Transgender rights discussion

Dr. Dwayne said:
The definition of child is a human being between infancy and puberty.

Since they don't have those key biological characteristics of males or females (i.e. gametes) to distinguish them, we use gender based terms to classify children based on their masculine or feminine characteristics.
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Im sorry, but dont you consider a being born with a penis and testicles or a vagina an biological key characteristic of being male or female? I know there is a tiny minority of intersex people but otherwise its pretty clear whether you are male or female to almost everyone. My birth certifact has me down as male. I didnt have to wait to puberty before someone determined that.

""What is the biological basis of being male and female?
A person with XX chromosomes usually has female sex and reproductive organs, and is therefore usually assigned biologically female. A person with XY chromosomes usually has male sex and reproductive organs, and is therefore usually assigned biologically male."

They are primary sex characteristics. So i can't see how they arent key.
 
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Gehrman said:
Im sorry, but dont you consider a being born with a penis and testicles or a vagina an biological key characteristic of being male or female? I know there is a tiny minority of intersex people but otherwise its pretty clear whether you are male or female to almost everyone. My birth certifact has me down as male. I didnt have to wait to puberty before someone determined that.

""What is the biological basis of being male and female?
A person with XX chromosomes usually has female sex and reproductive organs, and is therefore usually assigned biologically female. A person with XY chromosomes usually has male sex and reproductive organs, and is therefore usually assigned biologically male."

They are primary sex characteristics. So i can't see how they arent key.
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No, I wait until they are capable of reproduction before I define them using those characteristics.

Boys and girls are fine terms. You are free to use whatever terms you like.
 
Solius said:
Does Rowling ever do anything else with her time?
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Genuinely. For the life of me I can’t understand how you can have that much money and the best way you see fit to enjoy your time is raging about the same thing on Twitter over and over and over.

That has to be some kind of mental illness.
 
Cloud7 said:
Genuinely. For the life of me I can’t understand how you can have that much money and the best way you see fit to enjoy your time is raging about the same thing on Twitter over and over and over.

That has to be some kind of mental illness.
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Glinner has the same problem, with whatever money he gets to keep from the divorce anyway.
 
Gehrman said:
Then you also can't say who is or who os not. Most ordinary people consider it completely intertwined with your biological sex. Which is why they can define as a woman as someone born a girl grown into a woman.
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Most people voted for Brexit.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think it’s easiest just to go man/woman, boy/girl and add cis/trans if needed. Male/female is just an alternative to boy/girl/man/woman that doesn’t bring age into it (or the need to be human!)
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I'd say it is easier to just use man or woman (CIS or trans) in almost all circumstances as barring political discussion it usually doesn't need to stated or clarified imo. And the term girl is a bit problematic as it is often used in a way that can be rather sexist e.g. calling women girls.
 
Wibble said:
THAT is what you worry about? Odd hill to die on.
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The "why do you care?" argument is not convincing. Lots of things don't have to affect me or you personally, but we can still have an opinion on it. Gay marriage doesn't affect me personally, but I can still think it should be legal and tell conservatives to feck off.

And I'll repeat: we make fun of incels for using the word "female" to describe women.

Nevertheless, no one is preventing people from using the word "women", I get that. I just find it funny how people now think words like woman or girl are "problematic".
 
Wibble said:
Most people voted for Brexit.
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I know the implication is that most people are stupid and therefore too stupid to be at the frontiers of gender ideology, but to be honest I dont think most people spend a lot time thinking about it, for most, what a man is or what is woman is already defined through our experiences and conditioning through our childhood.
 
VorZakone said:
The "why do you care?" argument is not convincing. Lots of things don't have to affect me or you personally, but we can still have an opinion on it. Gay marriage doesn't affect me personally, but I can still think it should be legal and tell conservatives to feck off.

And I'll repeat: we make fun of incels for using the word "female" to describe women.

Nevertheless, no one is preventing people from using the word "women", I get that. I just find it funny how people now think words like woman or girl are "problematic".
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I'm wondering why that specific bit of language discussion is of any concern? Not like anyone is going to make you use it. And if you don't the worse case is you end up calling a hot trans woman a hot woman. Which I doubt she would mind, unless you were a leering whistling feckwit about it. I'd guess that calling women girls is more "problematic" than calling CIS and/or trans women, women.

And I'm unaware of why incels would (or wouldn't) want to call women women. I tend to make fun of them for being sad, sexist, rapey, inadequate who displace said inadequacy onto others.
 
Gehrman said:
I know the implication is that most people are stupid and therefore too stupid to be at the frontiers of gender ideology, but to be honest I dont think most people spend a lot time thinking about it, for most, what a man is or what is woman is already defined through our experiences and conditioning through our childhood.
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I was saying that what most people think (common knowledge, common sense) is a terrible metric by which to discuss such things. Stupidity is common, but laziness and a lack of critical thinking ability is far more of a problem imo.
 
Gehrman said:
I was a bit surprised this didnt cause a bump.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-restrictions-on-puberty-blockers
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This is a blatent attack on the trans community and is horrific, the powers used to create this haven't been used for around 25 years, isn't something did on a whim, this was done as a deliberate attack. If these blockers were harmful, they shouldn't be used at all for any treatment, yet here we are being told that they are safe for delaying puberty for some people, but not others?? The fact they are even making it a criminal offense to own them is beyond me. Thankfully it's only a 3 month order

What we do know is that since the Bell v Tavistock case up at least 20 young trans kids have taken there own lives due to being refused treatment, prior to that we'd not lost a single one for many a year. This government, the anti trans brigade have blood on there hands and hopefully some parent will take legal action against those involved personally.

They've allowed this country who were once leaders in not only lgbtq+ rights and care to become a third world nation, where the next target is abortion. With the election coming up, these dishonest cranks will no longer be in power and hopefully most of them won't even be in Parliment at all.
 
Tribec said:
This is a blatent attack on the trans community and is horrific, the powers used to create this haven't been used for around 25 years, isn't something did on a whim, this was done as a deliberate attack. If these blockers were harmful, they shouldn't be used at all for any treatment, yet here we are being told that they are safe for delaying puberty for some people, but not others?? The fact they are even making it a criminal offense to own them is beyond me. Thankfully it's only a 3 month order

What we do know is that since the Bell v Tavistock case up at least 20 young trans kids have taken there own lives due to being refused treatment, prior to that we'd not lost a single one for many a year. This government, the anti trans brigade have blood on there hands and hopefully some parent will take legal action against those involved personally.

They've allowed this country who were once leaders in not only lgbtq+ rights and care to become a third world nation, where the next target is abortion. With the election coming up, these dishonest cranks will no longer be in power and hopefully most of them won't even be in Parliment at all.
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I think I already explained this to you? Maybe it was to someone else. There’s a big difference between delaying puberty in someone who is experiencing it inappropriately early (an approved use for these medicines) and delaying it in someone who would otherwise go through puberty at a normal age. This ban applies in the latter scenario and will be removed as soon as there’s solid evidence that the benefits of delayed puberty for these patients outweigh the risks. Which is a reasonable thing to do in any scenario where there’s insufficient evidence to justify a medical intervention.
 
No difference what so ever, what's the difference between delaying puberty for someone with early onset puberty and someone who's trans? Nothing, it's not like they are using the drugs for life an use them over a similar time frame. Evidence is out there, just that Cass decided not to use it as instructed by the ministers who are now banning the treatments.

By introducing this ban, they are stopping the new gender clinics that they set up to replace the Tavistock in Liverpool and London from prescribing them to patients who have agreed to take part in the study that Cass decided she wanted undertaken. So how will the evidence that she has determind that is further needed to prove the benfits going to be gained? I wouldn't mind there's no evidence to suggest it's harmful, use of blockers are reversable after time, that's been proven.

I'll say it now this Tory government is treating Trans kids and trans people like the Nazi's treated lgbtq people in the 30's. It's a good job they'll be gone soon or the rest of the lgbtq+ community will be under fire.
 
Tribec said:
No difference what so ever, what's the difference between delaying puberty for someone with early onset puberty and someone who's trans? Nothing, it's not like they are using the drugs for life a use them over a similar time frame. Evidence is out there, just that Cass decided not to use it as instructed by the ministers who are now banning the treatments.
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Surely that’s obvious? The concerns are around the consequences of having puberty abnormally late. Which is not an issue when early puberty is delayed. Risks aside, the other unknown is whether use in trans kids actually produces a long term benefit.

By introducing this ban, they are stopping the new gender clinics that they set up to replace the Tavistock in Liverpool and London from prescribing them to patients who have agreed to take part in the study that Cass decided she wanted undertaken. So how will the evidence that she has determind that is further needed to prove the benfits going to be gained? I wouldn't mind there's no evidence to suggest it's harmful, use of blockers are reversable after time, that's been proven.

I'll say it now this Tory government is treating Trans kids and trans people like the Nazi's treated lgbtq people in the 30's. It's a good job they'll be gone soon or the rest of the lgbtq+ community will be under fire.
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Nonsense. This ban doesn’t prevent them being prescribed in the context of a clinical trial. It just means that this is now the only way they will be prescribed. Which is exactly the approach taken with all other medicines that are not licensed to treat the condition they’re being used to treat.

If the study generates evidence that it’s an intervention where the benefits outweigh the risks then they can be prescribed more widely. That’s just good medicine.
 
Realise this hasn't been posted here. It's a report in response to the Cass-review, and highlights a lot of problems with it. Or rather, shows it for the biased pile of garbage it always was.

I think, since Wes Streeting has reportedly indicated that they will extend the ban on puberty blockers, it's only right to post.
 
The guidance was written after an incident in which a trans man who was unknowingly pregnant had a CT scan, and tells staff to be inclusive of transgender, non-binary and intersex patients by not making assumptions about people.
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Poor governance at Mermaids amounted to mismanagement, inquiry reveals
In a report published today (Thursday 24 October 2024), the Charity Commission concludes that over several years, trans youth charity Mermaids was not governed to the standards it expects.
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The inquiry also found the purpose of the information about puberty blockers published on the charity’s website was unclear. Charities are by law required to ensure that information provided on an education basis is accurate, evidence-based and balanced. The inquiry provided statutory advice on this matter, which the trustees have since acted on.
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...ids-amounted-to-mismanagement-inquiry-reveals
 
The health secretary confirmed his belief that sex is biological, according to the “Darlington Five” nurses, who handed in a 48,000-name petition at No 10. It called for party leaders to “stand up for women” to ensure they had access to single-sex changing rooms and lavatories.
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Bethany Hutchison, Lisa Lockey, Annice Grundy, Tracey Hooper and Joanne Bradbury are suing the NHS trust for allowing a colleague who was born male to use the female changing room at Darlington Memorial Hospital.
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Well im sure there are a few loonies who belief sex is subjective, but confirming his belief that sex is biological is the most uncontroversial statement ever.
 
Transphobia
Trump won me over when he talked about the Sex of humanity. Only two sex and that's male or female you're either that or you're mentally Ill.

Anyone who disagrees with that can get feck for all I care.
 
izak said:
Trump won me over when he talked about the Sex of humanity. Only two sex and that's male or female you're either that or you're mentally Ill.

Anyone who disagrees with that can get feck for all I care.
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I look forward to seeing how Trump will make trans people go away through policy.
 
izak said:
Trump won me over when he talked about the Sex of humanity. Only two sex and that's male or female you're either that or you're mentally Ill.

Anyone who disagrees with that can get feck for all I care.
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So people who are born with both sets of reproductive organs are mentally ill in your infinite wisdom ?
 
I think rather than piling on, it would be better to just try to unpick it. It's a great example of how conservatism does things.

It makes the world simpler by erasing the grey and making things black and white. Intersex people don't exist, trans people are crazy (despite existing since the dawn of time as seen in dispersed cultures throughout the globe), etc.

It allows the creation of new boogeymen to punch down on, usually because the person themselves feels undervalued and like they're at the bottom of the totem pole, so putting someone else there makes their lot in life seem better. You can't do that with race, or sexual preference, or disability, or religion nowadays, so trans folk it is.

The left just attacking those that disagree as transphobes and racists and x-ists doesn't really help the situation, it just entrenches the lines further. Hopefully one day we can understand the reasons why people want to punch down and remove those factors, I have to believe they're not inherent in humanity.
 
izak said:
Trump won me over when he talked about the Sex of humanity. Only two sex and that's male or female you're either that or you're mentally Ill.

Anyone who disagrees with that can get feck for all I care.
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Is that really the big problem in the world today? You’d be willing to sacrifice everything else just for this culture war debate.
 
The Firestarter said:
So people who are born with both sets of reproductive organs are mentally ill in your infinite wisdom ?
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Well in my life time I've never come across that, is it scientifically proven that from birth a baby had the female organ and the male organ?
 
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