Open is for everyone
Transgender Athletes
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I’m guessing not. Because nobody involved wants to be called a transphobe. Do you see why slinging that accusation around so lightly might be problematic?
There isn't a high number of transgender athletes, so how do you expect it to ever happen?
What do you mean?
I don't remember the details. I'm open to that suggestion, make it happen and make it work. Until then, don't exclude anyone.
Well yeah. I'm just saying that an "Open" and "Female" categories are fundamentally no different from "Men" and "Women" as it has existed for decades, other than the labels. From the perspective of the trans woman athlete, it solves nothing. They want to compete with the biological women, because that is part of validating their identity as women.
And I don't have the answer either. I'm just saying that "Open" and "Female" is a non-solution.
That's what we have been all saying this last few hours. One open, one female sex. Have you been arguing against something no one said/suggested?
Disco.
What is this imaginary sport you're thinking of that has more transgender women than man athletes?
Let's keep it realistic, that simply doesn't happen.
I like to think I’m extremely liberal and as left leaning and progressive as you can be, especially on social issues, but I really don’t think there’s an easy and fair solution to this area.
The poster didn't say that, did they?
Then they need to find a way of validating their identity as a woman that doesn’t involve competing against them in competitive sports. Which must be possible. Sports are supposed to be fun and fair, not an endorsement of your chosen gender.
Some women might call your position misogynistic, so while you're not being transphobic, you might be leaning into that instead.
Biological women would have the option to compete in the Open category, so that possibility still exists.
In school context. You have met teenagers right? No boy will want to compete against a girl.
Not to mention you're telling young girls they are different and the school doesn't accept who they are.
Adult athletes may have the maturity to deal with these complexities. For teenage girls, this would be abuse in my view.
But their goal has no place in sport. And female athletes shouldn't be sanctioned for a goal that has nothing to do with sport.
I'm all for validating transgender people's identities but it shouldn't be at the expense of someone else.
What are you on about? I'm saying the same as others. A competition in which male athletes and transwomen compete.
Of course there isn't. It's such a difficult topic and it's why calling everyone a transphobe that wants to protect women's sports isn't helping any, like @maniak Is doing
It's a fair point, the open solution gets you back to square one. There is no solution that will keep both sides happy, so either women or transwomen will feel screwed over.
Saying that, I do find the concern strange in certain sports, eg darts, which was back in the news on this again yesterday.
British female darts star Deta Hedman forfeits ANOTHER tournament as she refuses to face a transgender player... one week after she called for a 'fair and level playing field' in the sport
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/d...ek-called-fair-level-playing-field-sport.htmlI appreciate how you got to this position and I think you're concerned with fairness and being an ally to a marginalised community.
I have to ask, why does 50% of the population have to be ignored and forced to cater to the wishes of a tiny minority that come exclusively from the other 50% of the population?
Secondly, if a trans athlete wishes to play sports, why can they not play in the group they used to play with?
Genuine questions.
I'm sure many trans women would welcome an honest discussion about organizing such an event, like the cyclist I mentioned before. This has to be done with the transgender athlete community, not by a group of man, like these things are often done.
As for the slinging, I did it to someone who was literally advocating for exclusion. I think it was a pretty fair use of the term.
Indeed, it’s unnecessarily reductive and doesn’t help anyone.
On a school level? Not possible. Transgender girls must compete with other women.
On a professional level? Try to concentrate the events and make the more regular, pay the trips of athletes who don't have local competition. I don't know, I mean, you're the one suggesting it.
I didn't see the logic in their post
I'm saying I'm skeptical that can work. Until it does work in a effective way, with healthy competition for transgender women, I don't think talking about exclusion is an option.
What makes it impossible? And why is it a must to sanction female athletes?
I agree.
Would anyone realistically ever choose that though?
I generally agree. I'm just pointing out that the "Open" category solution is not at all some kind of silver bullet to this question. It won't satisfy one of the parties here, and will likely be perceived as just excluding as what we currently have.
Help me here, why is the bolded part important?
Maniaks post? Sorry,.he was replying to my post so I'm just checking
If I misinterpreted it, explain. He said man had to compete with transgender women because there was no male competition. Is this a thing?
Well, some do.
It's no exclusion though. It's not perfect don't get me.wrong,.but it's not exclusion.
One of those guysmManiaks post? Sorry,.he was replying to my post so I'm just checking
Yeah, you'll have to untie that pretzel for me.
I've asked for examples of this working. No one has provided one. So I am open to the possibility but I'll need to see it to believe it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? How do you not see that some people might think that when your default stance is to put females athletes at a disadvantage without seemingly a 2nd thought?
Have you read andy's posts? Literally saying young girls should be excluded from sports because they are transgender. Are definitions not a thing anymore?
No one knows it itl work but it's worth a go to protect the sporing fairness for female athletes which has to be the main consideration here, many people think
Your concern for trans people, admirable as it is, is leading you to ignore the concerns of cis women.
Your wish to use their sport to enable to meet their needs while ignoring the needs of cus women might make you seem like you don't care about cis women or value their input.
I've read them in a sporting context yes. If he wants exclusion in other contexts have at it but I don't think.its fair to.label him or anyone a transphobe (from.what I've seen) in this thread just because their default stance is to protect female athletes competitiveness