Yes but Conte would’ve been a full time appointment which is completely different. I’m taking about an interim manager which the board were adamant was the route they were going down. I think these players looked at it as a substitute teacher and we can all piss about in the classroom and not listen because this guy isn’t going to be here at the end of the season.
Turning on Rangnick
- Thread starter horsechoker
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Yes but Conte would’ve been a full time appointment which is completely different. I’m taking about an interim manager which the board were adamant was the route they were going down. I think these players looked at it as a substitute teacher and we can all piss about in the classroom and not listen because this guy isn’t going to be here at the end of the season.
More worrying are the fans wanting the managers sacked and shielding the players. You can bet your arse we'll have a horde calling for ten hags neck whilst shielding the likes of rashford and maguire (assuming lingard and pogba are no longer here
)Yeah being told you’re shit, can’t play to the required level and won’t be working here next year will do that
Short term management needs everything RR hasn’t got and he took the totally wrong approach in public for this six months to be a success.
This isn’t to say the players are blameless. There’s a hell of a lot that need moving on obviously, but look at what Howe has done at Newcastle. It should have been possible to get this team top four and make these same observations in private.
Why should the players listen when there are no consequences ? Fans will still protect the players. Its always the managers fault you see, jose was a taskmaster and mean, ole was a mate and allowed them to do whatever they wanted and rangnick is a loose canon telling it like it is and not protecting the players.
No one will shield a single player in this team moving forward. We all know it’s the players.More worrying are the fans wanting the managers sacked and shielding the players. You can bet your arse we'll have a horde calling for ten hags neck whilst shielding the likes of rashford and maguire (assuming lingard and pogba are no longer here
We had our moments to remember under Ole, Mourinho and LVG. With Ralf we have that win against Brentford. I wish him well with Austria but there will be no fond memories of his time here. Carrick is our manager of the year.
Howe is a full time appointment who will be there next year. Comparing apples and oranges.
Never believed in him once, can't say I'm surprised. Can't call it "turning on him" though
I've enjoyed his honesty, that's about it in terms of management. I feel he turned away from his earlier principles, for what? He's played old players, not given a chance to any youngsters. He's taken into the trap of many managers before him and tried to cobble something together, whereas I thought he'd be the start of something new.
Obviously the club probably still tasked him with top 4, but I think we should have took the hit a long time ago and changed it up. Introduced new faces from the youth.
The way he gave up on his pressing game after 45 minutes was really disappointing and I knew then that the season would be more boring crap, which it has been. He's shot himself in the foot massively. He would have done himself more favours coming and trying to implement the football he's made a name for, even if it didn't work this season. It would have put us in better stead going into next season.
Obviously the club probably still tasked him with top 4, but I think we should have took the hit a long time ago and changed it up. Introduced new faces from the youth.
The way he gave up on his pressing game after 45 minutes was really disappointing and I knew then that the season would be more boring crap, which it has been. He's shot himself in the foot massively. He would have done himself more favours coming and trying to implement the football he's made a name for, even if it didn't work this season. It would have put us in better stead going into next season.
There’s been plenty of examples of interim managers doing well. I’m using Howe as an example of how coaching can be done quickly and effectively. Being interim wouldn’t matter if the players believed in Ralf.
We already know who are the downtooling idiots. So we can easily remove them from being near the squad.
It's not about giving the players a free pass. If we get rid of them and make them look bad, we destroy their negotiation power with any eventual new club they may sign with. You won't tell me that otehr clubs don't actually see what we see right now. I don't care how much money for transfers out; I just want those mofos gone.
The point has already been made a while ago. There is just no point in emphasizing the obvious now. The fans have turned their cannons on the players. Have you seen how Lingard, Pogba' Maguire, and Rashford have become lightning rods for the fanbase's anger?
We have one more game left on the final day of the season. If Ralf does not play the kids and the others who still are motivated, then I would honestly wouldn't any further consultancy anymore. Lingard should not be in the match squad. Rashford doesn't deserve it either. Pogba and Captain Fatfeck should be nowhere near the team any longer.
Always thought he was the cheap option, but despite being a managerial disaster, part of me still wants to see what his consultancy brings about.
ten Hag doesn’t seem like the sort to be swayed, but he might get something useful out of Rangnick.
ten Hag doesn’t seem like the sort to be swayed, but he might get something useful out of Rangnick.
It's not binary. The problems as I see it are:
1. Poor recruitment for a long time now;
2. Too much arm around the shoulder softness from Ole to the point where players were allowed to do whatever the feck they wanted including holidays in Dubai when supposedly injured. The players appear to have downed tools to an extent since when the arm around the shoulder was removed;
3. The current manager being interim and not permanent, players are not interested as they knew from day one he wouldn't be in charge in six months. I think even Conte would have struggled if interim.
4. Ralph being known as the godfather of the press, it is known that this style of football takes at minimum 6 months to implement in addition you need the right players and a pre season. Why did we hire Ralph knowing this?
5. Like him or hate him, Ralph has failed. This is a fact. He has not motivated the players, team selection has been strange at times and results have been poor.
What we are seeing now is a combo of the above and probably more, not just one issue.
1. Poor recruitment for a long time now;
2. Too much arm around the shoulder softness from Ole to the point where players were allowed to do whatever the feck they wanted including holidays in Dubai when supposedly injured. The players appear to have downed tools to an extent since when the arm around the shoulder was removed;
3. The current manager being interim and not permanent, players are not interested as they knew from day one he wouldn't be in charge in six months. I think even Conte would have struggled if interim.
4. Ralph being known as the godfather of the press, it is known that this style of football takes at minimum 6 months to implement in addition you need the right players and a pre season. Why did we hire Ralph knowing this?
5. Like him or hate him, Ralph has failed. This is a fact. He has not motivated the players, team selection has been strange at times and results have been poor.
What we are seeing now is a combo of the above and probably more, not just one issue.
Managers are rightfully judged on results and Ralf was brought in to steady the ship and aim for top 4. He has failed badly. I really was expecting much much better from him. Blame the players all you want but every season you will see managers take over sides in far worst states that us and you will see significant improvement.
He has done a bad job
He has done a bad job
Do people realise that Ragnick was brought in to see what needs to be done ready for next season?
Yeh okay sorry misunderstood your point. I do agree with you here. I still think there were better interim managers out there who would have steadied the ship and got better results though, but I also agree with you (and Keane) that motivation is much harder when you know the gaffa is out on his arse in 6 months.
Nonsense
Well that along with the more important job of making us look better, improving tactics and results and getting us top 4/competing in the cups. Basically he’s done the absolute bare minimum and the easiest part of the job, he’s failed at the rest, badly.
He was brought in to get top four, otherwise he could have gone straight upstairs and we’d have got a different interim
No, he was primarily hired as someone who could provide the full time manager with a dossier of what needs to be done, hence the reason he is being hired on a consultancy basis afterwards.
He's not a manager, he's a technician, he's a director.
Never in the history of football has a manager been hired to solely check what needs to be done in 6 months time
Are you saying he wasn’t tasked to try and win football matches and attempt top 4 which was very much achievable when the hire was made?
The defending of him has turned to madness
Who do think could’ve done any better on an interim basis? I seem to remember Rangnick being one of the top picks at the time and no one was complaining when he came in. The fact he wasn’t able to get anything out of this squad tells me the problems go far deeper than the manager and have been allowed to fester for a long time.
Myth. The whole consultancy gig was just a sweetener to the interim contract - he had a 3 year deal at Lokomotiv and to make up the value of the contract we added 2 years of consultancy.
I really thought more people would stop believing this nonsense once he was confirmed to be managing another team once the seasons over. I'm sure he'll write up his dossier, but I don't imagine we'll be seeing Ralf anywhere near Carrington ever again.
Except by his own admission he said he was tasked with getting top four and competing with the cups which is literally the bare minimum. We didn’t bring him in and say “to be honest Ralf it doesn’t matter what you do as long as you profile the players, season is a write off anyway…” We had plenty to play for and we only needed to see very marginal improvement on ole to see that, instead he managed to take us backwards.
Top picks? Some of us didnt know who he was when he joined us and the reason for that is obvious. A lot of us worked out he was a joke pretty early on, this thread gives an indication of that, read the start of it.
The plan seemed sound to me. I was all for Ralf, but he has still failed spectacularly. Just because people were pleased with the appointment doesn’t afford any hindsight on what is to come.
Exactly nail on the head sir.
The nonsense is going back to oles reign to defend this mess of the last 6 months.
An actual manager may have got a lot more out of this season. It wasn’t an impossible task and we were in a decent position and in cups.
I’ve since learned in this thread he wasn’t brought in to manage the team anyway, just to assess it for the next manger. Each to their own.
Yep, I saw hope in the appointment too, based on his time managing in Germany. But it's pretty clear he's out of his depth here - maybe in part due to rustiness, in part adapting to the league and obviously due to a huge disconnect with the players.
The staff he's been working with also have pretty comical CV's. The players have been appalling, but that in no way absolves Rangnick and his team.
Everyone knows you blame the players only. They should be all fired. Unreal nonsense.
Nice job of deflecting all the blame back onto Ole
not wrong though is he ?
I blame the players and the manager BUT the players share more of the blame atm.
That’s the unique thing about bringing Rangnick in though, he’s not there just to manage the team for 6 months then feck off. He’s then going upstairs in a consultancy role and if he’s actually given any sort of power which remains to be seen with our board but if he’s given any real influence then he could be very beneficial for the club in the long run. He’s another football man to help make football decisions which can only be a good thing. It might look like I’m blindly supporting Ralf but I’m really not, I’ve been disappointed with his performance as manager as welI. I certainly expected better but at the same time I think anyone would have struggled to get a tune of this squad in 6 months and I also think his best work may be done in his 2 year consultancy role.
No. You dont need to give him the manager job to do that. He was brought in as a interim manager, and as consultant for the next years. Since he did not coach with focus on short term he should have been fired in early january. Simple as that.
Hopefully you’re right and we’ll see something from him in the next two years in a different role.
His spell as a manager has been nothing short of a disaster and I don’t buy the excuses people are providing him that he was never meant to manage or expect anything from him while managing this year.
I mean he is objectively wrong.
I called it when he was signed and I had looked into who he was. Right guy, wrong job.
Before he was a DoF and somewhat retired from actual managing, Ralf was mostly a stop gap for clubs that followed his approach to football.
Koeman would have done better if he wasn't ready for a break. He's actually managed in recent years, won some trinkets and had experience managing big names like Messi and Van Dijk. He also wouldn't have minded being an actual interim since he was desperate for the Holland job again. His approach to football is more pragmatic than Ralf's.
Barca flop just doesn't sound as sexy as Gegenpressungmeisterlehrersensei and Ralf has a good sales pitch.
Can you imagine the furor if that happened? Now if he was only an interim manager, with no brief to be a part of the rebuild/reset, I might agree with you because he has failed miserably. I doubt he had any idea of how poorly the club was being run and the size of the task appointed to him. I think he worked it out pretty quickly and fixed his sights on getting a new man in and paving the way for a new era.