seems like the cafe consensus is pro military on this one?
Turkey
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That's why the Mosques support Erdogan and are calling people out to protest against the coup.
That's one side, though. It's been stated numerous times tonight that Erdogan is both supported and despised in equal measure; many will rally to his side and support him, but I'd suspect there will also be an extremely high number of Turks who are pleased to see him gone. Not sure the military are necessarily handling this well, but to say they're not acting in the interests of civilians is a blanket statement. Especially when Erdogan's fecked off, yet wants his people to fight in the streets. Are those actions those of someone with the best interests of his people in mind?
crazy sense at IST Airport, protesters surrounding a tank.
Ah right. I'm off to bed then.That would indicate the coup has failed
I get the impression its not got great backing.
This is just irresponsible and could potentially lead to civil war , don't see any benefit to this.
When it comes to Turkish politics I find it very hard to be pro anything.
They did that in Egypt as well. They were pro-Mubarak until it looked like he would get booted, then they were pro-opposition.
Getting the impression the coup is failing but it seems massive either way. Even if it fails, I get the feeling Erdogan's going to struggle to maintain peace and law after this, even if he does manage to retain power. For the military to take over, even if only temporarily, is damning for him.
Don't think anyone can even pretend to know the best outcome, we don't know who's involved and what their aims are. If it's just a small section of the military then it's not only undemocratic but reckless in the extreme, that'll likely result in a whole lot of dead civilians.
Being anti-Erdogan doesn't necessarily = pro-military.
As does a leader asking his people to go out in the streets under such circumstances...
Some people will go out in the streets since some Turkish are pro Erdogan, like some people were pro Saddam and were in the streets, like some people were pro Pinochet.
True.
Reports about an army helicopter with officers affiliated with coup being shot down by an army fighter jet. Surreal.
This . The whole principle of doing something like this is very irresponsible. We've all seen what civil war has done to countries in that region.
Well the military is supposedly representing urban elites who are scared of a good scrap.
The people on the street will sympathise with Erdagon more conservative interpretations of Turkish culture and islam
It's difficult to chose a side, personally I understand why but disagree on the method.
Jesus, that reddit thing just showed a pic of a dead soldier (apparently at the hands of Erdogan supporters).
I just find it so reckless .
This would be my position too, but I know nothing about Turkish politics if I am being honest.
So is that army shooting army?
But why would they go out for him if they don't believe in him and that he's such a teriible leader, it doesn't make sense. Why would someone risk their lives over him.
Could be. I'd presume it depends on whether this is a rogue military group/branch, who are also competing against sects of the army still backing Erdogan's, or if the coup is being supported by the entire military.
If Erdogan survives that, he´ll purge anyone who might be able to oppose him in the future. A lot of heads will roll in the security apparatus....
Because different people have different opinions - some love him, and some despise him.
More anti Erdogan than pro military.
Also it wasn't the leader who started this conflict, the military are abusing their power.
Because some people are behind him, you don't really think that all the country is in the streets?
Not some people he was voted in by the majority ffs.
From a poster on reddit
If this coup loses, Turkey is fecked. Erdogan will come back to power significantly stronger now that he can "legitimately" purge the military, take more drastic actions to "protect democracy', suppress anybody who's a "gulenist"(first it was those who were PKK sympathsizers, now it'll be anyone who is a Gulenist sympathizer), and silence the opposition(who would be equated with supporting the overthrow of government).
As a Turk, I'm severely saddened with the direction the country is going in. These "nationalists" aren't Pro-Turkey, they're Pro-Erdogan. They fecking worship the guy...
If this coup loses, Turkey is fecked. Erdogan will come back to power significantly stronger now that he can "legitimately" purge the military, take more drastic actions to "protect democracy', suppress anybody who's a "gulenist"(first it was those who were PKK sympathsizers, now it'll be anyone who is a Gulenist sympathizer), and silence the opposition(who would be equated with supporting the overthrow of government).
As a Turk, I'm severely saddened with the direction the country is going in. These "nationalists" aren't Pro-Turkey, they're Pro-Erdogan. They fecking worship the guy...
That's the regular army, apparently pro-Erdogan.
Latest reports are it was carrying opposition soldiers and were shot down by fighter jets.
No doubt, but even then I struggle to see someone maintaining a legitimate and peaceful rule when they've literally been forced to flea to another country and have been unable to return for a certain period of time. I'd imagine his political opponents would also jump on it, highlighting the instability and division that's coming with his rule. He'd then either be defeated, or would become more dictatorial, spawning potential for more conflict.
Certainly, if he survives this and gets back into power, I just can't see him maintaining his position without serious, serious bloodshed.
Could it be that Erdogan has engineered the coup so that he ends up in a more powerful position?
So the military knew the stakes and are about to feck it up for everyone.
Interesting. I mean, it's an interesting theory, but seems incredibly, incredibly dangerous in case it backfires. Feels like there'd be so many technicalities and logistics that could result in it going horrendously.
ConfusedTapewormTurkey 16 points 22 minutes ago from reddit
I don't know what just happened, but it definitely was a weird attempt. It was... I don't know, weak. You'd expect the military to occupy the fecking parliament during a coup, not an airport 500km away from it. You'd expect the members of the government to be arrested, not freely making statements on TV.
It's either a false flag kinda thing, like a lot of people are saying, or just a few rogue military people doing what rogue military people do. Not gonna end well in any case.