Transfer Tweets - Manchester United - 2023/24

[Red00012]

I do like the fact we're being tough in valuations rather than just selling players desperately. However, it doesn't seem like interest for our players is abundant and so the interested parties (i.e. West Ham) could easily call our bluff and then we're left with players we don't really want and would be unable to get in anyone else we might want like Amrabat and Todibo. It's a risky strategy, unless maybe we're expecting the Saudi clubs to come in for these players late in the window (or late in theirs, which finishes a bit later than ours, I believe). The other possibility I'm wondering is whether we're deliberately keeping some players (especially Maguire and potentially Sancho could come into it) because we're planning to use them as makeweights in a late, blockbuster Harry Kane deal.

The thing is Maguire and McTominay are not up for sale but they’ll sell if they get the required value. If not they as they will be used next season whereas Fred and Donny have been told they are not part of ETH’s plans next season I’d imagine .

 

[Baxquux]

I do like the fact we're being tough in valuations rather than just selling players desperately. However, it doesn't seem like interest for our players is abundant and so the interested parties (i.e. West Ham) could easily call our bluff and then we're left with players we don't really want and would be unable to get in anyone else we might want like Amrabat and Todibo. It's a risky strategy, unless maybe we're expecting the Saudi clubs to come in for these players late in the window (or late in theirs, which finishes a bit later than ours, I believe). The other possibility I'm wondering is whether we're deliberately keeping some players (especially Maguire and potentially Sancho could come into it) because we're planning to use them as makeweights in a late, blockbuster Harry Kane deal.

Sancho would make more sense -i ca understand not letting him go unless a good offer comes in, given he might be a useful squad option, if an overpriced one, and could play a part in a genuine p/e deal. I don't think Spurs are desperate for that kind of player right now - he could replace Son longer-term, but probably not especially well - and the wages would be an issue, but hypothetically it could happen.

No-one knows 100% but I feel like posters are overvaluing players like Maguire because they overestimate how receptive other clubs are to taking them on - a lower-waged Maguire who hasn't been persuaded that he's a better player than he is, might appeal to a mid-table side, but right now the expectations/demands from the player side make deals difficult to pull off. You don't need to be incredibly fast to be top-class as a defender- Licha isn't Kyle Walker - but Maguire gets caught on the turn far too easily and undone by fleet-footed players in general. McT is essentially JJ Shelvey level or Harrison Reed ( the profiles aren't the same- its more the baseline or footballing applied 'G') - not bad players, and with one or two clear strengths, but not players who should expect much game time at a top six side: people just have a distorted view because McT's been regularly starting at a prestige club (more than Shelvey did at Liverpool, and a weaker Liverpool side overall at that) and been overly praised by a couple of managers...

 

[golden_blunder]

It's largely Woodward's fault (or via him, the ownership) for burdening us with nigh unsellable players, given the wages and contract extensions; hence I've personally never had an issue with getting these players out on the cheap in a squad restructuring. The only complaints have been with (a) over-valuing players who've shown themselves continually unsuitable and (b) mismanaging the sale of young players. In the latter case, this usually means we haven't properly used the loan system to trial them and put them in the shop window then sell quickly at their 'peak' price once we've hade a decision that they're not likely to be first-team level any time soon. City have the advantage of academy reputation plus (widely alleged) shady practices and former employees strategically placed in other clubs development and acquisition wings.... but even so, they're selling players at similar career stages for 10X what we get (or more, on average it's probably close to 12-14x)

And that should tell you that it’s not the norm, and therefore we shouldn’t use for comparison purposes

 

[golden_blunder]

McT is akin to the level of Shelvey. I’ve heard it all now

 

[matherto]

McT is akin to the level of Shelvey. I’ve heard it all now

I mean, at least Shelvey had an eye for a pass.

 

[SirScholes]

Us fans may want him gone, but the club's position is clearly that we're perfectly happy to keep him as a squad option, but if he wants to leave and we get an acceptable bid we're open to letting him go. Which is the only sensible position to take unless you want to get fleeced.

Not really we are looking to strengthen midfield, so I don’t think we are happy to have him

 

[redcucumber]

I mean, at least Shelvey had an eye for a pass.

And was pretty useless at everything else.

 

[Baxquux]

And that should tell you that it’s not the norm, and therefore we shouldn’t use for comparison purposes

Ok, but Liverpool have also done much better than us with these kinds of sales though, even if the ratios are smaller. The disparity shouldn't be that huge, even with City's underhanded tactics and using handily placed 'ex-employee' contacts at other clubs...

 

[the_cliff]

Not really we are looking to strengthen midfield, so I don’t think we are happy to have him

Amrabat is a VDB/Fred replacement.

We still don't know if Mctominay will end up being replaced or not.

 

[Baxquux]

I mean, at least Shelvey had an eye for a pass.

Yeah, Shelvey was being compared to Gerrard early on in his Liverpool career. Not as a 16 year old, but as a first team squad player. Bigger teams can carry players and make them look disproportionately adequate for large amounts of time, until , that is, they come up against rivals with more technical players and better coached. Even then, McT, like Shelvey spraying long passes to help his team break, has his own range of tools which allowed him to do Ok in certain games against a more dominant side which refuses to be pragmatic (in McT's case, under Oleball counterpunching against City after soaking up pressure). But it's not sustainable. It wasn't even consistent across Ole's reign and set up against top sides...

 

[Stobzilla]

Ok, but Liverpool have also done much better than us with these kinds of sales though, even if the ratios are smaller. The disparity shouldn't be that huge, even with City's underhanded tactics and using handily placed 'ex-employee' contacts at other clubs...

Mainoo and Amrabat will replace McTominay, Fred and VdB.

 

[Baxquux]

Mainoo and Amrabat will replace McTominay, Fred and VdB.

I hope so - not sure how that fits into the discussion about successfully selling former academy players though? Who was the last one we got decent money for without their having appeared regularly in the first team - Garner maybe? City still would have got a few more million for him, maybe Liverpool too, but it wasn't a terrible sale. On the whole though, we've been missing out on a range of sales to help stack up our budget and support FFP,. 25m for Henderson a couple of years back, not selling Tuanzebe for 10m or so at various points, ending up with so little for Januzaj in the end (again, look at Liverpool getting serious money for Ibe, Brewster, and so forth) , getting sub 1m figures rather than say, 4-5m for Zidane more recently etc...

 

[croadyman]

Mainoo and Amrabat will replace McTominay, Fred and VdB.

Surely we get some proper movement on the last two before this week is out

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[Stobzilla]

I hope so - not sure how that fits into the discussion about successfully selling former academy players though?

I quoted the wrong post.

 

[philippexyz]

Just take the £30m for Maguire and £35m for McTominay and be done with it. Use that money to sign Amrabat + another centreback. Then, we'll have a pretty solid squad, capable of going toe to toe with Arsenal and Liverpool at least(City is still probably too ahead).

 

[DatIrishFella]

Please Moyesy. Get this over the line!!!!

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[golden_blunder]

Ok, but Liverpool have also done much better than us with these kinds of sales though, even if the ratios are smaller. The disparity shouldn't be that huge, even with City's underhanded tactics and using handily placed 'ex-employee' contacts at other clubs...

You’re still banging on about city yet every man and his dog knows that they are using underhand means

what are these great sales of youth talent that Liverpool have been involved in?

 

[Asger]

You’re still banging on about city yet every man and his dog knows that they are using underhand means

what are these great sales of youth talent that Liverpool have been involved in?

Sterling 60M
Solanke 21M
N. Williams 20M
Ibe 18M
H. Wilson 14M

 

[Baxquux]

You’re still banging on about city yet every man and his dog knows that they are using underhand means

what are these great sales of youth talent that Liverpool have been involved in?

Brewster for 24, Jordan Ibe for 15, even Kevin Stewart for 8m (compare to what we got Zidane), Danny Ward as 3rd choice keeper at best going for close to 13m, Hoever for 14 with no appearances outside of maybe 1-2 league cup, i'm sure there are more, but that's a 2 minute google: below that, a bunch of u23 players going for 4m here and there, whose equivalents in terms of profile we normally sell for 750k...

[Edit; see above for more. Even Nico W and Wilson probably both went for 2x what we would sell for]

 

[Devil_forever]

You’re still banging on about city yet every man and his dog knows that they are using underhand means

what are these great sales of youth talent that Liverpool have been involved in?

Do you think the likes of Burnley and Southampton are being funnelled money by city’s owners for them to keep paying premium amounts for their youngsters? How many clubs do you think are involved in this conspiracy?

 

[SirScholes]

Amrabat is a VDB/Fred replacement.

We still don't know if Mctominay will end up being replaced or not.

Nah mainoo and amrabat replace all 3

 

[the_cliff]

Nah mainoo and amrabat replace all 3

I'd take that but we have been linked to other midfielders recently (Goretzka, Tyler Adams, Onana (Everton one).

Whether they are alternatives to Amrabat or in addition to Amrabat remains to be seen but my point was we don't exactly know the managers plans, maybe he sees Mctominay as a key member of the squad and the reason why we want 45 million for him is because ETH would want a replacement if we do choose to sell him.

Personally I'd be happy to keep Hannibal and Mainoo and not sign an additional midfielder to replace Mctominay.

EDIT: Just seen this maybe this is the reason why we're keeping Hannibal.

 

[Bastian]

I'd take that but we have been linked to other midfielders recently (Goretzka, Tyler Adams, Onana (Everton one).

Whether they are alternatives to Amrabat or in addition to Amrabat remains to be seen but my point was we don't exactly know the managers plans, maybe he sees Mctominay as a key member of the squad and the reason why we want 45 million for him is because ETH would want a replacement if we do choose to sell him.

Personally I'd be happy to keep Hannibal and Mainoo and not sign an additional midfielder to replace Mctominay.

EDIT: Just seen this maybe this is the reason why we're keeping Hannibal.

Thank feck.

 

[r0663664]

Maybe ETH decided to keep all ammunition for Kane in a last min bid.

 

[golden_blunder]

Sterling 60M
Solanke 21M
N. Williams 20M
Ibe 18M
H. Wilson 14M

As I thought people would do - refer to sales from 5 years ago. Has it happened since? No, they’ve been quietly shipping young ones out in the same manner as us

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Striker is our weakest department by a long way even if we sell Mctominay, Fred & VDB I still think Mount, Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen, Hannibal, Mainoo & co are stronger than Hojlund & Martial for the striking department, so many decent options even if we don't go for Kane such as Vlahovic, Orban, Toney etc

 

[golden_blunder]

Do you think the likes of Burnley and Southampton are being funnelled money by city’s owners for them to keep paying premium amounts for their youngsters? How many clubs do you think are involved in this conspiracy?

Southampton have staff who used to work for city. Would i be surprised to hear that money is changing hands in illogical ways? No, there are many cases that look illogical in football recently, whether it’s Barca, Juve, city or anyone else, there are lots of funny deals going through the books

 

[golden_blunder]

Brewster for 24, Jordan Ibe for 15, even Kevin Stewart for 8m (compare to what we got Zidane), Danny Ward as 3rd choice keeper at best going for close to 13m, Hoever for 14 with no appearances outside of maybe 1-2 league cup, i'm sure there are more, but that's a 2 minute google: below that, a bunch of u23 players going for 4m here and there, whose equivalents in terms of profile we normally sell for 750k...

[Edit; see above for more. Even Nico W and Wilson probably both went for 2x what we would sell for]

Again, all from 5 years ago.

besides, look back at the history of United. You will find Ferguson saying that they deliberately do not price players out of the market, particularly young players. It’s how we have always done things. But at least we are smart enough now to be adding clauses including % of sell ons. I think we are being fair

 

[Asger]

As I thought people would do - refer to sales from 5 years ago. Has it happened since? No, they’ve been quietly shipping young ones out in the same manner as us

But our young ones are going for free or 1m pounds or so. Thats the difference. We are even struggling to get a 20m fee for Henderson!

 

[mazhar13]

Tier 1:


The renewal will also include an increase on his current "£100k/week" salary.

 

[Baxquux]

Again, all from 5 years ago.

besides, look back at the history of United. You will find Ferguson saying that they deliberately do not price players out of the market, particularly young players. It’s how we have always done things. But at least we are smart enough now to be adding clauses including % of sell ons. I think we are being fair

Well, 3 years ago, in some cases 2 years ago: they're also continuing to buy more effectively in the youth market, based upon the way former Fulham youngsters- Elliott in particular - and Scottish league types like Doak- seem to be coming along, which also points to continued disparities in how well u23 recruitment and sales are functioning. Obviously this isn't cut and dried- hence Garnacho - but we're still lagging behind based on current evidence.

I remember the SAF quotes- sure, young players shouldn't be kept at the club if there's not much chance of their breaking through, but we still ought to hold people responsible for transfers accountable for securing good value deals. Maybe this changes with ETH being in post longer and helping shape the recruitment and sales processes, as well as hopeful new ownership. But it's certainly not 'best in class' right now, and it's not much good hiding behind City's skullduggery when there are clearly processes in-house that could use improvement.

 

[Judas]

AWB getting a new deal baffles me a little bit.

 

[Baxquux]

Tier 1:


The renewal will also include an increase on his current "£100k/week" salary.

Again, is this really necessary? Like, by all means keep him as a 1st team squad option, but we reward players for suddenly displaying some 'competence' in core skills (or attitude in other cases) so easily with these contracts that it's difficult to extricate them from if form goes downhill....

 

[DutchSerb]

Tier 1:


The renewal will also include an increase on his current "£100k/week" salary.

Not a big fan of this. Hoping we'll upgrade at RB next summer now that most of the gaps are filled. I'm not sold on both AWB or Dalot and giving them both bigger contracts makes them tougher to move off from.

 

[Withnail]

Tier 1:


The renewal will also include an increase on his current "£100k/week" salary.

Not sure how I feel about this. He was still out of position a lot last season when people were saying he was much improved.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Tier 1:


The renewal will also include an increase on his current "£100k/week" salary.

That's the kind of dumb decision that will most likely come back to haunt us. Why do we need to keep improving every single deal? It's not like he'll get a better offer elsewhere. 100K is already really good money this will only cause us trouble when/if we decide to sell him.

 

[Baxquux]

Decisions like Wan-Bissaka renewal (of course not confirmed yet) are just another indicator of why we should continue to question the hiring, retention and sales part of our squad management, despite everyone assuring us that its rosy, the right people are all in charge, that they're master negotiators with good instincts who definitely won't miscalculate by leaving us with overpaid squad detritus for the sake of a couple of million right now in transfer fees...

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Personally prefer AWB to Dalot, but don't understand the decision to renew both of them. Ideally one would be sold and the other would be kept as backup to a better player.