

 

[Drifter]

Maybe should have stuck with Ole to the end of the season

 

[LazyGoal]

Maybe should have stuck with Ole to the end of the season

And maybe dealt with the players in a proper way. Sold anything but what was playing and performing and has contratcts for more than 18 months.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Maybe should have stuck with Ole to the end of the season

No. It's all hindsight.
It was the right decision at the time to sack Ole. He had it coming. It was also the right decision not to risk keeping Carrick (that doesn't mean that it couldn't have worked out better in hindsight). It was even right not to hire Conte, who is excellent, if the club had someone like Ten Hag in mind for the future.
And it was right to hire an experienced interim, since the desired manager(s) would only come in summer.

To me, it was the wrong choice of interim, but who knows, it could also have worked out better, for example if Rangnick could have found a better coaching staff. But we don't know what the market was like. It hasn't worked out well, but it's not so important.
A new chapter starts in summer, and that chapter starts on the basis of a number of very good decisions, even if one of them has not worked out.
Interim managers are always just a bridge for a gap. Time to look forward and to not obsess over the present.

 

[VP89]

No. It's all hindsight.
It was the right decision at the time to sack Ole. He had it coming. It was also the right decision not to risk keeping Carrick (that doesn't mean that it couldn't have worked out better in hindsight). It was even right not to hire Conte, who is excellent, if the club had someone like Ten Hag in mind for the future.
And it was right to hire an experienced interim, since the desired manager(s) would only come in summer.

To me, it was the wrong choice of interim, but who knows, it could also have worked out better, for example if Rangnick could have found a better coaching staff. But we don't know what the market was like. It hasn't worked out well, but it's not so important.
A new chapter starts in summer, and that chapter starts on the basis of a number of very good decisions, even if one of them has not worked out.
Interim managers are always just a bridge for a gap. Time to look forward and to not obsess over the present.

This is a very good summary of the situation. I am just waiting for Ten Hag now and no conference league. Id rather no European football than that.

 

[AndyMUFC]

People keep saying he gave up on his style, are you sure about that? Or is it just that these players have not been doing what he’s told them to do?

He’s got to take a proportion of the blame obviously but anyone was on a hiding to nothing with the way these players have performed this season.

 

[sugar_kane]

Here’s a thought - if the players are ignoring the manager’s instructions then maybe that’s also the manager’s fault for having no charisma or authority?

The Ralf apologists on this forum are something else. He has been fecking shit. Yes he’s making all the right observations but half the fans and pundits in this country have made those same observations. As an interim manager he has been a failure. Nothing to show for it in terms of results or style.

The phrase “on the beach” is rightfully applied to the players but Ralf has been there for months - he’s got a sweet ass consultancy gig lined up at the end of a six month work experience being Man United manager, during which he seemingly has no hard targets or pressure on him and is treated like a demi god just for observing that we’re a badly run club with a weak squad.

“But he’s observed first hand which players aren’t pulling their weight, dossier etc etc” - literally any staff member inside the dressing room could have observed who the bad apples are.

Rangnick is to Murtough & Fletcher what Van Gaal was to Woody - a slick talking professor who they are in awe of.

 

[Keefy18]

That’s the unique thing about bringing Rangnick in though, he’s not there just to manage the team for 6 months then feck off. He’s then going upstairs in a consultancy role and if he’s actually given any sort of power which remains to be seen with our board but if he’s given any real influence then he could be very beneficial for the club in the long run.

I'd imagine the bulk of his time will be in Vienna going forward and only receive the odd call from Murtagh.

He isn't going to be around much to help United over the next 2 years tbh.

 

[manichester]

Pro footballers who cannot pass a ball 5 yards, can't run and get paid thousands of pounds a week. There are a lot of bad apples in a rotten barrel.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I'm not defending him, he's been poor as a manager.
But to claim hiring someone who wasn't a manager/coach at the time, and to give them a consultant role post term wasn't a stop gap to help the new manager and change the direction is chatting rubbish really.

Yeah.

It's like hiring Wenger isn't it - clearly knowledgeable but way too old to be managing in the Prem.

We've brought him in for the job he's about to do, not the one he's doing now.

 

[Leftback99]

Here’s a thought - if the players are ignoring the manager’s instructions then maybe that’s also the manager’s fault for having no charisma or authority?

The Ralf apologists on this forum are something else. He has been fecking shit. Yes he’s making all the right observations but half the fans and pundits in this country have made those same observations. As an interim manager he has been a failure. Nothing to show for it in terms of results or style.

The phrase “on the beach” is rightfully applied to the players but Ralf has been there for months - he’s got a sweet ass consultancy gig lined up at the end of a six month work experience being Man United manager, during which he seemingly has no hard targets or pressure on him and is treated like a demi god just for observing that we’re a badly run club with a weak squad.

“But he’s observed first hand which players aren’t pulling their weight, dossier etc etc” - literally any staff member inside the dressing room could have observed who the bad apples are.

Rangnick is to Murtough & Fletcher what Van Gaal was to Woody - a slick talking professor who they are in awe of.

Definitely. Someone like big Sam would have got far more out of this squad. Terrible appointment.

 

[Garethw]

I'm really not arsed about the pitch...if Rangnick has worked out the 'bad eggs' in the dressing room and produced a report that is acted upon then he's done the job he needed to.

I'm wary he'll just be ignored though and the club will just protect assets though and if that's the case, nothing will change.

Lets be honest, any one of us could produce a similar report without even being in the dressing room. It’s obvious who should be sold and released.

If Rangnick was brought to the club to revolutionise the structure then we would be announcing him as the new Director of Football once his interim manager stint ends.

I cannot believe that some fans still believe that the board were willing to write off the entire season in December just to make Rangnick a one day a week consultant. Nobody at boardroom level would have imagined how bad a manager Rangnick is. He was appointed to steady the ship and get top 4 as a bare minimum and he’s completely failed.

A disaster of an appointment.

 

[Amir]

Maybe should have stuck with Ole to the end of the season

Since letting go of him was such a difficult and emotional thing for so many people around the club, fans included, I'm happy it was done when it was done. Partly because of the fear that an improvement in the team would have been considered an excuse to keep him. Partly for the buffer between that era to Ten Hag arriving.

 

[VanDeBank]

Lets be honest, any one of us could produce a similar report without even being in the dressing room. It’s obvious who should be sold and released.

That's obviously not the case when there is a ton of disagreement on here on who should be sold with the toxicity in mind.

Not that I agree that was his primary job. He was hired because he had the best sales pitch and wouldn't rock the boat like they feared Conte would.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Since letting go of him was such a difficult and emotional thing for so many people around the club, fans included, I'm happy it was done when it was done. Partly because of the fear that an improvement in the team would have been considered an excuse to keep him. Partly for the buffer between that era to Ten Hag arriving.

Exactly this. Ragnick’s managerial reign has been pony but it’s no less bad than what came before. This is just our form this whole season and it’s a joke we stayed in touching distance of top four so long & gives me great hope for next year under ETH.

Ole’s position was untenable, there was no one good available for interim and so they brought in a DoF who they thought might be able to steer us towards top four. Bad move. However let’s see how we develop as a club these next few years, it’s clear we want to at least think about big changes and staff have been moved on, as long as ETH actually tries to implement changes in our squad I do think the future looks bright for us.

 

[Robertd0803]

No. It's all hindsight.
It was the right decision at the time to sack Ole. He had it coming. It was also the right decision not to risk keeping Carrick (that doesn't mean that it couldn't have worked out better in hindsight). It was even right not to hire Conte, who is excellent, if the club had someone like Ten Hag in mind for the future.
And it was right to hire an experienced interim, since the desired manager(s) would only come in summer.

To me, it was the wrong choice of interim, but who knows, it could also have worked out better, for example if Rangnick could have found a better coaching staff. But we don't know what the market was like. It hasn't worked out well, but it's not so important.
A new chapter starts in summer, and that chapter starts on the basis of a number of very good decisions, even if one of them has not worked out.
Interim managers are always just a bridge for a gap. Time to look forward and to not obsess over the present.

Exactly. 100% this. The second half of the season was an absolute shit show but at least all the decisions made are with an eye going forward hopefully.

(Should probably mention the first half of the season was a shit show as well).

 

[Garethw]

That's obviously not the case when there is a ton of disagreement on here on who should be sold with the toxicity in mind.

Not that I agree that was his primary job. He was hired because he had the best sales pitch and wouldn't rock the boat like they feared Conte would.

If you asked every member of the Cafe to compile a report on who should be kept and who should be sold/released, I’d say that about 90% of those lists would be identical.

A top manager and coaching staff would know who needs to stay and who needs to go after a single training session as well.

 

[arthurka]

There seems to be that there are still a lot of us who do not fault the players. How we still blame the managers is baffling to me.

 

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

When he took the Austria job

 

[Stumpy]

i honestly can’t believe what I’m read about Ralph. The guy has been here a few months and that’s it. He’s dealing with the same players who sold the other managers down the river but you lot still blame him. It’s absolutely laughable. If you lot think he’s in there for tactical reasons then you’re delusional as he’s only in the there to pick the crap out and be a mole. Why else would we have an interim who is staying in a consultant role? Forget about his tactics and focus on the fact that he’ll be getting rid of the crap you all hate and us proper fans in the stretty all feel the same.

stop being part of the problem and support the current manager and get behind Ten Haag

 

[m1tch]

We haven't had a manager for the past few months, we've had an interim whose main focus has been to get this clubs structure and footballing brain rewired.

But according to the man himself that has absolutely not been his main focus since the appointment. To the degree that 0% of his focus has been on his post interim manager role, a role he's described as totally undefined. So has he not being telling the truth about that?

 

[VanDeBank]

If you asked every member of the Cafe to compile a report on who should be kept and who should be sold/released, I’d say that about 90% of those lists would be identical.

A top manager and coaching staff would know who needs to stay and who needs to go after a single training session as well.

Not if you don't include the players that should be sold based on lack of footballing ability.
I mentioned this in the post you quoted. ("with toxicity in mind")

Single training session

If you say so...