Not sure if I should have a framed picture of Comey, Mueller or both in my house when this is all hopefully done with in a satisfying manner.
Trump/Russia/SDNY investigation
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
This whole affair has sickened me to the point I have fundamentally less hope for my country and in my fellow countrymen than before it all broke out. You have a generations long adversary with a history of covert foreign influence they call "active measures", run by a 'cheki' (career KGB case officer) and all 19 US intelligence agencies validate the claims of interference, and then, despite all of that, you have so many argue to the hilt that it's down to liberal politicking. I do not doubt the Democrats would have been remotely this interested in it if Hillary Clinton were the beneficiary, but Russian interference in the 2016 election is a fact at this point.
I am disgusted--even a little despondent.
I am disgusted--even a little despondent.
It will take a massive wave election in the next two cycles to undo all of this.
Frame away. They are the good guys in this battle.
Oh I don't doubt Comey and Mueller have been behind some extremely objectionable things themselves but I like to assume a lot of it was "under the orders of-". Also, I don' t anything Greenwald says serious. Seems to me the links between him and Wikileaks (Snowden I still don't quite know what to think of) are questionable at best. Not to mention his at times odd blind spot for Russia as well.
If that's from todays presser in WV, then he meant the purpose of the memo wasn't to discredit the Mueller investigation.
You really are the Victor Meldrew of this thread. I will be very interested in you're reaction if Muller brings the house down, I suspect it will involve a Clinton.
It's rediculous to me that Greenwald, Snowden and Assange see themselves as the champion of truth and democracy yet have their tongues so far up Putins ass.
Greenwald has little credibility in mainstream circles, which is why his predictably contrarian wums are generally ignored.
That's great and all but the report is from the ACLU in 2013.
That reference is lost on me. Ive already stated multiple times I prefer a Trump presidency to a Pence presidency. I choose to remain focuses on the real enemies of progress in this country. The republican party, the national security apparatus, the neoliberal democrats.
It's illuminating how many liberals are willing to jump into bed with the likes of Bill Kristol and the FBI just because Trump exposes how flawed so many of our institutions are.
Trump will eventually be out of office and the logical end of The Resistance will be to scatter to the wind (see the famous "if Hillary had won we would be at brunch right now" sign). There has to be a left wing movement beyond Trump and that means not compromising on single payer and wall street regulation and workers rights. And it means not getting teary eyed every time Jeff Flake or some other craven politician says "We are all Americans" despite voting with Trump 93% of the time. It means constantly advocating for important left wing issues and keeping the pressure on Democrats so that they "evolve".
Imagine if Trump died tomorrow. People celebrate, there's a funeral and then what? We still face the same republican party and the same neoliberal democrats. Trump doesn't change the challenges we face, he is merely a symptom of them.
Please tell me you’re not referring to the memo when you say this?
I suppose the ACLU is a puppet of Moscow too?
Im not.
To be fair, I don't think there's anything wrong with people wanting to offer praise to those willing to uphold those institutions, and hold account those who're violating them.
Although plenty of fair points as well.
But let's take critical look at the FBI, which routinely violates the civil rights of minorities. I suppose that's a step up from telling Martin Luther King Jr to kill himself though.
Of course - not trying to argue the FBI are necessarily a bastion of decency. But they remain an important institution and the fact Trump is consistently trying to undermine them simply because they dare to challenge him is relevant and concerning. I'd imagine the wider discussion regarding the FBI would be more suited to the general US politics thread.
And while I agree that a Pence Presidency isn't going to be better for the average American being hurt by the current administration than the Trump one, I do think there's reason to hope that Trump being ousted would cause a significant divide within the Republican party which could potentially hand them a massive advantage come 2020. Of course...could just lead to a Pence presidency which is more stable for them if Trump falls away from public attention but if he's impeached I doubt he'd take it kindly...and that sort of division would be ideal for getting rid of the Republicans.
It is concerning but who is going to change their mind because of it? Everyone who already hates Trump will continue hating Trump. Those who support him would support him if he shot someone on 5th Avenue. What's the point?
Surely to ensure those who do genuinely try to violate institutions key to US democracy are punished? As would ideally be the case if Trump - or those close to him - are proven to have done so?
Do you actually believe he will be punished? I sure don't. I think maximum punishment for him is impeachment. They will probably get some associates of his and maybe Kushner.
That last line of Comey's was unfortunate & ill-advised - there aren't many streets and schools named after Hoover either...or even FBI buildings.
I'm incredibly sceptical as to whether he'll actually get legally punished because he's rich and powerful and will no doubt wriggle his way out of it - nevertheless impeachment would still demonstrate that a politician who tries to subvert democratic norms or who violates certain institutions is at least politically punished for doing so. Which I'd say is important.
The last time we demonstrated that was 44 years ago. I don't have much faith in us actually making that point as long as Henry Kissinger is Washington royalty.
Damn, Steve.
They can't truly punish Trump because that would undermine the institutions he's undermining.
Nice one.Indeed
Truth.
Yeah agreed on that, it's all coming off a bit desperate. For something that is apparently no big deal and fake news, THEY sure are spending a whole lot of time on it. I hope that sticks in the minds of people and they act accordingly.
Gates has flipped 
Gates has flipped
That's what it sounds like. Mueller probably has more than enough to compel him to change sides in exchange for leniency.
Even Fixed News are covering the Hope Hicks story as very ominous for Trump. For the first time ever, I actually agree with the Judge here.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/...eller-russia-investigation-news-bad-president
http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/...eller-russia-investigation-news-bad-president
I made the mistake of reading some of the comments to that article.
Hilarious watching them turn on the Judge for saying something vaguely rational.
SHOCKING Deep State Poll Reveals Disturbing Results
There have been cases reported way before the election that do coroborate this MO:
First, they target a Muslim: not due to any evidence of intent or capability to engage in terrorism, but rather for the “radical” political views he expresses. In most cases, the Muslim targeted by the FBI is a very young (late teens, early 20s), adrift, unemployed loner who has shown no signs of mastering basic life functions, let alone carrying out a serious terror attack, and has no known involvement with actual terrorist groups.
They then find another Muslim who is highly motivated to help disrupt a “terror plot”: either because they’re being paid substantial sums of money by the FBI or because (as appears to be the case here) they are charged with some unrelated crime and are desperate to please the FBI in exchange for leniency (or both). The FBI then gives the informant a detailed attack plan, and sometimes even the money and other instruments to carry it out, and the informant then shares all of that with the target. Typically, the informant also induces, lures, cajoles, and persuades the target to agree to carry out the FBI-designed plot. In some instances where the target refuses to go along, they have their informant offer huge cash inducements to the impoverished target.
Once they finally get the target to agree, the FBI swoops in at the last minute, arrests the target, issues a press release praising themselves for disrupting a dangerous attack (which it conceived of, funded, and recruited the operatives for), and the DOJ and federal judges send their target to prison for years or even decades
Plenty of reports back up this methodology. And 'orders from above' won't form the FBI's MO of using this method entrapment.
As much as people may love the FBI going after Trump they're far from ethical bastion of democracy people want to portray them in the good guy (FBI) vs bad guy (Trump) battle
Right now in all honesty, who cares? There's a full blown attack on US democracy going on, with the traitors on the right demonstrating daily that they'll happily burn down the institutions that hold America together as a (generally) law abiding and democractic nation. If they succeed then next will be an even stronger attack on the free media, and over time, with no exaggeration, America ceases to be the leader of the free world. Europe is already moving away from the US over Trump, and if you think they'll stand by the US if the Trump faction wins out, then you're very much mistaken.
This isn't just some American political infighting, it could genuinely determine the direction of the world in the century to come. There will be people who laugh at that and call it hyperbole, but its true.