Transfer Tweets - Manchester United - 2022/23 | Follow the OP rules and check the quality of your sources before posting. STAY ON TOPIC!

[The Corinthian]

Antony's transfer fee needs to be explained somewhat -

1) The reason it is so high is that Ajax have already lost 5 first teamers this transfer window (Mazraoui, Gravenberch, Haller, Martinez and Tagliafico) - as the team is being stripped out it's obvious that this stage in the window, the 'value' for Ajax would be significantly higher than if they were only losing 1-2 players overall.

2) If you consider the market rate for young-ish wide forwards / wingers / attackers over the last few seasons, we've already seen Richarlison move for over £50m (+ £10m in add ons), Raphinha move for £55m, Sancho last season for £72m, Havertz to Chelsea for £72m, Pulisic for £58m, Isak £59m, Grealish for £100m. So we know the approximate starting figure would be north of £55m. The selling clubs in most of these instances are clubs of at the same stature in the world game as Ajax (i.e. non Super League). The figure quoted for Gordon is around £60m, so this should tell you all you need to know about where the market is now.

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

 

[JuriM]

Antony's transfer fee needs to be explained somewhat -

1) The reason it is so high is that Ajax have already lost 5 first teamers this transfer window (Mazraoui, Gravenberch, Haller, Martinez and Tagliafico) - as the team is being stripped out it's obvious that this stage in the window, the 'value' for Ajax would be significantly higher than if they were only losing 1-2 players overall.

2) If you consider the market rate for young-ish wide forwards / wingers / attackers over the last few seasons, we've already seen Richarlison move for over £50m (+ £10m in add ons), Raphinha move for £55m, Sancho last season for £72m, Havertz to Chelsea for £72m, Pulisic for £58m, Isak £59m, Grealish for £100m. So we know the approximate starting figure would be north of £55m. The selling clubs in most of these instances are clubs of at the same stature in the world game as Ajax (i.e. non Super League). The figure quoted for Gordon is around £60m, so this should tell you all you need to know about where the market is now.

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

Some sense finally!

The market for proven or talent is cray cray and there is absolutely no certainty that we could find someone close to his baggage and ability to cost us less, ever.

 

[SER19]

Antony's transfer fee needs to be explained somewhat -

1) The reason it is so high is that Ajax have already lost 5 first teamers this transfer window (Mazraoui, Gravenberch, Haller, Martinez and Tagliafico) - as the team is being stripped out it's obvious that this stage in the window, the 'value' for Ajax would be significantly higher than if they were only losing 1-2 players overall.

2) If you consider the market rate for young-ish wide forwards / wingers / attackers over the last few seasons, we've already seen Richarlison move for over £50m (+ £10m in add ons), Raphinha move for £55m, Sancho last season for £72m, Havertz to Chelsea for £72m, Pulisic for £58m, Isak £59m, Grealish for £100m. So we know the approximate starting figure would be north of £55m. The selling clubs in most of these instances are clubs of at the same stature in the world game as Ajax (i.e. non Super League). The figure quoted for Gordon is around £60m, so this should tell you all you need to know about where the market is now.

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

Good Post, his age is important too. At only 22 if he works out we get many many years and if not then there's still some resale potential.

I really like the look of him and as you say, exact position we need meaning martial rashford and Ronaldo probably enough for this season for front spot

 

[red_de_pologne]

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

I agree with most of your reasoning, but you're exaggerating a bit.

The problem I have with the fee is it's a result of our lack of strategic planning, going from bidding for Arnautovic to splashing 80M on Antony. He was available for considerably less earlier in the window. In June we probably could've got him and Tielemans or a backup GK for the price we're paying for him now.

 

[Lynty]

Antony's transfer fee needs to be explained somewhat -

1) The reason it is so high is that Ajax have already lost 5 first teamers this transfer window (Mazraoui, Gravenberch, Haller, Martinez and Tagliafico) - as the team is being stripped out it's obvious that this stage in the window, the 'value' for Ajax would be significantly higher than if they were only losing 1-2 players overall.

2) If you consider the market rate for young-ish wide forwards / wingers / attackers over the last few seasons, we've already seen Richarlison move for over £50m (+ £10m in add ons), Raphinha move for £55m, Sancho last season for £72m, Havertz to Chelsea for £72m, Pulisic for £58m, Isak £59m, Grealish for £100m. So we know the approximate starting figure would be north of £55m. The selling clubs in most of these instances are clubs of at the same stature in the world game as Ajax (i.e. non Super League). The figure quoted for Gordon is around £60m, so this should tell you all you need to know about where the market is now.

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

£80m for Antony is within reason - albiet on the high side.

But £60m for Gordon is bat shit crazy.

 

[The White Pele]

Antony's transfer fee needs to be explained somewhat -

1) The reason it is so high is that Ajax have already lost 5 first teamers this transfer window (Mazraoui, Gravenberch, Haller, Martinez and Tagliafico) - as the team is being stripped out it's obvious that this stage in the window, the 'value' for Ajax would be significantly higher than if they were only losing 1-2 players overall.

2) If you consider the market rate for young-ish wide forwards / wingers / attackers over the last few seasons, we've already seen Richarlison move for over £50m (+ £10m in add ons), Raphinha move for £55m, Sancho last season for £72m, Havertz to Chelsea for £72m, Pulisic for £58m, Isak £59m, Grealish for £100m. So we know the approximate starting figure would be north of £55m. The selling clubs in most of these instances are clubs of at the same stature in the world game as Ajax (i.e. non Super League). The figure quoted for Gordon is around £60m, so this should tell you all you need to know about where the market is now.

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

Good post. I think the other factor is that he is a left-footed right winger. I don’t think there are many top players that fit this description whereas I think there are a lot more players of a certain level that can offer something cutting in from the left.

We ourselves have Rashford, Sancho and Elanga who can all do this.

When you try and think of alternative options to Antony…obviously Raphinha moved this summer so was an option. Mahrez, Salah and Saka are unattainable. You don’t get far down the list before you get to the likes of Ziyech, Sane, Asensio who could perhaps be seen as cast-offs on big contracts.

With that in mind you could certainly make a reasonable case for Antony being the best attainable player for us in this position, despite being relatively unproven still at the highest level.

I do feel like it is expensive but with all of the context you can understand it.

Kulusevski was a great deal for Spurs by the way.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Antony's transfer fee needs to be explained somewhat -

1) The reason it is so high is that Ajax have already lost 5 first teamers this transfer window (Mazraoui, Gravenberch, Haller, Martinez and Tagliafico) - as the team is being stripped out it's obvious that this stage in the window, the 'value' for Ajax would be significantly higher than if they were only losing 1-2 players overall.

2) If you consider the market rate for young-ish wide forwards / wingers / attackers over the last few seasons, we've already seen Richarlison move for over £50m (+ £10m in add ons), Raphinha move for £55m, Sancho last season for £72m, Havertz to Chelsea for £72m, Pulisic for £58m, Isak £59m, Grealish for £100m. So we know the approximate starting figure would be north of £55m. The selling clubs in most of these instances are clubs of at the same stature in the world game as Ajax (i.e. non Super League). The figure quoted for Gordon is around £60m, so this should tell you all you need to know about where the market is now.

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

Brilliant post.

 

[lysglimt]

I kinda like the idea of Antony and Sancho on the wings.....potentially the most exciting wingpair we have had since Ronaldo/Nani

 

[Levi1]

This is what happens when your club is said to be "relaxed" about everything every day in the first weeks of the transfer market.

 

[The Corinthian]

I agree with most of your reasoning, but you're exaggerating a bit.

The problem I have with the fee is it's a result of our lack of strategic planning, going from bidding for Arnautovic to splashing 80M on Antony. He was available for considerably less earlier in the window. In June we probably could've got him and Tielemans or a backup GK for the price we're paying for him now.

Who would you say is a better right winger than Antony in Europe? Off the top of my head Salah and Mahrez are the two stand out talents, but Antony falls into that bracket below with the likes of Sane, Raphinha etc.

Agree with the lack of strategic planning - it's par for the course with the way the club has been run over the last decade. EtH identified Antony at the start of the window, where he would have been cheaper but we end up rushing things through and overpaying as always.

 

[Utd heap]

This is what happens when your club is said to be "relaxed" about everything every day in the first weeks of the transfer market.

You sign loads of good players?

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[christinaa]

You sign loads of good players?

You also miss out on loads of good players.

 

[Idxomer]

Yeah, right.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Yeah, sure....

 

[Utd heap]

You also miss out on loads of good players.

We are going to end up with 3/4/5 new first team options. It's been at worst a solid window.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Who would you say is a better right winger than Antony in Europe?

Excluding the likes of Salah, Mahrez, Mane

Gnabry
Saka
Sancho
Diaby
Raphinha
Chiesa

I don't know I guess you could argue he makes TOP10 but that's debatable I'm probably missing a few obvious ones.

And all of the above shown it at a higher level.

 

[The Corinthian]

Excluding the likes of Salah, Mahrez, Mane

Gnabry
Saka
Sancho
Diaby
Raphinha
Chiesa

I don't know I guess you could argue he makes TOP10 but that's debatable I'm probably missing a few obvious ones

So Mane for me is a LW/central striker.

The rest of your list I wouldn’t say are clearly ahead of Antony in terms of talent or application. He certainly belongs in that group. As I said, Mahrez and Salah are the stand outs, with the rest you and I posted making up that secondary tier.

 

[red_de_pologne]

So Mane for me is a LW/central striker.

The rest of your list I wouldn’t say are clearly ahead of Antony in terms of talent or application. He certainly belongs in that group. As I said, Mahrez and Salah are the stand outs, with the rest you and I posted making up that secondary tier.

I meant Sane not Mane sorry

 

[hellhunter]

So Mane for me is a LW/central striker.

The rest of your list I wouldn’t say are clearly ahead of Antony in terms of talent or application. He certainly belongs in that group. As I said, Mahrez and Salah are the stand outs, with the rest you and I posted making up that secondary tier.

Every one of them has shown considerably and consistently more than Antony

 

[red_de_pologne]

Every one of them has shown considerably and consistently more than Antony

This.. he's promising but not in the same category

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Excluding the likes of Salah, Mahrez, Mane

Gnabry
Saka
Sancho
Diaby
Raphinha
Chiesa

I don't know I guess you could argue he makes TOP10 but that's debatable I'm probably missing a few obvious ones.

And all of the above shown it at a higher level.

Raphinha hasn't shown much. How many of those are attainable ? Just Diaby and Chiesa? And Chiesa isn't even left footed which our manager wants.

 

[hellhunter]

Raphinha hasn't shown much. How many of those are attainable ? Just Diaby and Chiesa? And Chiesa isn't even left footed which our manager wants.

Raphinha is the closest to Antony, still showed it in the PL not in Holland and cost considerably less than Antony will. Using him as a comparison doesn't show the Antony deal in the favourable light you (and/or others) think it does

 

[red_de_pologne]

Raphinha hasn't shown much. How many of those are attainable ? Just Diaby and Chiesa? And Chiesa isn't even left footed which our manager wants.

That wasn't the question. It was who in the world is a better RW than Antony, and I think there's quite a few.

 

[Red00012]

I don’t care what we pay for Antony. He’s proving he wants to really play for us and that’s what’s good to see.
Would be good to see Antony, a centre mid and a backup keeper come in.

You will be excited too if you were told your weekly wages would multiply x 5

 

[SER19]

We are going to end up with 3/4/5 new first team options. It's been at worst a solid window.

At the expense of the opening 2 games. The end results will hopefully be good signings but there's no escaping that it was poorly managed. We miss top 4 by 3 points and we'll be regretting it

 

[The Corinthian]

Every one of them has shown considerably and consistently more than Antony

20/21 season & 21/22 season:

G&A:
Saka 7&10 / 12&7 = 36 goal contributions
Sancho 16&20 / 5&3 = 44 goal contributions
Raphinha 8&11 / 11&3 = 33 goal contributions
Diaby 10&15 / 17&14 = 56 goal contributions
Chiesa 11&9 / 15&11 = 46 goal contributions
Antony 10&10 / 12&10 = 42 goal contributions

They all seem to be in the same bracket output wise. You'd say the only outlier is Sancho in the 20/21 season and Sancho again in the 21/22 season.

Edit: Conclusion is that Antony is definitely in that bracket of player that sits behind Mahrez and Salah (which was my original point).

 

[hellhunter]

20/21 season & 21/22 season:

G&A:
Saka 7&10 / 12&7 = 36 goal contributions
Sancho 16&20 / 5&3 = 44 goal contributions
Raphinha 8&11 / 11&3 = 33 goal contributions
Diaby 10&15 / 17&14 = 56 goal contributions
Chiesa 11&9 / 15&11 = 46 goal contributions
Antony 10&10 / 12&10 = 42 goal contributions

They all seem to be in the same bracket output wise. You'd say the only outlier is Sancho in the 20/21 season and Sancho again in the 21/22 season.

None of them played in the Eredivise, where guys like Memphis and Bergwijn are tearing teams apart. Still pleasantly surprised how his stats stack up here, mind

 

[Posh Red]

None of them played in the Eredivise, where guys like Memphis and Bergwijn are tearing teams apart. Still pleasantly surprised how his stats stack up here, mind

How to their stats compare in UCL/EL?

 

[justsomebloke]

Antony's transfer fee needs to be explained somewhat -

1) The reason it is so high is that Ajax have already lost 5 first teamers this transfer window (Mazraoui, Gravenberch, Haller, Martinez and Tagliafico) - as the team is being stripped out it's obvious that this stage in the window, the 'value' for Ajax would be significantly higher than if they were only losing 1-2 players overall.

2) If you consider the market rate for young-ish wide forwards / wingers / attackers over the last few seasons, we've already seen Richarlison move for over £50m (+ £10m in add ons), Raphinha move for £55m, Sancho last season for £72m, Havertz to Chelsea for £72m, Pulisic for £58m, Isak £59m, Grealish for £100m. So we know the approximate starting figure would be north of £55m. The selling clubs in most of these instances are clubs of at the same stature in the world game as Ajax (i.e. non Super League). The figure quoted for Gordon is around £60m, so this should tell you all you need to know about where the market is now.

3) The figure looks to be €94 (~£80m) - if you look at the 'value' to us - we're getting a left footed right winger, a position we've neglected for years. Not only that, we're getting what is touted to be one of the best in Europe in his position, and who has an excellent relationship with out current manager. Antony has a skillset and profile that our other players don't have. We need to back EtH if we want to see a successful Man Utd again.

I totally get why Ajax is putting such a high pricetag at this moment in time. However, that doesn't make an argument for how it's good business for us to pay it. In fact, it means that he's overpriced due to the particular circumstances of the moment.

I think what Gordon's valuation tells you is where the market is right now for good young forwards whose clubs are attempting to price them out of a transfer. Looking at the other names and comparing that with what we're reading about a total cost approaching 100m Euros, it's hard not to ask if that's maybe a bit steep.

 

[STaphouse]

Raphinha is the closest to Antony, still showed it in the PL not in Holland and cost considerably less than Antony will. Using him as a comparison doesn't show the Antony deal in the favourable light you (and/or others) think it does

He also only wanted to go to Barcelona though, so would never have been attainable.

 

[The Corinthian]

None of them played in the Eredivise, where guys like Memphis and Bergwijn are tearing teams apart. Still pleasantly surprised how his stats stack up here, mind

I don't think that is as material as you (and others) think it is - some purchases from the Dutch league have killed it in others.

 

[yumtum]

Sí, seguro.

 

[The Corinthian]

I totally get why Ajax is putting such a high pricetag at this moment in time. However, that doesn't make an argument for how it's good business for us to pay it. In fact, it means that he's overpriced due to the particular circumstances of the moment.

I think what Gordon's valuation tells you is where the market is right now for good young forwards whose clubs are attempting to price them out of a transfer. Looking at the other names and comparing that with what we're reading about a total cost approaching 100m Euros, it's hard not to ask if that's maybe a bit steep.

How rarely do players move for their actual worth though? We buy English players for over their worth due to an English premium tax. It's just how the football transfer market works. Players at the end of a window will invariably be more expensive than at the start.

On the business aspect of things, I'm a big believer in EtH, and if he says he wants him we should try our best to get him.

 

[Utd heap]

At the expense of the opening 2 games. The end results will hopefully be good signings but there's no escaping that it was poorly managed. We miss top 4 by 3 points and we'll be regretting it

Two matches! Get the right lads in for the next 3/4 years. Well worth a two match wait.

 

[justsomebloke]

How rarely do players move for their actual worth though? We buy English players for over their worth due to an English premium tax. It's just how the football transfer market works. Players at the end of a window will invariably be more expensive than at the start.

On the business aspect of things, I'm a big believer in EtH, and if he says he wants him we should try our best to get him.

Of course, you're right there is no metaphysical absolute worth of a player - to the club that owns him, his price is whatever sum exceeds his perceived value to the club, to the buying market his value is the highest amount that some club is actually prepared to pay for him. When I'm talking about overpriced, I primarily have in mind a pricetag that so heavily reflects the fact the club who owns him desperately do not want to sell him right now. He would have cost significantly less early in the summer, and he will also probably cost significantly less next summer, for that reason alone.

I'm not saying it can't nevertheless be the right decision, but I do think it sets quite a high bar in terms of how much more he brings than more affordable alternatives, and how badly we need him right now.

 

[sparx99]

Raphinha is the closest to Antony, still showed it in the PL not in Holland and cost considerably less than Antony will. Using him as a comparison doesn't show the Antony deal in the favourable light you (and/or others) think it does

Raphinha is 3 years older though. You tend to pay more for younger talents these days.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Raphinha is the closest to Antony, still showed it in the PL not in Holland and cost considerably less than Antony will. Using him as a comparison doesn't show the Antony deal in the favourable light you (and/or others) think it does

As if "showed it in the PL" automatically means you're automatically better. Raphinha is incredibly overrated here just because he played in a very attacking team and did something fancy every now and then. Antony looks a bit less explosive but a more gifted player to me.

 

[justsomebloke]

As if "showed it in the PL" automatically means you're automatically better. Raphinha is incredibly overrated here just because he played in a very attacking team and did something fancy every now and then. Antony looks a bit less explosive but a more gifted player to me.

At least it automatically means you've already proven what you can deliver in the PL, as opposed to proven what you can deliver at a lower level, which may or may not translate to the PL. So, more risk and uncertainty.

Of course, all of this only goes to what you can read out of basic stats, which I would imagine is not a big part of clubs decision-making anyway.

 

[2E_MUFC]

You will be excited too if you were told your weekly wages would multiply x 5

Too be fair he’s basically gone on strike. It won’t just be to do with money.