Toni Kroos | Madridista

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Yes, and no other players of his category are expected to essentially play on their own in central midfield and perform every role simultaneously. Pirlo and Alonso are always guarded by two energetic, skilled midfielders ahead of them, giving them passing options and support.

It is frankly a disgrace how Carrick has been managed. We have been hoping for an adequate midfield partner or two for him for such a long time, that it now appears that Carrick himself is imminently in need of replacing.

Kroos would fill and perhaps surpass Carrick's role in terms of being a distributor from midfield, but I do not believe him to have the natural defensive capabilities of Carrick.

Still a strange situation if Kroos joins now. Why take the step down from Bayern? It seems money is our main allure for players now, rather than our prestige and competitiveness. At least we are no longer burdened by Moyes.


I don't agree that United are a 'step down' from Bayern. We can't offer CL football next season, but, by most criteria, Manchester United are a bigger club than Bayern Munich.
 
Plus that Steve Bruce and Robbo duvet cover I used to have. If that doesn't tell you about the scale of the club, nothing does.
 
Plus that Steve Bruce and Robbo duvet cover I used to have. If that doesn't tell you about the scale of the club, nothing does.
:lol:

The only thing that is against us when arguing if we are still one of the biggest clubs in the world is that we can't offer CL football next season. Apart from that we still make up 1 of the big 4 clubs in the world.
Damn you Moyes
 
Definitely not Ducker/Ogden/Taylor level. Maybe slightly better than someone like Jamie Jackson in terms of reliability?

I would say considerably worse. Jamie Jackson is the Manchester football correspondent for a credible national newspaper that used to be based in Manchester.

Miguel Delaney is Irish, with no obvious connections to the club at all.
 
Global fan base, marketing and sponsors and all that with the premier league being a more popular league. Nobody is flaming we're better, but you could argue we are bigger worldwide.

Yes, the measure of a club's greatness is popularity in Thailand/Hong Kong/Malaysia and Singapore.

That's what European football is all about.
 
I would say considerably worse. Jamie Jackson is the Manchester football correspondent for a credible national newspaper that used to be based in Manchester.

Miguel Delaney is Irish, with no obvious connections to the club at all.

Nah, I would say Miguel is better than Jamie, who is way too hit and miss. Delaney has pretty sources at the club, I think he's close to some of the coaches. I remember reading that he had drink or two with Fergie a while back. Delaney moved to London a while too, so he's building up some good sources.
 
You won the champions league. Big bucks.
So making money by selling shirts in Asia counts towards being a big club, but making money by winning the biggest trophy in club football doesn't? Interesting :lol:.
 
Pretty sure our commercial revenue and our overall revenue was bigger last season, according to the deloitte money league.

We're just about to move on from our four-year-old shirt sponsorship deal and our thirteen-year-old kit provider deal. On those two core 'commercial revenue' incomes, you're competing with United's 2010 and 2001 level.

The former new deal has already been negotiated and is massively record-breaking, and by all reports our new deal with Nike is going to be even more so, possibly up to double the current biggest deal in the world, Madrid's. The PL TV deal has also just taken a big boost. In a year's time, our commercial revenue will be well out in front.

Of course, I don't think money has much to do with 'big club' stuff. Just pointing out a fallacy. For me, the whole idea of a 'big club' is way too subjective to be worth discussing.
 
Definitely not Ducker/Ogden/Taylor level. Maybe slightly better than someone like Jamie Jackson in terms of reliability?
That's not hard I think. Jamie Jackson is proving himself to be the typical clueless journo in the past few days. Bring back Ogden!
 
I would say considerably worse. Jamie Jackson is the Manchester football correspondent for a credible national newspaper that used to be based in Manchester.

Miguel Delaney is Irish, with no obvious connections to the club at all.

Jackson seems to post an awful lot of transfer stories though, which makes his hit rate fairly low. He's linked us with all of Shaw, Hummels, Kroos, Robben, Fabregas, Muller, Reus, Benzema, Managala, and Dante in recent times.

Delaney is based in London but I'm pretty sure he does have a few contacts at United, a few of the other journalists have mentioned it before.
 
The best thing about this thread is to see how the opinion of him changes between "slow/immobile, useless, no defense, will be overrun, side-way passer, adds almost nothing" (worse than Fellaini) and "one-man-army, that scores/assists/defends and controls the game on a world class level" (Scholes 2.0) every 10 pages.
 
The best thing about this thread is to see how the opinion of him changes between "slow/immobile, useless, no defense, will be overrun, side-way passer, adds almost nothing" (worse than Fellaini) and "one-man-army, that scores/assists/defends and controls the game on a world class level" (Scholes 2.0) every 10 pages.
You can prove all those things with youtube clips though ;).
 
Jackson seems to post an awful lot of transfer stories though, which makes his hit rate fairly low. He's linked us with all of Shaw, Hummels, Kroos, Robben, Fabregas, Muller, Reus, Benzema, Managala, and Dante in recent times.

Delaney is based in London but I'm pretty sure he does have a few contacts at United, a few of the other journalists have mentioned it before.

To some extent its not the journalists' fault. They get pressured by their editors and they get fed by the clubs and that can sometimes lead to silly looking pieces.

Manchester United are a massive club and usually, unlike the farce we witnessed last season, big clubs will not have a single target for any one position. It'll be more of a case that our scouts will be looking at players across the world and relying what they are seeing and lists will be made for every position. That way if your main target turns you down you just go to the next name on the list, instead of end up floundering and making a panic bid for Fellaini...

So, hypothetically speaking not that I'm ITK, but a journalist goes to Ed Woodward and says who are you after. Woodward will probably say something like we're looking for a midfielder. The journalist, wanting a scoop, will then say something like 'C'mon give me a name, just something to get the fans excited'. So Woodward will say as you know we've had a look at Kroos and we're still interested. The journalist will probably say but what if you dont get Kroos. Woodward will then say well we're tracking targets all over the world. The journalist might then drop a name and hope for a nod or a wink, or if Woodward is feeling particularly friendly he might suggest another player we're looking at like say Fabregas. The conversation, if its warm and Woodward trusts the journo, might move on to other areas. The journo might say well Rio and Vidic are off do you think you need a centre back? Woodward might say well we're looking at players there too and the same thing might happen in terms of names dropped.

Journo goes home with a list of names and his editor says what have you got. Journo says they're still after Kroos and Fabregas. Editor says thats not new news we've run that story loads we cant do it again unless the signing is imminent, editor says what else have you got? Journo runs through a list of names. Editor says we'll use all the names and run it under the banner of United's wishlist for the summer. Bang. New story. The story of course is a bit OTT. United probably wont sign everyone on that list. But it makes the paper look ITK if the transfers start coming off and the fans go wild on the speculation and generate advertising revenue for the papers by clicking the story.
 
The thing about the Kroos scenario which is different from Fab last year, is that Fab said plenty of times he was happy to stay at Barca and didn't want to leave etc. Kroos has said nothing of the sort.
 
Yes, the measure of a club's greatness is popularity in Thailand/Hong Kong/Malaysia and Singapore.

That's what European football is all about.
I'm not saying we're historically a bigger club, just globally we're arguably bigger with our fan base and marketing, which is what the guy was asking.
 
Has Kroos said anything lately about playing at Bayern etc, not the transfer but more to do with Bayern?
 
Pretty sure our commercial revenue and our overall revenue was bigger last season, according to the deloitte money league.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League#2012.E2.80.9313

/edit:
I don't care what club is the bigger club though. Not getting involved in that discussion.

I did say commercial attraction rather than revenue, by which I meant the kind of worldwide commercial potential which the Glazers recognized. Bayern's commercial revenues are indeed very large, but, if I may say so, rather Germanic, and based on Bayern's dominant position in German football.

United's revenues are understated by comparison with Bayern's by virtue of farming out some of the business to Nike and accepting a profit related fee. The large revenues of these activities don't appear on United's books. Taking this into account, United make substantially more money than Bayern.

United's profits are easily the highest in world football.

Setting all that debating stuff aside, I'd rather not get into a Bayern v United d**k measuring contest; but I didn't want to let johnmufc's assertion that a Kroos move from Bayern to United would be a step down go unchallenged. If you agree that the move would be more or less sideways, we can let it lie.
 
Kroos is asked to play conservatively on the ball as the deepest midfielder. He`d be given a different role here, I would imagine, and would be more positive.
 
I'm not saying we're historically a bigger club, just globally we're arguably bigger with our fan base and marketing, which is what the guy was asking.

Oh. If the discussion was only about marketing and revenues, then OK. But that is quite a different thing from a club's true stature in European football.
 
Yes, the measure of a club's greatness is popularity in Thailand/Hong Kong/Malaysia and Singapore.

That's what European football is all about.

Commercially, yes. And football clubs are for-profit corporations after all.

You've got to love how Asian fans are used as a stick to beat the big clubs with yet every big club is marketing for and capitalising on their support.
 
Commercially, yes. And football clubs are for-profit corporations after all.

You've got to love how Asian fans are used as a stick to beat the big clubs with yet every big club is marketing for and capitalising on their support.

Football clubs play for glory and trophies. They are not HSBC or Nestle. I am sure that Altetico fans/players/manager are happier right now, than any other club that sells lots of shirts in Jakarta.

And go back to your point, Asian fans are having a pernicious effect on European football. They are "illiterate" in football terms.
 
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