You can follow the discussion between myself and oates if you like. It’s literally only 3 posts between us.
Transgender Athletes
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You can follow the discussion between myself and oates if you like. It’s literally only 3 posts between us.
1. Yes
2. While I consider All women to be women it isn't my decision to make.
3. Same as for 2
Some women may take the view that a trans woman should have transitioned to a certain extent, this isn't my decision to answer for.
Personally I'm happy for any gender to use male bathrooms and male changing rooms, I doubt I'll be seeing any combination I've not seen before or feel threatened by, however women have expressed concern regarding males calling themselves trans-females but who are in fact not, I will not impose my will on any woman (All women are women).
What any of this has to do with your deliberate agenda of calling anyone who doesn't agree with you as regards Sports, transphobic, is beyond me.
If Hubbard's best was 340 then she'd be among the favorites to win, but obviously not guaranteed to win when another athlete has just done 335 and is extremely stable. So I'd take issue such statements there as well. If she regularly did 400+ then, yes, she'd be pretty much guaranteed to win barring injury or DQ, but even is she was guaranteed to win it still wouldn't be true to say that trans people are guaranteed to win, because normally they don't.
You are permitted to believe whatever you like, you don't even have to ask for my permission.
The discussion in which you repeatedly assert the same thing over and over with no proof, refuse to even acknowledge anything presented to you that is remotely contrary to what you've said, and quickly revert to calling people transphobes for not blindly agreeing with you?
So you agree that there is a a potential issue there to be discussed?
Discuss away, but not with me.
Why do you keep getting involved if you don't want to be part of the discussion?
You’ll have to forgive me if I can’t find this supposed instance where I called people transphobes. It’s almost like you think it’s in the post you just quoted.
Thanks for that cop out of an answer, which kinda proves my point. If you truly believe trans women are women, and trans women themselves want to use the bathroom of their identified gender, and the law in fact permits this, then the answers to 2 and 3 should be pretty straight forward.
I've been involved in the parts I wanted to be involved in, and not in the ones I don't.
You can read the thread title.
Well of course now you are being offensive whilst I have been honest.
And you still have not provided any proof of anyone discussing this subject being transphobic, which as far as I am concerned should have been your last opportunity.
Anyone being disingenuous in the manner which you are being should have been thread-banned by now by modmins and I'll report any similar further posts you make.
No the ableism came from the disgusting response I got from revealing that I had a stroke when I was young which stopped me from having the priviliged life of a young athlete being fully supported in their goals and dreams by their financially capable family. Apparently I should feel sorry for people like that if they don't get a gold medal. I'd be happy with just qualifying.
I'm not labeling everyone that but people who say transwomen are just men who want to become women or similar are definite transphobes and there is a clear element of fearmongering which is obviously a red flag when talking about any minority.
He's definitely sympathetic to transphobic views from that post.
I don't want to be rude but is it that simple?
A lot of times these days folk want black and white answers to everything but for me it's not that simple. And yeah I will a knowledge that maybe it is me who is the issue, but I'm trying to be honest not "phobic" of any kind.
My ex's cousin lives with a transgender man. I get on well enough with him and I feel often I can be more honest with him than with folk who are not transgender themselves.
Ex's cousin had a relationship with him whilst he was a woman and before he transitioned. Still not fully there. The cousin was lesbian and wouldn't have been interested in a man prior to this relationship. The relationship was a lesbian relationship and had he transitioned before they met there possibly wouldn't have been a relationship.
Why do I mention this? Basically your first question. Are trans women women? On the face if it I would say yes definitely. However on closer inspection would I date a transgender woman? Would another on here? If not why? Is it because despite saying yes to your question they don't fully accept?
Similarly with changing rooms. On the face if it yes. But the cousins other half didn't change with me and my lads. Similarly I don't know how I would feel if a person identified as a woman but hadn't transitioned and having certain body parts intact changed in a changing room with my daughters.
Am I a bad person? Am I transphobic?
The point I'm trying to make is life isn't black and white.
Reported.
You're showing sympathy to well documented transphobic fear mongering about bathrooms so report away. You don't need to tell me that you reported me for it to count though.
My girlfriend is asleep now and I'm still wound up, so I'm as done as Oates was which is about medium rare.
I personally don't see it as simply a choice like you do, I think that negates a massive lived experience and the fact that you think they should be punished for it by not being able to compete in sports alongside other women is what concerned me.
Lets not forget that you started with the disengenuous "you must not care about biological women at all then" and supporting ViM's vile post about me. So don't act like youre perfect here.
I'm always honest about my actions, particularly in this case where a discussion is being bogged down by constant accusations without foundations while posters who have a lot of empathy are being turned off the topic by posters such as yourself and @Septic simply because you don't feel your every dictat is agreed with.
I don't care what you think about my sympathies because I know that I view all women as women, I simply recognise that there are issues that it is not my place to demand how they are solved, however you continue to spoil any free discussion on this thread.
Appreciate your candour in the whole post but I feel strongly about this question. There are way more women I would not date than women I would date and yet I still view them all as women. I'm sure that wasn't what you were getting at but do you see my point?
Thats why I'm saying you are sympathetic to views because you literally are showing sympathy towards them.
What?
I don't think you are going to succeed in bullying anyone to your views on a thread with strong and fair minded posters but you do continue to deliberately spoil the thread for those wishing to join and maybe be a part of solution making while recognising the issues.
I won't accept your personal allegations because you are merely parroting the same thing over and over without any proof. I have stated honestly that I see all women as being women, at the same time I will not impose my views on women and that is empathy for all women, not what you accuse me of.
Again, I've reported your post.
I was going to caveat you but you hadn't posted that much, even though your argument was ridiculous trying to guilt trip me about some hypothetical kid who has had a great childhood from everything you said.
When did I say you shouldn't expect equality? Fairness is a tricky issue because life is fundamentally not fair and there is no perfect fairness in sport already but I want all women to have equality (if not slightly more to be honest) and that includes trans women. Does it for you?
I tried to join the thread, got called a misogynist, got shamed for being disabled by multiple people. Got told I was having a mental breakdown. Did you report any of them? I assume not as you would have told them.
You make a post explicitly saying that you are sympathetic to certain well documented transphobic arguments about bathrooms so I feel fair in pointing it out.
Sorry that was my autocorrect. Meant to say mostly right.
Lome I told you my autocorrect did it.
Sure it did.
Personally I didn't disagree with anything said regarding your 'context'. I'm afraid I have to wonder myself about your state of mind but I can't speak to that by merely reading your posts.
I have not 'made a post explicitly saying that I am sympathetic to certain well documented transphobic arguments about bathrooms', I've stated my own opinion.
I feel fair in pointing out that I have reported your post.
I've changed it now. What could I have meant anyway, it wouldn't even make sense.
Sorry what?
What did you mean by that paragraph?
That you agree that I've been personally attacked multiple times about my physical and mental health as well as being called a misogynist which as it is a form of bigot I should be really upset about and reporting?
Or that you are sympathetic to those posts?
What, with all the accusations you’re throwing out tonight? Sure it wouldn’t.
Are you dealing with the personal attacks aimed at me?
No. Nor am I dealing the the reports about you. I’m an active participant in this thread with responses back and forth with you, therefore I have to recuse myself.
I feel like it's been spoiled for me to be honest. I don't see anyone else having to deal with bigotry directed at them, being egged on by the likes of you. Ableism is bigotry and the usual suspects Im not surprised at but I always thought you were alright.
Thank feck.
Big wipe of the brow after that “mixed race” post, eh?
I mean, especially right after you said “I know what you’re about”…