Transgender Athletes

Carolina Red said:
Don’t try that shit. You are calling people who have a legitimate disagreement with you on scientific grounds transphobic because you don’t like what they’re saying. It’s simple as.
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Carolina Red. I know what you're about too. No surprise here.
 
Shamwow said:
Why don't you take the piss out of my stroke again.
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I have no idea what your stroke is like dear boy. Mine were Freestyle and Butterfly. Useless in Breaststroke due to a screw kick.
 
oates said:
I have no idea what your stroke is like dear boy. Mine were Freestyle and Butterfly. Useless in Breaststroke due to a screw kick.
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Again I dearly hope you never have one because you wouldn't be taking the piss if you did.
 
P-Ro said:
Leave it out mate. He once had a stroke.
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Strokes are horrific- I've seen firsthand the devastating impact they can have and am sorry to hear that @Shamwow had to go through that, particularly at a young age.
I don't understand his belligerent dismissal of cis women's rights or what they want though. He's a bloke talking about equality while disregarding half the human race.
 
Shamwow said:
Again I dearly hope you never have one because you wouldn't be taking the piss if you did.
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As I said, we all have problems, I don't particularly want to be a sad sack by listing mine.
 
Shamwow said:
It's curious what some people get wound up at though, and what they don't get wound up at.
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Everyone is getting wound up at you calling them bigots.

Your attacking their character, what do you expect
 
Shamwow said:
Carolina Red. I know what you're about too. No surprise here.
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Yeah. I’m about maintaining fairness in sport.

I don’t give one good god damn what sexuality you are, what gender you live life as, etc. But fairness in sports should be maintained, especially for women’s sports.
 
oates said:
As I said, we all have problems, I don't particularly want to be a sad sack by listing mine.
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And I wouldn't mock you for them or standby while someone else does. That's the difference between us.
 
Pretty sure the majority of trans people. The vast majority in fact. Would realise the sensible choice is obviously for trans athletes to participate in their birth gender sports.
 
Jippy said:
Strokes are horrific- I've seen firsthand the devastating impact they can have and am sorry to hear that @Shamwow had to go through that, particularly at a young age.
I don't understand his belligerent dismissal of cis women's rights or what they want though. He's a bloke talking about equality while disregarding half the human race.
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How would he react if somebody called him a misogynist?
 
arnie_ni said:
Everyone is getting wound up at you calling them bigots.

Your attacking their character, what do you expect
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For them to challenge me on that? And not use my medical history as piss take material? I know one is easier and doesn't require actual introspection but I'd prefer the other.
 
Shamwow said:
And I wouldn't mock you for them or standby while someone else does. That's the difference between us.
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I don't feel I've set out to mock you but this all goes back to your comment about children needing to learn a lesson by coming second. I challenged you on that and then you said you'd had a stroke so never got the chance to find out. Do we all need to bring up our backgrounds to justify not knowing what we are talking about or does an opinion backed with evidence and knowledge do the trick most of the time?
 
Jippy said:
Strokes are horrific- I've seen firsthand the devastating impact they can have and am sorry to hear that @Shamwow had to go through that, particularly at a young age.
I don't understand his belligerent dismissal of cis women's rights or what they want though. He's a bloke talking about equality while disregarding half the human race.
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I'm sharing all this with my partner, who is a woman so I'm not exactly disregarding women entirely here. But I know that is the standard retort.
 
oates said:
I don't feel I've set out to mock you but this all goes back to your comment about children needing to learn a lesson by coming second. I challenged you on that and then you said you'd had a stroke so never got the chance to find out. Do we all need to bring up our backgrounds to justify not knowing what we are talking about or does an opinion backed with evidence and knowledge do the trick most of the time?
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I mean you were asking my about my background so why would you expect me to not bring it up?
 
VorZakone said:
How would he react if somebody called him a misogynist?
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It seems you're either a transphobe or a misogynist, depending on which side of the debate you land.

God forbid it's recognised as a complex issue where no outcome can please all parties.
 
Shamwow said:
For them to challenge me on that? And not use my medical history as piss take material? I know one is easier and doesn't require actual introspection but I'd prefer the other.
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For what it's worth i think the wanking comment was out of line. I also feel you were trying to guilt trip the posters by mentioning your unfortunate incident at such a age. Please note thats only how i felt at the first instance of reading it, it however didnt warrant the blind comment. Didnt think that was right. My Grandmother has had a stroke right in front of me, wouldnt wish that on anyone or make fun of it.
 
ChaddyP said:
For what it's worth i think the wanking comment was out of line. I also feel you were trying to guilt trip the posters by mentioning your unfortunate incident at such a age. Please note thats only how i felt at the first instance of reading it, it however didnt warrant the blind comment. Didnt think that was right. My Grandmother has had a stroke right in front of me, wouldnt wish that on anyone or make fun of it.
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I was responding to a post that was trying to guilt trip me. I just did a better job because my story wasn't one of privelige.
 
Shamwow said:
I mean you were asking my about my background so why would you expect me to not bring it up?
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I didn't ask you for your background health issues, I responded to this post below...

Shamwow said:
Again, I could turn that around on you and ask is the opposite situation not even more harsh. Those kids sound pretty lucky in the first place to be honest. Coming second might do them some good.
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....with this

oates said:
I suppose you are going to surprise me and tell me that you gave up virtually all of your free time as a child, teenager and young adult to train for a competitive sport.
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And btw, kids aren't lucky if they have caring parents trying to help them reach their potentials, that's the way it is supposed to be.
 
oates said:
I didn't ask you for your background health issues, I responded to this post below...



....with this




And btw, kids aren't lucky if they have caring parents trying to help them reach their potentials, that's the way it is supposed to be.
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Sorry for giving context to your question.

Kids are lucky if they get life the way it is supposed to be. That is an unfortunate fact.
 
oates said:
I didn't ask you for your background health issues, I responded to this post below...



....with this




And btw, kids aren't lucky if they have caring parents trying to help them reach their potentials, that's the way it is supposed to be.
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where i am from this is definitely luck, its also how its supposed be yet not the case in most homes.
 
Shamwow said:
I'm sharing all this with my partner, who is a woman so I'm not exactly disregarding women entirely here. But I know that is the standard retort.
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I have a trans person in my extended family so I'm not totally ignorant of the kind of challenges she's faced.

I just think you'r sacrificing fairness for half the population for inclusion for a small minority. You can have genuine pushback on that without it being down to bigotry. Neither route is fair but favouring women born male over cis women in a world full of female oppression feels the least fair option.
 
Jippy said:
I have a trans person in my extended family so I'm not totally ignorant of the kind of challenges she's faced.

I just think you'r sacrificing fairness for half the population for inclusion for a small minority. You can have genuine pushback on that without it being down to bigotry. Neither route is fair but favouring women born male over cis women in a world full of female oppression feels the least fair option.
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I didn't realise 100% of biological women compete in sport. I always thought elite athletes were a tiny minority of people. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Shamwow said:
Sorry for giving context to your question.

Kids are lucky if they get life the way it is supposed to be. That is an unfortunate fact.
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Your choice. I suppose I should avoid asking you any questions in future just to make sure I don't receive totally irrelevant context. We all have problems.

I asked you with specific reference to sports what your knowledge was, not a health reference.

I didn't call you a wanker and no, kids aren't lucky to have caring parents, when you have children, caring for them is what parents set out to do. ffs.
 
Jippy said:
I have a trans person in my extended family so I'm not totally ignorant of the kind of challenges she's faced.

I just think you'r sacrificing fairness for half the population for inclusion for a small minority. You can have genuine pushback on that without it being down to bigotry. Neither route is fair but favouring women born male over cis women in a world full of female oppression feels the least fair option.
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Not everyone who disagrees on the sport issue is transphobic and it is complex which was the point of my original post to Alex who seemed to have broken it down to just compete in your biological category. But there is definitely some transphobia being exhibited in this thread and you'd have to be blind not to see it.
 
oates said:
Your choice. I suppose I should avoid asking you any questions in future just to make sure I don't receive totally irrelevant context. We all have problems.

I asked you with specific reference to sports what your knowledge was, not a health reference.

I didn't call you a wanker and no, kids aren't lucky to have caring parents, when you have children, caring for them is what parents set out to do. ffs.
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Why does irrelevant context upset you so much?

Why are you getting upset at the suggestion that many children don't get the childhood they deserve? It's true.
 
Shamwow said:
Why does irrelevant context upset you so much?

Why are you getting upset at the suggestion that many children don't get the childhood they deserve? It's true.
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Wow! What Whataboutism!

I'm the one who is getting upset?

Believe me Sausage, you are entertaining but not worth getting upset about.
 
Alex99 said:
Shamwow thinks what is fair for cis women is immaterial and inconsequential though, so it's clear how he's reached his position.
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Winning is immaterial. Taking part is what counts right?
 
oates said:
Wow! What Whataboutism!

I'm the one who is getting upset?

Believe me Sausage, you are entertaining but not worth getting upset about.
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You put ffs at the end of your post. What was that for?
 
Jippy said:
It seems you're either a transphobe or a misogynist, depending on which side of the debate you land.

God forbid it's recognised as a complex issue where no outcome can please all parties.
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I dont think its that complex, if you are born a guy you compete in mens sports, if you are born a woman you compete in womens sports.
Its unfair for guys to transition and then want to compete with the ladies.
 
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